The Tendulkar Fatigue Syndrome

[Malcolm Merlyn]

This thread deserves to be preserved in the hall of fameof ICF...........Dhondy,Prof,Wicky,Bumper BOss,Rajiv,Marirs all arguing and presenting their views in one thread.didnt see in my 1 year on icf dont know when it happened last.As they say Nothing is impossible for GOD(pun intended)

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[thevortex]

Marris' was a post that provided interesting reading. Enjoyed it. But I do not quite agree with Tendulkar-fascination being equated to some age related condition :). I am sure many of us know 40 or 50 year olds who are equally passionate about Tendulkar. In my own family there are people who have grown up listening to commentary over the radio - the three W's of West Indies cricket, Gavaskar's exploits, Richards' sledgehammer innings etc. Even these people find it in their heart to acknowledge Tendulkar as a genuine great. And yes these people too find their moods affected by the rise and fall of Tendulkar. Albeit not to the extent of switching off their television sets when Sachin falls - which I think is quite sacrilegious because it means that you are not quite supporting the Indian team as a whole. And I am sure the Tendulkar double century set the pulses of even these people too racing. Forget the statistics. It takes a hard mind to not acknowledge the shadow of Tendulkar on the Indian psyche. That shadow - it just is. It is not something that Tendulkar meticulously built up for his benefit nor is it something built by his adorers and desperate fans. It is a body of work unique for its craftsmanship and overreaching spirit. And it deserves special mention in the annals of cricket. It is that simple. Personally I dont agree with Tendulkar being called 'God'. It then follows that I do not agree with all the attendant eulogizing on those lines (Cricket is religion. Tendulkar is God). But genuine praise is something that the man deserves. And even with the eulogizing it is hard to not view it all without a smile. But this can differ from person to person, surely. People, in my experience, go against the flow for one of two things. 1) They genuinely believe that the masses are wrong and what they themselves are doing is the right thing. And they find the courage in their hearts to stand up and walk in the opposite direction pushing against the crowd. 2) They dont really care or know what they actually believe. But they go the opposite direction because it makes them stand out in the crowd. I certainly hope that this effort falls under the first category. My problem with the first couple of posts in this thread was not that they were deliberately irreverent. Or that it was mischievous in tone. Quite the opposite. The tone was the only aspect I enjoyed :). And it can hardly be described as a 'gentle moan' considering that these two posts spanned a total of 564 words! To me the problem lay in the way Tendulkar's single failure in a World Cup final was brought up with casual but marked derision. And then later on suggesting that Tendulkar might have walked off faking a dismissal against Shoaib Akhtar was just in bad taste. All this of a man who faced up against Waqar and Wasim as a 16 year old. Of a man who refuses to flinch in pain even when he gets hit by a fast bowler. Even now. Of a man who acquitted himself well against the present No.1 fast bowler in the world in the last series!

[rabinjackman]

Marris' was a post that provided interesting reading. Enjoyed it. But I do not quite agree with Tendulkar-fascination being equated to some age related condition :). I am sure many of us know 40 or 50 year olds who are equally passionate about Tendulkar. In my own family there are people who have grown up listening to commentary over the radio - the three W's of West Indies cricket, Gavaskar's exploits, Richards' sledgehammer innings etc. Even these people find it in their heart to acknowledge Tendulkar as a genuine great. And yes these people too find their moods affected by the rise and fall of Tendulkar. Albeit not to the extent of switching off their television sets when Sachin falls - which I think is quite sacrilegious because it means that you are not quite supporting the Indian team as a whole. And I am sure the Tendulkar double century set the pulses of even these people too racing. Forget the statistics. It takes a hard mind to not acknowledge the shadow of Tendulkar on the Indian psyche. That shadow - it just is. It is not something that Tendulkar meticulously built up for his benefit nor is it something built by his adorers and desperate fans. It is a body of work unique for its craftsmanship and overreaching spirit. And it deserves special mention in the annals of cricket. It is that simple. Personally I dont agree with Tendulkar being called 'God'. It then follows that I do not agree with all the attendant eulogizing on those lines (Cricket is religion. Tendulkar is God). But genuine praise is something that the man deserves. And even with the eulogizing it is hard to not view it all without a smile. But this can differ from person to person, surely. People, in my experience, go against the flow for one of two things. 1) They genuinely believe that the masses are wrong and what they themselves are doing is the right thing. And they find the courage in their hearts to stand up and walk in the opposite direction pushing against the crowd. 2) They dont really care or know what they actually believe. But they go the opposite direction because it makes them stand out in the crowd. I certainly hope that this effort falls under the first category. My problem with the first couple of posts in this thread was not that they were deliberately irreverent. Or that it was mischievous in tone. Quite the opposite. The tone was the only aspect I enjoyed :). And it can hardly be described as a 'gentle moan' considering that these two posts spanned a total of 564 words! To me the problem lay in the way Tendulkar's single failure in a World Cup final was brought up with casual but marked derision. And then later on suggesting that Tendulkar might have walked off faking a dismissal against Shoaib Akhtar was just in bad taste. All this of a man who faced up against Waqar and Wasim as a 16 year old. Of a man who refuses to flinch in pain even when he gets hit by a fast bowler. Even now. Of a man who acquitted himself well against the present No.1 fast bowler in the world in the last series!

:hatsoff: wonderfully written

[rabinjackman]

there is a difference between a tendulkar fan and a tendulkar fanatic.... There is a difference in a tendulkar fan's opinion/reaction and a tendulkar fanatic opinion/reaction.... By chance have you see the reaction of fans down south...fans of rajinikanth... fans of jayalalitha... they make temples in thier names... they worship the grounds these people walk on...and literaaly humllite people who talk against them... have u seen the shiv Sena / MNS brigade.... karan Johar uses the word Bombay instead of Mumbai and a riot happens..... Sachin says Mumbai si for all Indians and a riot happens... Jaya Bachcan says she is a hyderabadi.... riot occurs.... all these people are fanatics... Fanaticism is an Indian thing.... i dont understand the psychological reasoning behind this... Even Rajnikanth, Jayalalitha, kamal Hassan are looked upto as Gods... there are so many Godmen roaming about in India whose every utterance is regarded as gospel.... I wonder why Indians have an overwhelming need to look for Gods in ordinary mortals... SOmeone needs to write an article on this topic...coz i am not talented at this :(

[rabinjackman]

Case in point. A ridiculous thread: SRT vs Ponting: http://indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=210939 I dont know what the poster here is trying to say. He lists some numbers (as if you cant get this from cricinfo yourself). No conclusions, no assertions, no interpretations. 65 responses. To me this thread is a big yawner..

ahaaaaaa now i realise why i was gettin wierd responses on this thread...co they have been done a dozen times before in this site :giggle: u dont understand wat i was trying to say in the thread.....? i was going to put forward a comparison between ponting and tendulkar beased on all kinds of statsitics and come up with an all encompassing summary... but somewhere down the line i realised its a futile effort... a fan will not believe anything said against his idol... whatever the evidence / proof :D

[Rajiv]

Over the years, Sachin has been compared to everyone who was in form - one commonality is that Sachin remains there, rest of the comparisons keep changing Kinda Bored to See Pawnting now, koi naya maal pesh karo

[rabinjackman]

Over the years, Sachin has been compared to everyone who was in form - one commonality is that Sachin remains there, rest of the comparisons keep changing Kinda Bored to See Pawnting now, koi naya maal pesh karo

:giggle: sahi hai.... bradman vs ten.... lara vs ten.... kallis vs ten... viru vs ten... richards vs ten... ponting vs ten.... the list will continue :D

[Shehezaada]

Not difficult at all to get player v player stats if you are willing to spend half an hour. Over his entire career, Sachin has faced 141 deliveries from Shoaib and scored 79 runs, a SR of 56. Sehwag has played 188 deliveries off Shoaib, and scored 156 runs, a SR of 83. You'll find the same pattern with most top bowlers. Since Sehwag's debut, Sachin has faced precisely 45 deliveries from McGrath and scored 5 runs, a SR of 11.1. Sehwag has faced 156 deliveries off the same bowler and scored 98- a SR of 62.8. Player v player records are not available before mid 2000s. if one wishes, one can go back to 1999 and 2001 and find out how Sachin fared in those matches against McGrath, but I suspect it won't be a lot different. You guys didn't want to hear this, I suspect. He is a masterful batsman and picks off the weak links in the attack to score off. His record against the very best bowlers, particularly MTC, the quick ones, tells a story of survival...and waiting for the next over.

Dhondy, your taking your sample data from one series in which he was rushed back from injury and played on two juiced up tracks? Besides, we've had this debate in another thread maybe 6 months ago. In that thread, data from 1999 was available, as well as the description of commentary. Tendulkar's S/R was well below 30 against McGrath. But over 75% of the deliveries pitched outside off stump and were left well alone by Tendulkar. I don't exactly know what your getting at, or trying to prove with Sehwag. From reading your posts it doesn't seem like you've played team sports, although you have plenty of writing talent and understand cricket tactics well. It's Sehwag's role, and license, to go after McGrath or whoever at any point he wants. So when Sehwag sees McGrath pitching it outside off stump, he has no problems slashing him to the fence or going over the top of cover. He realizes he has big guns behind him, Dravid, Tendulkar are there to play the waiting game, to guide the ship. He knows this and so does Tendulkar. Tendulkar's job, when he comes in at 4, is to assess the situation and play accordingly. In the sample data you provided, Tendulkar came in at 11-2, 9-2, 38-2, and 14-2! Batsmen to come, Laxman, Kaif, Kartik. Do you really want him to bite the bait and nick McGrath through to the keeper? Or do you want him to play like Sehwag in the second innings of test matches, slam, bang, gone? Tendulkar isn't God, and he makes mistakes. What makes him special is that he learns from them. Yes, 5 off 45 balls faces isn't the greatest, even considering the situation that I described before. Never should you get into a shell because it almost ALWAYS brings your dismissal. But at the same time you can't simply go and say he picks off the other bowlers...that's ridiculous.

[thevortex]

Therein lies the problem with stats. It is like an onion. You can peel away at it all day long. :)Thanks Shehezaada for the enlightenment. I was not aware of the wickets situation that you mentioned.

[Ram]

Dhondy, your taking your sample data from one series in which he was rushed back from injury and played on two juiced up tracks? Besides, we've had this debate in another thread maybe 6 months ago. In that thread, data from 1999 was available, as well as the description of commentary. Tendulkar's S/R was well below 30 against McGrath. But over 75% of the deliveries pitched outside off stump and were left well alone by Tendulkar. I don't exactly know what your getting at, or trying to prove with Sehwag. From reading your posts it doesn't seem like you've played team sports, although you have plenty of writing talent and understand cricket tactics well. It's Sehwag's role, and license, to go after McGrath or whoever at any point he wants. So when Sehwag sees McGrath pitching it outside off stump, he has no problems slashing him to the fence or going over the top of cover. He realizes he has big guns behind him, Dravid, Tendulkar are there to play the waiting game, to guide the ship. He knows this and so does Tendulkar. Tendulkar's job, when he comes in at 4, is to assess the situation and play accordingly. In the sample data you provided, Tendulkar came in at 11-2, 9-2, 38-2, and 14-2! Batsmen to come, Laxman, Kaif, Kartik. Do you really want him to bite the bait and nick McGrath through to the keeper? Or do you want him to play like Sehwag in the second innings of test matches, slam, bang, gone? Tendulkar isn't God, and he makes mistakes. What makes him special is that he learns from them. Yes, 5 off 45 balls faces isn't the greatest, even considering the situation that I described before. Never should you get into a shell because it almost ALWAYS brings your dismissal. But at the same time you can't simply go and say he picks off the other bowlers...that's ridiculous.

Nice post man. Like you, I've always felt that mere stats without context is utterly useless, especially in a team sport like Cricket. This is not like tennis, where you can simply compare the unforced errors of the two players and put your finger on why one of them lost. Cricket is way way more complicated than that. Sure, if you have a sample size large enough over a reasonable time period, you could possibly make some vaguely accurate generalizations using the numbers alone, but most times, our fans have this tendency of picking and choosing whats stats they want to see, based on the point they're trying to make. And I think that is terrible trend that has set in recently, especially after the advent of cricinfo's stats tool. That people try to pick holes in Sachin's Resume even after 21 years of excellence (mired by a few years of relative mediocrity, I admit) is just baffling. What is the point that they're trying to make? That he does deliver as consistently as he should, in big tournament finals? Even if it was true, what about the part leading up to the finals? Did he not take them to the finals in the first place? What about giving some credit for that? Statistical tools have given the fans the chance to make inferences that was never meant to be made in the first place. I'd rather we just go back to the 90s, when we called it as we saw it, without all this numbers mumbo-jumbo.

[Gunner_Mania]

Disclaimer: Not aimed in particular towards anybody. Just to lighten up the mood a bit. I can prove anything by statistics except the truth. Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures Definition of a Statistician: A man who believes figures don't lie, but admits than under analysis some of them won't stand up either.

[EnterTheVoid]

Also the references to SRT in peoples profile pictures, their signatures, the constant praises etc get a little nauseating Not imposing my views on anyone or expecting anyone else to change theirs, but, just saying.

[Lurker]

I am fascinated and at the same time puzzled by the allegation made by Doc and Bumper that this is turning into some sort of Sachin fan club, where his praises are sung day and day out. Is there some truth in it? Possibly. At the same time, is it wrong for fans to glorify their heroes? Probably not. To really get a wholesome answer to the points raised by Doc and Bumper, we should probably recognize that fact that, demographically speaking, a vast proportion of the Indian fans who register on to ICF to become members are in the age-group of 15-25. I would venture to say that almost 85-90% of the board's members are in that age-group. You'd probably find only a handful of people on the other side of 30. Now, to the other relevant stat of the day - Sachin's career now spans 20 years and 5 months. Anybody see any co-incidence? Yes, a huge number of us, including yours truly, have grown up watching Sachin play. In fact, our first initiation to cricket was probably hearing the name Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar, which was then followed by a watching a strong dose of his exploits on the cricket field. So, it isnt any surprise that for most Indiancricketfans, Sachin is that sort of larger than life figure that transcends anything else. In short, to many of us, he was the intro, plot and climax of Indian cricket. Therefore, it should be no surprise to anyone that many of us hold him very dear to our heart. He was our first hero and still continues to be one. To some of us, he is immortal. To a lot of us, he's as flawless as a mortal can be. I might sound a bit melodramatic but, you will get a sense of how important Sachin as a persona is, if you read the accounts of someone like Holysmoke. When you get your head around what he has to say on Sachin, you really do get a sense that this is no mere fan-sportsperson relationship. It is something way way beyond that. Of course, I am not claim that every 20-something Indian fan is as passionate about Sachin, but the point still remains that, to many of his fans, Sachin is no mere sporting hero. But on the other side of the fence, are people like Doc, Bumper and Lurker. All of them are seasoned cricket followers. To them, Sachin was probably not the first thing they heard about Indian cricket, he's just another Indian player, but a very good one at that. Hence, their rigorous standards of fairness and objectivity when it comes to assessing players does not waver when studying Sachin. In short, their view of Sachin is not through a pair of glasses doped with passion and fanaticism. And you can clearly see that reflect in their posts. Not to say that they have been routinely unfairly critical of Sachin, but they're far less hesitant than others, when it comes to highlighting his foibles. I suppose that seasoned cricket followers Lurker, Doc and Bumper must reconcile to the fact that Sachin is THE most worshiped cricketer in world history and its only natural that this adulation reflects on a message board that they helped create and grow. As free-thinking men, they probably want fruitful discussion on a good variety of topics, rather than the mundane focus of the exploits one particular man. But they must accept the fact that, after all, its no sin to celebrate and venerate the career of a cricketer who has shown himself to be the Colossus among mere men. You could create a 1000 Sachin praise threads here on ICF and still that wouldnt do justice to the depth of contributions made by that man to our cricket and nation. Having said that, I do have a pet peeve to vent here. If you really like Sachin (which most of us do here), the last thing should be doing is to grab of bunch of his career numbers from the cricinfo's stats db, compare it with the same of say a Ponting or a Kallis, just to show he's better or worse. Thats not being a fan, that just playing a silly game of one-upsmanship. People who think the whole range and scope of someone's contribution on a cricket field can be fully encapsulated by a set of numbers in a database need to re-asses the way they look at sportsmen and sports. That doesnt do justice at all to the growing legacy of this fantastic cricketer. Sachin's career is legend in the works. To tear it apart and conduct visceral analysis of it using previously unseen statistical benchmarks is totally missing the point, whether you're arguing in favor of him, or against him. No cricketer's career is flawless, even the Don's. But Sachin's exploits are as close as modern-day cricketer can get, to professional excellence. The discussion should end there. And to just finish off, I think Dhondy's allegation that Sachin deliberately walked off, even though he actually didnt hit the ball against Shoaib Akhtar is a preposterous insinuation. People have said Sachin does not deliver under pressure. Others have said he plays for statistical landmarks. Heck, at one point, even I've accused of playing differently when faced with a looming landmark. There's probably a small element of truth in all of that, but to allege that Sachin simply cowered away from the crease because of he was afraid to face a bowler is something I find hard to even grasp. Would a man gripped with these insecurities and inner fears be capable of lasting 21 years in international cricket and yet be the benchmark for others to follow? I dont think so. I am disappointed that, someone like our honorable Doc has chosen to make that allegation. I can understand if the same came from a newbie member trying to seek attention, but the Doc..... Sad. Signed, Sachin Fan.

Sriram, Meanings are often lost in translation. The closest word to experience in Urdu is tajurba. Still experience and tajurba are not one and the same. Maybe what you suggest is correct. That is there is a distinct difference between members of generations at ICF. Perhaps the difference is the way the older generation treated their seniors & contemprories as compared to the younger generation today? At the height of his popularity Kapil Dev was still being criticized by likes of Nawab Pataudi without Kapil's fans going nuts about it. Pataudi had seen the world, rubbed shoulders with the best and had what can only be called as tajurba - the objectivity that kept a man a mere mortal. Do you see a difference already when objectivity of yesteryears is being challenged as being misplaced simply because fans of younger generation maybe did not see any better and to them Sachin is as flawless as can be? Is that misplaced passion or simply ignorance? I saw a mention of the age group 15-25 as the most common on ICF and to them SRT being as close to perfection as can be. Only a small caveat there. The man in question, Sachin Tendulkar himself, does not belong in that category. He is the 35-45 category. And that would make him more akin to a Dhondy, a Bumper, a Shwetabh than to a Holybaba(no offence Holy). Folks of my generation do not need to reach out to Cricinfo or Statsguru to define Sachin. We were there when he smacked Qadir for sixes and we were here when he made a double century. We were also there when Sachin was not the biggest thing in Indian cricket (it was Azharduddin if you care to know). And so it helps to keeps things in perspective for my generation. And dare I say it does for Sachin as well. For the longest time Sachin would touch the feet of his seniors on public places withour remorse. Folks ranging from Botham to Imran and Sunil Gavaskar have openly said how he still calls them as Sir. Maybe thats an old world charm borne out of older times? Without souding rude maybe 15-25 generation are more akin to a Harbhajan Singh who thinks respect is a sign of weakness and there is little else to be learnt than what he already knows? I see an uncanny, and possibly misplaced, resemblance to this thread with that other famous disussion happening these days - MF Hussain. Just like his paintings were not created today but people suddenly people critical to the extent the man was eventually kicked out of India, maybe just maybe there is a danger here that if younger posters are not cognizant they would effectively kick folks like Dhondy out with one track agenda. No I dont mean to use Dhondy as bait, I have far too much respect for the man, but there is a danger of that happening and I am sure you do know about it. Then again take it for whatever its worth, tajurba does not neccesarily mean everything said is right. Pataudi was proven to be wrong, just that kapil's fan did not ask for his head as Sachin's fan have done when Kapil recommended SRT for Bharat ratna. xxx

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Gunner_Mania]

Dont agree with this . With the exception of rule changes ' date=' the general state of cricket for different eras , player form and injuries ... stats will give you a very decent ballpark of a players worth. They are there for a reason. They are very usefull in any logical and methodical debate. For example you could blindly pick a XI based on batting and bowling avgs and you will invariably come up with a good team. The problem in our forums though is that there is very little of "logical" debate but mostly mudslinging which is where it all goes pear shaped.[/quote'] There could be two reasons a) Most people cannot make sense out of numbers. I definitely neither have the brains nor the inclination to argue my case using a set of numbers, so I tend to stay out of a discussion based on numbers but others get emotional and rise to the defence based on emotions and it all goes pear shapes. b) And this I suspect is the big problem, people use stats for their own convenience i.e. they make up their minds and then pick up stats that proves their point of view rather than looking at all thestats objectively. Bossbhai, I am sure even you will also agree though that statistics alone cannot be used as a measurement to measure a player's true greatness.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Roshanrocks]

Hi. its my first post in this forum. Sachin has been too much in the news lately, i mean wherever you go sachin will be there. on the higways.. advertising, television, in all websites...youtube... there is even an opus book being written on him. a mammoth book costing acrore each... this sachin mania will be two pronged of course. another bad series and the same people who are praising him will go after him. Sachin seems to be omnpresent. its getting a bit irritating. It does seem a phenomenon exclusive to the Indians. Discussing about one person to death-->till u find another topic to talk about. I remember A R Rahman all over the news for months for Slumdog millionaire. right from his first award for the movie right up to the Oscar and his collaboration with PCD and Delhi 6 and God knows what not.... i seem to have lost track of what i want to say, am never going to be an author anyway

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Ram]

Sriram, Meanings are often lost in translation. The closest word to experience in Urdu is tajurba. Still experience and tajurba are not one and the same. Maybe what you suggest is correct. That is there is a distinct difference between members of generations at ICF. Perhaps the difference is the way the older generation treated their seniors & contemprories as compared to the younger generation today? At the height of his popularity Kapil Dev was still being criticized by likes of Nawab Pataudi without Kapil's fans going nuts about it. Pataudi had seen the world, rubbed shoulders with the best and had what can only be called as tajurba - the objectivity that kept a man a mere mortal. Do you see a difference already when objectivity of yesteryears is being challenged as being misplaced simply because fans of younger generation maybe did not see any better and to them Sachin is as flawless as can be? Is that misplaced passion or simply ignorance? I saw a mention of the age group 15-25 as the most common on ICF and to them SRT being as close to perfection as can be. Only a small caveat there. The man in question, Sachin Tendulkar himself, does not belong in that category. He is the 35-45 category. And that would make him more akin to a Dhondy, a Bumper, a Shwetabh than to a Holybaba(no offence Holy). Folks of my generation do not need to reach out to Cricinfo or Statsguru to define Sachin. We were there when he smacked Qadir for sixes and we were here when he made a double century. We were also there when Sachin was not the biggest thing in Indian cricket (it was Azharduddin if you care to know). And so it helps to keeps things in perspective for my generation. And dare I say it does for Sachin as well. For the longest time Sachin would touch the feet of his seniors on public places withour remorse. Folks ranging from Botham to Imran and Sunil Gavaskar have openly said how he still calls them as Sir. Maybe thats an old world charm borne out of older times? Without souding rude maybe 15-25 generation are more akin to a Harbhajan Singh who thinks respect is a sign of weakness and there is little else to be learnt than what he already knows? I see an uncanny, and possibly misplaced, resemblance to this thread with that other famous disussion happening these days - MF Hussain. Just like his paintings were not created today but people suddenly people critical to the extent the man was eventually kicked out of India, maybe just maybe there is a danger here that if younger posters are not cognizant they would effectively kick folks like Dhondy out with one track agenda. No I dont mean to use Dhondy as bait, I have far too much respect for the man, but there is a danger of that happening and I am sure you do know about it. Then again take it for whatever its worth, tajurba does not neccesarily mean everything said is right. Pataudi was proven to be wrong, just that kapil's fan did not ask for his head as Sachin's fan have done when Kapil recommended SRT for Bharat ratna. xxx

Lurks, I can see where you are coming, especially reg. the experience part. I understand that you guys have sense and perspective of Indian cricket that is quite different to those who started watching the game only 10-12 years ago. I think people should be respectful of that perspective and to a large extent, I think most of us lot are. Sure, there are exceptions, as there always is, but I honestly hope the attitude of those minority do not drive a time-tested Indian fan like yourself or Bumper or Doc. But I also hope you guys understand where the 'younger' lot are coming from. A lot of us have literally been fed a staple diet of Sachin since they were two, so its only natural that some do go overboard sometimes. Hopefully, you guy take it in your stride..! :) And btw, I do appreciate the fact that you have pointed out 'I]tajurba does not neccesarily mean everything said is right'. I think many of you have wrongly written off of unfairly criticized Sachin in the past, but that is part of having different perspectives in a discussion. If everyone sang the same tune, the gathering will probably become dull.