More than a third of India below poverty line now

[Clarke]

No country is as vulgar as India when it comes to flaunting wealth while the guy next to us is starving. Ambanis $2 Billion mansion overlooking slums is the sickest example. There simply is no culture of Philanthropy within our society.

i find tht utterly disgusting... im an average middle class guy.. when i goto India.. i find very sad and guilty seeing the poor people trying to meet their ends.. how can this guy built a house for 2 Billion $ and live alongside the slums.. doesnt he feel bad for the unfortunate people who r living in his neighbourhood?

But how do we fix that ? Do we tax the hell out of the billionaires ? Or is that bad if u believe the fiscal conservative pundits ?

[EnterTheVoid]

yup..one of the reasons why i dont go to India often ... You could still make a case (a very flimsy one mind you) for Ambani saying that his companies provide employment for many but what about the haram-khors like Pawar ' date= the entire Gandhi family, the Mulayams, the Lallu yadavs etc who have amassed wealth that would add up to some small countries GDP by ruthlessly pillaging the country at the expense of mostly the poor ... and do absolutely nothing to help the poor even when they can no longer become any more richer ? how can these people sleep at night? Sick ******s. :mad:

But your home is where your heart is. How long are you going to avoid and stay away ? I know what you are trying to say but its a just a sad reality of life.

[Lurker]

Dude, u understand the concept of imports and the foreign exchange that is required in that ? I am NOT talking of overall condition but the huge import bill. I thought that was simple enough to understand when i mentioned the IMF. You do remember the crisis the our western neighbors had in 2008 was about balance of payments even though their economy as such has been growing ever since Mushie took the throne ? Even the RBI recognizes the contribution of remittances to foreign exchange reserves: Invisibles, in particular, private remittances have contributed significantly to the current account. Net invisibles inflows, comprising mainly of private transfer remittances and services increased from US$ 1.6 billion in 1991-92 to US$ 89.9 billion in 2008-09. During 2009-10 (April-September), the net invisible inflows stood at US$ 40.0 billion as against US$ 48.5 billion during 2008-09 (April-September). http://rbidocs.rbi.org.in/rdocs/Publications/PDFs/HYRMF190810.pdf

Grow up......dude. This is not an economic symposium that you are talking of balance of payments here. This is a socio-economic situation, you should know the difference. At the very core of the discussion here is ordinary Indians being extremely poor thanks mainly due to lack of : a) Employment. b) Inflation. c) Housing. If you can show how NRIs have helped in any of these areas in a positive way and not only driven the cost(and hence the ever increasing gap between rich and poor) your point would be well taken. xxx

[Lurker]

yup..one of the reasons why i dont go to India often ... You could still make a case (a very flimsy one mind you) for Ambani saying that his companies provide employment for many but what about the haram-khors like Pawar ' date=' the entire Gandhi family, the Mulayams, the Lallu yadavs etc who have amassed wealth that would add up to some small countries GDP by ruthlessly pillaging the country at the expense of mostly the poor ... and do absolutely nothing to help the poor even when they can no longer become any more richer ? [b']how can these people sleep at night? Sick ******s. :mad:

Sleep at night? They would laugh their rears off before they fall asleep. Dont blame the netas if the citizens are chewtiyas. I can pull out multitude of reasons over which a Tamilian would bay for a Bihari blood. Why blame the netas when the janta is haramkhor????

[Clarke]

you cant .. this is something that has to cultivated ... people say million bad things about US but the culture of philanthropy here is something that will put anyone to shame.

Either way its redistribution of wealth .. if the rich ones wont willingly give a fraction, the govt has the ability to tax them. BTW why does no one talk about population here ? Does anyone think we can generate millions of jobs every year and feed a billion plus population ?

[Lurker]

i find tht utterly disgusting... im an average middle class guy.. when i goto India.. i find very sad and guilty seeing the poor people trying to meet their ends.. how can this guy built a house for 2 Billion $ and live alongside the slums.. doesnt he feel bad for the unfortunate people who r living in his neighbourhood?

Should he? Then what about Indians who celebrate Ambani's success as if it was their own?? Just watch how noted magazines(and I am not talking about road-chap media here), start going gaga over how 20 Indians are in Fortune 250 list. It is hilarious to see Indians fighting over Internet showing suggesting, "Hamare pass Ambani hai, Premji hai, Tata hai tumhare paas kya hai..." xxx

[Roshanrocks]

poor farmers :(( poor laborers :((

[Clarke]

Grow up......dude. This is not an economic symposium that you are talking of balance of payments here. This is a socio-economic situation, you should know the difference. At the very core of the discussion here is ordinary Indians being extremely poor thanks mainly due to lack of : a) Employment. b) Inflation. c) Housing. If you can show how NRIs have helped in any of these areas in a positive way and not only driven the cost(and hence the ever increasing gap between rich and poor) your point would be well taken. xxx

Poverty rates have been high since independence; the Poverty rate has infact gone lower over the decades. How can you blame the NRI as the main reason, its ludicrous to begin with. An NRI is just an individual who seeks a better deal like a resident Indian. What effect a few hundred thousand individuals bring to property prices all over the country is not what they're responsible for, as mentioned earlier it is the lack of urban centers that forces them to invest in what they perceive is the best deal. If you're talking of contributions, let me just state that irrespective of whatever god you believe in, you/me/everyone else on this forum worships oil. The cost of basic food (hugely dependent on oil based fertilizers and the transportation prices) and ALL other essentials are directly or indirectly proportional to oil prices. The foreign exchange that an NRI brings is immensely helpful in paying that huge import bill. I cannot substantiate how crushing the effect of high domestic oil prices would be on domestic economy and the common man. And its not like NRIs are not patriotic. They just ask for a better/safer environment to invest in. Is that effin too much to ask ? BTW do u think it is possible to generate millions of additional jobs every year ? Do u expect the NRI to invest in some corrupt and lawless areas of a backward state so that jobs are created for the population multiplying centers ? Or is it the people and the govt that need to realize that a fertility rate of anything of 2 (i'm being generous) is unsustainable and that we need atleast twice the number of very large cities to begin with ?

[Lurker]

Poverty rates have been high since independence; the Poverty rate has infact gone lower over the decades. How can you blame the NRI as the main reason, its ludicrous to begin with. An NRI is just an individual who seeks a better deal like a resident Indian. What effect a few hundred thousand individuals bring to property prices all over the country is not what they're responsible for, as mentioned earlier it is the lack of urban centers that forces them to invest in what they perceive is the best deal. If you're talking of contributions, let me just state that irrespective of whatever god you believe in, you/me/everyone else on this forum worships oil. The cost of basic food (hugely dependent on oil based fertilizers and the transportation prices) and ALL other essentials are directly or indirectly proportional to oil prices. The foreign exchange that an NRI brings is immensely helpful in paying that huge import bill. I cannot substantiate how crushing the effect of high domestic oil prices would be on domestic economy and the common man. And its not like NRIs are not patriotic. They just ask for a better/safer environment to invest in. Is that effin too much to ask ? BTW do u think it is possible to generate millions of additional jobs every year ? Do u expect the NRI to invest in some corrupt and lawless areas of a backward state so that jobs are created for the population multiplying centers ? Or is it the people and the govt that need to realize that a fertility rate of anything of 2 (i'm being generous) is unsustainable and that we need atleast twice the number of very large cities to begin with ?

Thats neither here nor there. I asked a rather straight forward question in the context of this thread. The ordinary Indians, certainly the poor ones, are suffering from inability to address basic needs: Employment Housing Inflation If you can show me how NRIs have helped the issue I can understand your criticism. Needless to say it is not very difficult to show how NRIs have effectively pushed Housing straight through the roof, and considering how Real Estate/Housing is the backbone for any economy, the rising cost has shot everything else through the roof too. By the way I am not making this thread into a NRI rant, I have clearly mentioned in my first thread on the topic fast exposing Indians as citizens of a nation as compared to selfish islands who are simply interested in themselves. That means Indians, at home and abroad. You of course concentrated on NRIs. xxx

[Guest Gunner]

Sleep at night? They would laugh their rears off before they fall asleep. Dont blame the netas if the citizens are chewtiyas. I can pull out multitude of reasons over which a Tamilian would bay for a Bihari blood. Why blame the netas when the janta is haramkhor????

Lurker, I largely understand and agree with your sentiments on this thread except for this point on tamilians. In what way do you find tamilians to be any different in their attitude to other Indians?

[Clarke]

Thats neither here nor there. I asked a rather straight forward question in the context of this thread. The ordinary Indians, certainly the poor ones, are suffering from inability to address basic needs: Employment Housing Inflation

The poverty rate is lesser than what it was earlier, isnt it ? The issues of housing and malnutrition have been the case all along and is not a recent phenomenon.

If you can show me how NRIs have helped the issue I can understand your criticism. Needless to say it is not very difficult to show how NRIs have effectively pushed Housing straight through the roof, and considering how Real Estate/Housing is the backbone for any economy, the rising cost has shot everything else through the roof too.

My criticism remains, NRIs are not responsible for lack of urban centers or the lawlessness that prevents investments around the country, or the insane population levels (absolute numbers as well as growth). Thats just passing the buck man. Please explain your expectations of NRIs though.

By the way I am not making this thread into a NRI rant, I have clearly mentioned in my first thread on the topic fast exposing Indians as citizens of a nation as compared to selfish islands who are simply interested in themselves. That means Indians, at home and abroad. You of course concentrated on NRIs. xxx

I found the very mention of NRIs unnecessary and consider them an asset that has not been utilized as effectively. My point remains, their remittances play a massive role in our economy and the lack of those would have a catastrophic effect on the common man.

[Gunner_Mania]

Lurker' date=' I largely understand and agree with your sentiments on this thread except for this point on tamilians. In what way do you find tamilians to be any different in their attitude to other Indians?[/quote'] Precisely. What exactly is your point, Lurker? In fact its the Mumbaikar who is baying for the Bihari blood, but that taking the thread in a complete different direction. I don't exactly see what attitude of a Tamilian are you complaining about that no other Indian has?

[Gunner_Mania]

the no.of issues that hurt us is just mindbogling ... if there is a problem that can hurt a country you can find it in India. Its a miracle that we still have some sort of nation that gets by somehow.

because that is our general attitude isn't it. Sab chaltha hai. Anything goes wrong, we justify saying its ok it happens all the time or it also happens in the rest of the world. So the country also just keeps moving.

[Mamu]

One Direct Question:- What should be the salary of a person/family for you to be over the Poverty Line ?

[Lurker]

Lurker' date=' I largely understand and agree with your sentiments on this thread except for this point on tamilians. [b']In what way do you find tamilians to be any different in their attitude to other Indians?

I dont. I was merely using two states as a reference. You could easily switch Punjabis and Teleugus and still have them bay for each other's blood. Okay maybe baying for blood is taking matters too far but it is not very difficult to see a politician(say Jayalalitha) invoking Tamil sentiments suggesting Chennai needs Internal Airport and are refused because of Delhi(read North Indian) powerspeak. I have taken poetic license, and a lot of it, but hope that elaborates the point.

[Clarke]

One Direct Question:- What should be the salary of a person/family for you to be over the Poverty Line ?

Depends on whom ur asking: as per World Bank it was $1.25 per person per day in 2005. As per the planning commission, its Rs. 300-500 for the same yr depending on where u live. In practical terms, it depends on how u define poverty. They're still working on current numbers for the Food Security Act.

[Guest Gunner]

I dont. I was merely using two states as a reference. You could easily switch Punjabis and Teleugus and still have them bay for each other's blood. Okay maybe baying for blood is taking matters too far but it is not very difficult to see a politician(say Jayalalitha) invoking Tamil sentiments suggesting Chennai needs Internal Airport and are refused because of Delhi(read North Indian) powerspeak. I have taken poetic license, and a lot of it, but hope that elaborates the point.

I understand your point better. If you mean that there is no bhai chara between people from different states, I am entirely in agreement with you. Nepotism starts from a micro level (relatives) all the way to the very top (national politics). I doubt whether that will ever change. the example of Europe comes to mind immediately, despite the EU, single parliament etc they all have problems with eachother.

[Lurker]

The poverty rate is lesser than what it was earlier' date= isnt it ?

Since you are concentrating on NRI component only, can you show me what they have done to decrease the poverty rate?? If anything it is the Planning Commission that deserves full praises for getting the numbers down, how so miniscal it might be.

The issues of housing and malnutrition have been the case all along and is not a recent phenomenon.

Says who??? In 10 years I have seen the price of housing skrocket 3-4 times. You go to any urban center - Mumbai, Hyderabad, Chennai, Gurgaon, Delhi, Noida etc et - and every new apartment that is being built has an overwhemling NRI occupancy. The people who actually live in Chennai, a college teacher for example, would be unable to afford a house in the very city. When was this ever a scenario in Indian society??

NRIs are not responsible for lack of urban centers or the lawlessness that prevents investments around the country, or the insane population levels (absolute numbers as well as growth)

Never said they are responsible for either of those.

Please explain your expectations of NRIs though.

My expectations for NRIs is the same as that of any Indians. Remember your fundamental rights as well as civic duties. This whole discussion about increase of economic gap in India has component of Govt failure as well as citizen's apathy. You are concentarting on former, I am suggesting we need to look at both.

I found the very mention of NRIs unnecessary and consider them an asset that has not been utilized as effectively.

Nothing unneccessary about a point (Housing) which is a fundamental right of every citizen. If you can prove me that NRI development has not send the real estate market skyrocketing, and out of reach of common Indians, I will concede. But I am yet to see you even attempt a rebuttal at that. Maybe a tacid admission there?

My point remains, their remittances play a massive role in our economy and the lack of those would have a catastrophic effect on the common man.

Those days are long gone. I repeat what I said earlier - you need to have bit more faith in your country (unless you have traded your passport). If India is doing good it is because of Indians, and not NRIs. The latter have a role to play but lets not overstate the role of 5% (if that) Indian population over the rest 95%. xxx

[Lurker]

I understand your point better. If you mean that there is no bhai chara between people from different states' date=' I am entirely in agreement with you. Nepotism starts from a micro level (relatives) all the way to the very top (national politics). I doubt whether that will ever change. the example of Europe comes to mind immediately, despite the EU, single parliament etc they all have problems with eachother.[/quote'] They say cricket and Bollywood unites India, I say throw in Railways as well. However the larger point about Indians coming together only by certain common factor remains. In no other country this is as prevalent a phenomenon. It is not that we dont get along, cos somehow India does manage to chug along like an overfilled train, but still we keep our selfish interests(personal, state based, ethnic) ahead of National interest. Any surprise in a civilization that is 5000 plus years old and boast of 10 plus language with over 10 million speakers chooses to use an external language as common medium :winky:

[seedhi]

Thats neither here nor there. I asked a rather straight forward question in the context of this thread. The ordinary Indians, certainly the poor ones, are suffering from inability to address basic needs: Employment Housing Inflation If you can show me how NRIs have helped the issue I can understand your criticism. Needless to say it is not very difficult to show how NRIs have effectively pushed Housing straight through the roof, and considering how Real Estate/Housing is the backbone for any economy, the rising cost has shot everything else through the roof too. By the way I am not making this thread into a NRI rant, I have clearly mentioned in my first thread on the topic fast exposing Indians as citizens of a nation as compared to selfish islands who are simply interested in themselves. That means Indians, at home and abroad. You of course concentrated on NRIs. xxx

I think you are restricting yourself to the urban poor when you talk of the housing situation. Even there, it is mostly because of the growth of the economy and a phenomenal rise in Indian salaries. This, combined with a powerful and politically entrenched land mafia has led to this situation. For example, in Hyderabad thousands of acres of govt land were handed over to the mafia in recent years, which was partially exposed in the Satyam scandal. The other important aspect is the migration of rural poor into cities. Decades of neglect of the rural population and stagnation of agricultural sector has now manifested itself in range of problems - from farmer suicides to urban congestion. As far as NRIs - lets be honest - the govt earns over $50 billion of forex from remittances. I dont see proof of any major inflationary impact in housing solely due to NRIs, there might a small contribution. The govt can always step in and regulate property purchase by NRIs. But the fact is that the NRIs do bring in substantial capital which helps the govt out fiscally.