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Mosque near ground zero

Clarke

By Clarke
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yoda Newbie

yoda

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Say that the next time a muslim terrorist mows down your house and the town wishes to build a mosque in the same place.
two differences: 1. Those guys are dead 2. It is not in the same place, just in the neighborhood Like I said, it is not AQ which wants to build the mosque, some unrelated guys. Then again hate can blind one's thinking, so I am not surprised at the reactions. If we are going to hate all Muslims cause of these "Islamic/Muslim terrorists", we are all in for a much worse future.
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seedhi Newbie

seedhi

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two differences: 1. Those guys are dead 2. It is not in the same place, just in the neighborhood Like I said, it is not AQ which wants to build the mosque, some unrelated guys. Then again hate can blind one's thinking, so I am not surprised at the reactions. If we are going to hate all Muslims cause of these "Islamic/Muslim terrorists", we are all in for a much worse future.
And what would you think the reaction would be if the UK govt opened up a cultural center dedicated to King George in front of Jallianwala Bagh? Even though India and UK are friendly countries and all that, do you think this would be allowed? And even if it were allowed would the people of Amritsar swallow this insult without a protest?
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yoda Newbie

yoda

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And what would you think the reaction would be if the UK govt opened up a cultural center dedicated to King George in front of Jallianwala Bagh? Even though India and UK are friendly countries and all that, do you think this would be allowed? And even if it were allowed would the people of Amritsar swallow this insult without a protest?
1. They are not building a monument for one of the terrorists or their leader AFAIK 2. They are not building it at the site or in front of it Don't see the comparison.
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achilles Newbie

achilles

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aaaaaaaw, how sweet. i hope the nobel peace prize committee takes note of your post and keeps you in mind when the awards are handed out next year.
Thank you :icflove:
From the article: But he went on to explain that he was not endorsing the construction of the Islamic center. "I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there' date=" he said. Will not comment? Typical politician - trying to talk out of both sides of his mouth. They have a right to build it, but I didn't say it was right, but I did not even say it was wrong so I can always fall back and explain it away as "nuance." And then this gem from a White House spokesman and I paraphrase - "It is a local project. It is not his job to comment on every local project ..." Is it really, Mr. Burton? Are you blind or stupid or just hiding behind technicality?
Shocking to see his flip-flop. Him being considered the next great hope for America, this is only going to portray him as someone who is weak and easily bullied by the majority
Wonder what's next - A Shinto shrine right next to the USS Arizona memorial in Honolulu?
:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:
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Brainfade Newbie

Brainfade

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1. They are not building a monument for one of the terrorists or their leader AFAIK 2. They are not building it at the site or in front of it Don't see the comparison.
Gov. Paterson had offered them another site a few miles away. They refused to build it there. One wonders why. I understand their legal right, are they being considerate?
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Ram Newbie

Ram

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Doesn't shock me one bit.
The contradiction exists only in your mind CA. He has clearly said that, while Muslim US citizens have the absolute right to exercise their freedom of religion and build a mosque that ‘conforms to local laws and ordinances’, he is not ‘sure of the wisdom behind the decision to build a mosque at particular location in lower Manhattan..’ That is a very justifiable, secular position to take and a position that I agree with entirely. As much as I think that Muslims have the right to build a mosque where ever they choose to do so, it is a big unwise on their part to have chosen that particular location.
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Brainfade Newbie

Brainfade

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The contradiction exists only in your mind CA. He has clearly said that, while Muslim US citizens have the absolute right to exercise their freedom of religion and build a mosque that ‘conforms to local laws and ordinances’, he is not ‘sure of the wisdom behind the decision to build a mosque at particular location in lower Manhattan..’ That is a very justifiable, secular position to take and a position that I agree with entirely. As much as I think that Muslims have the right to build a mosque where ever they choose to do so, it is a big unwise on their part to have chosen that particular location.
He is "not sure?" It sounds like a position one would take so as to not antagonize friends at a party. How about: "I believe in their legal right .... but I also believe that it is unwise and inconsiderate for them to build the mosque there. They have been offered another piece of land for the same project, and I urge them to strongly consider taking the governor up on this offer." Politician vs. Statesman.
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Ram Newbie

Ram

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He is "not sure?" It sounds like a position one would take so as to not antagonize your friends at a party. How about: "I believe in their legal right .... but I also believe that it is unwise and inconsiderate for them to build the mosque there. They have been offered another piece of land for the same project, and I urge them to strongly consider taking the governor up on this offer." Politician vs. Statesman.
You’re going purely by the spoken word, but what about the ‘unspoken word’? Who knows, maybe there are back-room negotiations and talks being held even as we type this. You know how it works CA, at least publicly, the President of the United States of America cannot be seen to be taking such a tough stance on what is an extremely sensitive issue. All the tough/plain talking are generally reserved for the times when the cameras as turned off. Its easy to speak your mind when you’re in the opposition, like the republicans are doing right now. The common misconception that most people have is – just because there is no tough talking to the media, there is no tough talking taking place at all. I am sure you’re sentient enough to know that is not the case. It’s a bit like how some here advocate that the Congressi govt. should stop only marginally short of declaring an open war against Pakistan and go about making gung-ho, inflammatory remarks in the media that will only end up flaring tensions and spooking everyone even more.
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Brainfade Newbie

Brainfade

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You’re going purely by the spoken word, but what about the ‘unspoken word’? Who knows, maybe there are back-room negotiations and talks being held even as we type this.
I suppose I am the resident skeptic, but I will believe it when I see it.
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Clarke Mentor

Clarke

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He is "not sure?" It sounds like a position one would take so as to not antagonize friends at a party. How about: "I believe in their legal right .... but I also believe that it is unwise and inconsiderate for them to build the mosque there. They have been offered another piece of land for the same project, and I urge them to strongly consider taking the governor up on this offer." Politician vs. Statesman.
ahem .. liberal cough vote cough cough bank cough
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Ram Newbie

Ram

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I suppose I am the resident skeptic' date=' but I will believe it when I see it.[/quote'] You seriously think the President of the United States of America would want to be seen as taking a public stand, for or against a particular community? What Obama has said in public so far on this issue is as much as you will ever from him. He obviously re-affirmed America’s commitment to religious freedom and his allegiance to the first amendment, while subtly hinting that the Mosque should not have been planned there in the first place. That’s classic Obama pragmatism for you. You can either be like this, or take the Sarah Palin/GoP route question the collective intent/loyalty of the millions of Muslims living the United States. When Sarah Palin the mosque ‘will hinder the healing process’, what she essentially means by that is ‘We need less of Islam in the United States, please go away..’ Do you want the President of the United States to sound like that? You want him to take a definitive stand on everything, which is fine. But surely CA, you realize that the world doesn’t operate in such black and white terms.
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Brainfade Newbie

Brainfade

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You seriously think the President of the United States of America would want to be seen as taking a public stand, for or against a particular community? What Obama has said in public so far on this issue is as much as you will ever from him. He obviously re-affirmed America’s commitment to religious freedom and his allegiance to the first amendment, while subtly hinting that the Mosque should not have been planned there in the first place. That’s classic Obama pragmatism for you. You can either be like this, or take the Sarah Palin/GoP route question the collective intent/loyalty of the millions of Muslims living the United States. When Sarah Palin the mosque ‘will hinder the healing process’, what she essentially means by that is ‘We need less of Islam in the United States, please go away..’ Do you want the President of the United States to sound like that? You want him to take a definitive stand on everything, which is fine. But surely CA, you realize that the world doesn’t operate in such black and white terms.
First, there are many tenable political shades between Obama's ultra-liberalism and Palin's whatever-it-is-ism. On a side-note, it is amusing that any criticism of Obama brings out the Palin-card. Who in their right mind would compare Obama with Palin? Now, the Biden-Palin comparisons have validity, but I digress. Regardless, she is not the one I want representing the Republican party. I hear the intelligent voices like those of Mitch Daniels, Paul Ryan, Tim Pawlenty and Bobby Jindal, voices that are all but drowned out by the public's obsession with Palin. Back to the point: Compare Obama's response to this issue with the response he had to the Harvard professor incident - "The police acted stupidly." To BP: "Plug the damn hole." So why not this: "The Cordoba center committee is not using good judgment."?? He's just playing the politics of appeasement - and is wrong to do so. As for operating in black-and-white terms - the world *did* seem that way to BHO during the campaign: "I *will* have a public option." "I will have all troops out in 16 months." "I will close G'namo bay." "Unemployment will never top 10% under my watch." When the excrement hits the fan, shades of gray are suddenly visible?
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yoda Newbie

yoda

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Yoda' date=' when was the last time the concept of "forgive and forgive/ live and let live" was acknowledged in full spirit by any Islamic populace pretty much anywhere in the world and especially in our neighbourhood in and around India ?[/quote'] Tomorrow if a few moronic Hindus commit crimes in the name of the religion will you be ok with us being discriminated against in terms of how and where and we worship? You cannot punish a larger group for the crimes of a few.
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Ram Newbie

Ram

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First' date=' there are many tenable political shades between Obama's ultra-liberalism and Palin's whatever-it-is-ism. On a side-note, it is amusing that any criticism of Obama brings out the Palin-card. Who in their right mind would compare Obama with Palin? Now, the Biden-Palin comparisons have validity, but I digress. Regardless, she is not the one I want representing the Republican party. I hear the intelligent voices like those of Mitch Daniels, Paul Ryan, Tim Pawlenty and Bobby Jindal, voices that are all but drowned out by the public's obsession with Palin. [/quote'] I brought up Palin not because I think she’s the gold standard, but to highlight the limitations with which the President of the United States Operates. Its easier to speak your mind, when you’re in the opposition. If you honestly expected Obama to be publicly forthright in this issues, in my opinion, that is a flawed expectation.
Back to the point: Compare Obama's response to this issue with the response he had to the Harvard professor incident - "The police acted stupidly." To BP: "Plug the damn hole." So why not this: "The Cordoba center committee is not using good judgment."?? He's just playing the politics of appeasement - and is wrong to do so.
Seriously CA, you want to compare Obama’s response to a police arrest of a black Professor or the botched up oil rig of a British company to an issue as sensitive as this? Apples and oranges CA, apples and oranges. If anything, I thought you’d give Obama some credit for adopting the unpopular line and backing the construction of the mosque, rather than just toeing the mainstream line and say the mosque should have been elsewhere.
As for operating in black-and-white terms - the world *did* seem that way to BHO during the campaign: "I *will* have a public option." "I will have all troops out in 16 months." "I will close G'namo bay." "Unemployment will never top 10% under my watch." When the excrement hits the fan, shades of gray are suddenly visible?
For the record, I don’t recollect Obama ever committing to a public option in healthcare while campaigning (I followed his campaign pretty closely in the latter half, but you can prove me wrong). The troops in Iraq are being pulled out as we speak, while in regards to the unemployment, what do you expect him to say? That unemployment will go over 10%? The President is supposed to sound hopeful and positive, not despondent and dejected. Yes, G’no bay has been a disappointment, but by and large, he has delivered on most of his campaign promises. Even otherwise, do you expect President Obama to be sound exactly like Candidate Obama? Do you think that is even realistic?
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rahulrulezz Rookie

rahulrulezz

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I just read the whole thread and some of the posts are just disgustingg......Can some of you guys please f*&*&*&g cut this abusiveness against muslims folks..Can't we guys debate like civillized people....Why do you guys forget that we have a large Indian muslim population and some of the posts are really degretory and offensive to their religion.. seriously some of the comments make me wonder how do our Indian muslim brothers take down all this cr@p from all these wannabees Bal Thackreyss...

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