Desi Cartman Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 NEW DELHI: New battlelines are being drawn for a spy drone versus spy drone face-off between India and Pakistan. Even as Islamabad continues to badger Washington to give it armed drones like `Predators', New Delhi is quietly working towards bolstering its fleet of reconnaissance and `killer' Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs). In the latest such contract inked with Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) a few days ago, India has ordered a few more `Heron' MALE (medium-altitude, long endurance) drones, ground control systems and data terminals for around Rs 700 crore, defence ministry sources said on Thursday. While India is currently way ahead of Pakistan in the drone race, armed UAVs in the hands of Pakistan could change the ballgame altogether. As it is, most of the US military goodies like F-16s that Pakistan is getting for the war on terror are meant more for waging conventional warfare rather than counter-terrorism. While Pakistan has been after US to get `strategic' UAVs like `Predators', the latter has so far only agreed to supply `tactical' unarmed `Shadow' drones for intelligence-gathering missions. `Predators' and `Reapers', controlled from hundreds of miles away through satellites, can unleash havoc with their `Hellfire' missiles, as is being witnessed in the ongoing American operations against Taliban in the Af-Pak region. The importance of UAVs in modern-day warfare cannot be overstated, both for their snooping as well as targeting capabilities. Indian armed forces are slowly but surely emerging as big-time drone operators, having inducted well over 100 UAVs since the 1999 Kargil conflict. These primarily include Israeli ones like Searcher-II and Heron, as also some Harpy `killer' drones designed to detect and destroy enemy radars by functioning like cruise missiles. Under the latest deal, Navy will now get two more Herons to add to its UAV fleet of eight Searcher-II and four Herons, which are being used for maritime surveillance up to 200 nautical miles. There is also the ongoing Rs 1,163 crore joint IAI-DRDO project for NRUAVs (naval rotary UAVs) or unmanned helicopters operating from warship decks for advanced ISR (intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance) missions. As reported by TOI earlier, Army is also going in for two more `troops' (8 birds each) of advanced Heron UAVs for Rs 1,118 crore after the Defence Acquisitions Council approved it in February 2009. Apart from using UAVs for spying and directing precision-guided munitions, IAF is now looking to induct Israeli Harop `killer' UAVs from 2011 onwards. Like the Harpy, Harop drones are capable of loitering over targets before they explode into them. But what makes them more advanced is that they also have electro-optical sensors to make them capable of even hitting important enemy military installations like missile sites. While Harpy and Harop are kamikaze UAVs which perish with the targets, Predators and Reapers are more like fighters since they return to their bases to get a fresh stock of missiles for new missions. The next phase will be that of full-fledged UCAVs (combat UAVs) being currently developed to replace manned fighter jets for medium and long-range conventional or nuclear bombing missions. India, on its part, has also set the indigenous ball rolling. After Nishant and Lakshya drones, DRDO is developing the `Rustom' MALE drones, with the Army keen to induct seven `troops' of them. Moreover, as reported earlier, Army also wants to induct man-portable `mini' and `micro' UAVs for short-range surveillance and NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) detection in the battlefield. Army, in fact, wants to induct these miniature spy drones right down to the battalion-level by 2017.
EnterTheVoid Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 Not the first time, Israel supplied India the UAV's used in Kargil
Clarke Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 Not the first time' date=' Israel supplied India the UAV's used in Kargil [/quote'] Whats so cool in that ? India's importing 4m Israel, not the other way :hmmmm:
EnterTheVoid Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 Whats so cool in that ? India's importing 4m Israel' date=' not the other way :hmmmm:[/quote'] Its mutual brah, works both ways. When India got help from Israel http://www.indianexpress.com/news/balloonmounted-radars-from-israel-to-help-navy-monitor-the-coastline/412943/ --- When India helped Israel http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7199736.stm http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/01/2008525141926992348.html http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/03/21/india.satellite/
Desi Cartman Posted March 26, 2010 Author Posted March 26, 2010 India & Israell have a common enemy' date=' I don't know why they did not take their expertise during 26/11. after all Israelis were feeling moral responsiblity to rescue their citizens.[/quote'] cuz that would have shown the terrorists that Indians arent capable to secure/fight these attacks on its soil. Its sad but the mofos would have killed the hostages no matter what
Desi Cartman Posted March 26, 2010 Author Posted March 26, 2010 There is a lot they can learn from joint exercises.. IMO Army knows what it needs, same way the policemen know that they cant use bandooks from 1940s in these situations but our sarkar isnt bothered about upgrade In hostage situations ( from what I have read) authorities try to delay as much as possible to tire out the terrorists. They did that .. they used the gadgets they had and were always at a disadvantage as first aim was to save the hostages and then to kill/ capture the bastards. IMO yes we were caught off guard but the police/army did whatever they could with the equipment they had. It would have been a big fuss had India accepted Israeli or American forces to run/participate an operation in India.
Clarke Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 well' date=' agreed, but it would've given us a good chance to see how it should've actually been done, some peeps might not like it, but I feel that 26/11 also exposed our inablity to handle half dozen bacha jihadis who kept things at seige for multiple days[/quote'] I'm not sure if the most elite commando units in the world would have done it differently. We're talking of 600+ rooms/suites here with the operation taking around 60 hours. If the commandos stormed the hotel the rescue would have been much quicker at the cost of large number of lives of the commandos. Check out the Moscow Theater siege of 2002 and the Beslan school hostage crisis of 2004, the elite Russian commandos could not prevent the large scale loss of innocent lives and both instances lasted more than 2 days.
Desi Cartman Posted March 26, 2010 Author Posted March 26, 2010 btw bastard kasam is claiming that he was out for a walk on a mumbai beach a week before 26-11 and was arrested then, later cops framed him and edited the pics with his face to show as if he was one of the terrorists. He claims his only crime is that he is a pakistani ... How emotional :finger:
punjabi_khota Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 Whats so cool in that ? India's importing 4m Israel' date=' not the other way :hmmmm:[/quote'] There's a reason he is called sree_israel...:hysterical: He has hebrew **** above his avatar, and has confessed to fapping to netanyahu(just once).
Clarke Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 well' date=' I wish something like a smoke bomb should be invented which would temporarily faint humans without killing them. so that the commandos could've nabbed terrorists while unconscious. I'm not sure they carried oxygen masks/cylinders with them....just my thought.[/quote'] I reckon an important criterion of such a gas is how fast the gas can act. Ideally you do not want a terrorist to know about the gas before it takes effect or else all hell will break loose as long as he/she's conscious. That might be the case why Russia ended up using the semi-poisonous gas in the Moscow theater. Coming back to the topic, isnt anyone else annoyed with the huge list of imports in defense ? Why cant we meet the majority of our needs by making world class defense equipment locally ? Forget the MRCA and fighter aircraft, the Army releases tenders for basic machine guns and assault rifles, why on earth cant we make that ? There is some hope for the future .. DRDO might just have made a world class MBT in the Arjun and the local private industry is finally being encouraged to participate.
Desi Cartman Posted March 26, 2010 Author Posted March 26, 2010 I reckon an important criterion of such a gas is how fast the gas can act. Ideally you do not want a terrorist to know about the gas before it takes effect or else all hell will break loose as long as he/she's conscious. That might be the case why Russia ended up using the semi-poisonous gas in the Moscow theater. Coming back to the topic, isnt anyone else annoyed with the huge list of imports in defense ? Why cant we meet the majority of our needs by making world class defense equipment locally ? Forget the MRCA and fighter aircraft, the Army releases tenders for basic machine guns and assault rifles, why on earth cant we make that ? There is some hope for the future .. DRDO might just have made a world class MBT in the Arjun and the local private industry is finally being encouraged to participate. We need to have an industry set up for that . Unfortunately pvt enterprise would make the cost go way up due to corruption at every level... plus govt never supported pvt companies for milatry equipment. I know of one task that army has outsourced and trust me when I tell u that from a sipahi to Cornol brigadier all get shares in cash , cars and prostitutes. Its terrible .. I have seen it from very up close and its full on ghoos khori
EnterTheVoid Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 India & Israell have a common enemy' date= I don't know why they did not take their expertise during 26/11. after all Israelis were feeling moral responsiblity to rescue their citizens.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUNN4uEHLaQ]YouTube- Inside Story -Indian/Israeli collaboration -21 Oct 07-Part 1[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyVOBoBvLZo]YouTube- Inside Story -Indian/Israeli collaboration -21 Oct 07-Part 2[/ame] India can't be seen as getting too close to Israel because of their conflict with the Palestinians. The fundamental issue is that there are two people fighting over the same stretch of land. The Jews believe they are the "chosen people" (Hebrew Jews wrote the bible) and that land was promised to the descendent's of King David', i.e. the modern day Israelites.This conflict over land is spun into a conflict between religions, Judaism and Islam. India does maintain relations with Israel, low key they may be, but military and diplomatic relations are maintained. Pakistan meanwhile is *****ing its pants. [ame=
EnterTheVoid Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 Also about UAV's, UGV's etc, currently working on a six month defense research project. :rock:
Clarke Posted March 26, 2010 Posted March 26, 2010 We need to have an industry set up for that . Unfortunately pvt enterprise would make the cost go way up due to corruption at every level... plus govt never supported pvt companies for milatry equipment. I know of one task that army has outsourced and trust me when I tell u that from a sipahi to Cornol brigadier all get shares in cash , cars and prostitutes. Its terrible .. I have seen it from very up close and its full on ghoos khori We're throwing billions every year either way on imports, might as well throw on something local and worth exporting. The culture of defense related bribes and contracts is no different from rest of the socio-economic fabric, just that it puts the very existence of the nation in jeopardy. f**kin sucks
Desi Cartman Posted March 26, 2010 Author Posted March 26, 2010 We're throwing billions every year either way on imports, might as well throw on something local and worth exporting. The culture of defense related bribes and contracts is no different from rest of the socio-economic fabric, just that it puts the very existence of the nation in jeopardy. f**kin sucks If you asking if they should , then yes .. but its not easy to set up a whole new industry & make sure there is no corruption
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