Where are the Indian fast bowlers?

[hari504504]

Lets face it' date=' we will never unerath a bowler who can bowl at 140-150 kms consistently, [/quote'] I don't see a sound reason as to why we won't :--D Look at Umesh Yadav for example.. one IPL season of 140+ deliveries and he is knocking at the door of the indian team !!!..imagine any batsman doing that ?? It has to be clear by now to everyone in the country that bowl 145+ and you can waltz into the indian team....easiest way to money and glory. If that isn't motivating enough for the youth to bowl quick ..nothing is!

[achilles]

Lets face it' date=' we will never unerath a bowler who can bowl at 140-150 kms consistently, instead of wasting time ion searching the pace bowlers, we should concentrate on spinners, we are losing them now..[/quote'] Spinners are dying coz decent spinners never make it to the team coz unlike 3 pacers + 1 f-b-ar, we can have just 2 full-time spinners (at times that too) in the Playing XI. Also, there are many spinners like Murali Karthik who don't get their due, despite persistent performances and bowlers like Ashwin get the nod over him and worse, perform which completely negates any scope for them to come back. India needs a 145+ pacer right now and unfortunately, the general public doesn't give a damn about how many rotations a spinner gave to the ball. They wanna see pace. And this is rubbing the spinners the wrong way. There is no motivation for a spinner but tons for a 140+ pacer, many of who have come and gone, failing to deliver the goods.

I don't see a sound reason as to why we won't :--D Look at Umesh Yadav for example.. one IPL season of 140+ deliveries and he is knocking at the door of the indian team !!!..imagine any batsman doing that ?? It has to be clear by now to everyone in the country that bowl 145+ and you can waltz into the indian team....easiest way to money and glory. If that isn't motivating enough for the youth to bowl quick ..nothing is!

Excellent reply, Hari :two_thumbs_up:

[Serani]

Whats motivating about bowling on flat tracks and being smashed around by FTB's like Yusuf Pathan and then getting injured. If your indian you might aswell try and bat.

[achilles]

Whats motivating about bowling on flat tracks and being smashed around by FTB's like Yusuf Pathan and then getting injured. If your indian you might aswell try and bat.

The reason Indian bowlers go a long way is because of those very flat tracks. It teaches them the importance of being on the money on a persistent basis, knowing that no one would care about them at all if they don't do well. Rather than crying hoarse about the obvious handicap, a lot of our bowlers concentrate on line and length and make it big on the international stage. Next on their list- PACE

[hari504504]

Whats motivating about bowling on flat tracks and being smashed around by FTB's like Yusuf Pathan and then getting injured. If your indian you might aswell try and bat.

try and bat and then do what ? Shikar Dhawan,Rayudu,Pujara etc would be in genuine contention of a XI spot in some of the other teams, but in India they are nothing. Its very hard to be spotted if you are a good batsman in India, there are plenty of em already queuing up. The only part where we DON'T have anyone in contention is genuine pace...that should be motivating enough - Atul Sharma an example. I know he is a bad one to bring-up since he is unproven, but it is the truth that he spent a good amount of time and money training with Ian Pont with the sole purpose of BOWLING GENUINELY QUICK. Expect more of them in the next 5 years with hopefully 1-2 success stories.

[msb1991]

I disagree with a belief that it is the pitches or coaches that discourage quick bowling in India. If somebody has the talent to bowl genuinely fast, then they will. If spmebody has genuine pace, then it is a sure fire way to take wickets at a lower level and get recognised for cricket at the highest level. The fact is that the bowlers in India lack the physique or coaching to maintain any initial pace that they have. They do not understand their actions, as the biomechanical coaching is far behind England or Australia - who produce numerous 140kph bowlers, and so when a flaw inevitably creeps in, they cannot fix it or could have a half baked cure to make an action more safe, but lose pace at the same time (see Shahadat Hossain, who used to be genuinely quick, changed his action for injury problems and now bowls at just 130kph). Similarly, we do not have strong bowlers, for whom, action is not as much of a concern as getting into a position to shoulder the ball down at good pace, like someone like Kallis. You talk about someone like Yadav, as if he is special on the world stage, but he mainly bowls in the 130s, with the odd spell at 140kph - this is pretty standard for around one or two obscure names in most Englsih counties. Heck, I even saw Chris Wright and Mitchell Claydon bowling at 140kph in the FP T20. In India, this would cause uproar, but these two are pretty average county seamers. As for an easy solution, I'm not sure. Although the levels of strength and action coaching are behind other countries, you see nations like Pakistan and Bangladesh with comparable levels producing the odd tearaway, pointing out that there is a natural deficiency, whether genetic, cultural or whatever is unimportant because we can catch up if we hire some genuine biomechanical experts to the NCA (and try to get this through to grass roots cricket through coaching education schemes) and look to emphasise the importance of strength training, like England have done with Broad and Finn by withdrawing them from international competition. If this myth of Atul has taught us one thing, is that you can teach pace. He would not have got (India Today interview, Spin Cricket interview, bowling at the NCA, meeting Modi, IPL 'contract') where he got if he was still 70mph, like when he first met Pont - that is for sure.

[cowboysfan]

I disagree with a belief that it is the pitches or coaches that discourage quick bowling in India. If somebody has the talent to bowl genuinely fast, then they will. If spmebody has genuine pace, then it is a sure fire way to take wickets at a lower level and get recognised for cricket at the highest level. The fact is that the bowlers in India lack the physique or coaching to maintain any initial pace that they have. They do not understand their actions, as the biomechanical coaching is far behind England or Australia - who produce numerous 140kph bowlers, and so when a flaw inevitably creeps in, they cannot fix it or could have a half baked cure to make an action more safe, but lose pace at the same time (see Shahadat Hossain, who used to be genuinely quick, changed his action for injury problems and now bowls at just 130kph). Similarly, we do not have strong bowlers, for whom, action is not as much of a concern as getting into a position to shoulder the ball down at good pace, like someone like Kallis. You talk about someone like Yadav, as if he is special on the world stage, but he mainly bowls in the 130s, with the odd spell at 140kph - this is pretty standard for around one or two obscure names in most Englsih counties. Heck, I even saw Chris Wright and Mitchell Claydon bowling at 140kph in the FP T20. In India, this would cause uproar, but these two are pretty average county seamers. As for an easy solution, I'm not sure. Although the levels of strength and action coaching are behind other countries, you see nations like Pakistan and Bangladesh with comparable levels producing the odd tearaway, pointing out that there is a natural deficiency, whether genetic, cultural or whatever is unimportant because we can catch up if we hire some genuine biomechanical experts to the NCA (and try to get this through to grass roots cricket through coaching education schemes) and look to emphasise the importance of strength training, like England have done with Broad and Finn by withdrawing them from international competition. If this myth of Atul has taught us one thing, is that you can teach pace. He would not have got (India Today interview, Spin Cricket interview, bowling at the NCA, meeting Modi, IPL 'contract') where he got if he was still 70mph, like when he first met Pont - that is for sure.

very good post.A good solution to bowlers losing pace once they get into the national side would be to have separate fast bowlers for odis and tests.

[rkt.india]

The main thing in fast bowling is knowing your when u r bowling quick and dont lose it which happened with Ishant and Irfan....both lost their actual action when they started and were doing well and bowling quicker than wt they are right now....all good genuine pacers will know their action very well...like dale steyn, shoiab akhtar, and Brett lee...they knw their action and if any mistake occurs they correct it themselves by watching their old videos and by bowling in teh nets....

[Fontaine]

I think it comes down to coaching and development of bowlers. In India young bowlers are put forward at a very early age into ODI/T20/Test cricket without much thought to developing the different skills like fitness/stamina/control etc. Instead of learning about how to improve their fitness, they're asked to learn, in quick time, how to bowl in different conditions against some of the best batsmen in the world. In the past our bowlers learnt about their bowling actions/fitness etc through the MRF academy but thanks to the BCCI it's been banned. So instead of a young 20/21 year old fast bowler learning how to improve his strength/conditioning and fitness/bowling action, the BCCI and selectors put Ishant in virtually every format of cricket like T20/ODI/Test and when he ineviteably struggles, it's his fault. Someone like Broad is developed, advised against bowling in every format, in every tournament, is asked to bowl in a specific way for a specifc format. It's the same in Australia where they typically don't choose young bowlers right away but wait for them to develop in their excellent domestic structure. In India we have to send our bowlers to country cricket in England (like RP/Zaheer etc) in order for them to learn all the other important things required to bowl well and bowl fast. It would be understandeable if we had a weak, feeble cricket board like the PCB but the BCCI has more money/resources and influence. They DON'T invest in biomechanical coaching. They DON'T invest in cricket infrastructure. You only have to read audit reports to find our how much actual money the BCCI invest in domestic cricket to find they reinvest something appalling like 4 to 9% of generated revenue back into Indian cricket. Whereas the ECB at least invest money into county cricket (even counties that are making a loss) and cricket infrasctructure from facilities, to coaching, to equipment etc. Our bowlers in domestic cricket only two years ago didn't actually get enough kookaburra balls to bowl with because . . . . . they were deemed too expensive to waste in practices. How lame is that?

[Gunner_Mania]

^ Dude stop promoting your link in every second post.

[Serani]

probably a bot.

[Guest OriginalPrince]

india have never had a consistently quick fast bowler and i don't expect that to change anytime soon. this is the reason india have never won in countries like aus and sa and can never hope to either.

[hari504504]

india have never had a consistently quick fast bowler and i don't expect that to change anytime soon. this is the reason india have never won in countries like aus and sa and can never hope to either.

you mean winning a series ??..we have come almighty close to it only to be denied by frigging umpires... even the aussies ought to admit it.....we don't need a genuinely quick bowler to win a series in SA or AUS...we can do so with decent bowlers who do the job,and awesome batsmen to back them up. Look at Pak..they've/had Akhtar,Waqar,Wasim, all genuinely quick..but have not won any series in Aus or SA..so your theory is wrong!

[msb1991]

The main thing in fast bowling is knowing your when u r bowling quick and dont lose it which happened with Ishant and Irfan....both lost their actual action when they started and were doing well and bowling quicker than wt they are right now....all good genuine pacers will know their action very well...like dale steyn' date=' shoiab akhtar, and Brett lee...they knw their action and if any mistake occurs they correct it themselves by watching their old videos and by bowling in teh nets....[/quote'] If you look at Irfan Pathan's hattrick, he was bowling at around 75mph. Similarly with his spell against Bangladesh (on youtube), he bowls at around 75-80mph. The key with him is that he was swinging the ball. During 2007, when he initially fell away and was dropped from the Indian team, he wasn't doing all that badly, when compared to now. My memory of back then is pretty shady, but I'm sure he was swinging the ball, just that his pace was down. I'm not sure whether this was injury or it was actually a technical flaw in his action but I am sure that the decline was over exaggerated due to poor Test performances, whereas Pathan had never done well in Tests, up until then, except Zimbabwe and Bangladesh (I think this was a key part of over exaggerating the problem of a loss in form). The new action which he created at the MRF Pace Foundation and debuted in the World T20, looked an absolute disaster to me. He did well then, but could not keep it up and bowled pretty terribly throughout the period. Recently though, I'm seeing shades of his natural bowling action and he was getting swing in the IPL. I don't think he was fully fit in this year's IPL, so the speed was down, but he was getting a lot of swing and this is the important thing. He had a very strong domestic year, and this is important, imo. If we look at other out of favour Indian seamers, like Sreesanth and RP Singh, they cannot, atm, string a good season together. As for Ishant, I have no idea what happened, it would just appear he forgot how to bowl fast:hatsoff: Your point about knowing the action is crucial; Shoaib Akhtar has subtly remodelled his action numerous times to bowl at greater speed, if you look at clips of him throughout the years. Steyn had the stint with Pont that helped him out and Brett Lee seems to understand his action well too.

I think it comes down to coaching and development of bowlers. In India young bowlers are put forward at a very early age into ODI/T20/Test cricket without much thought to developing the different skills like fitness/stamina/control etc.

Yes, I agree with this. Perhaps this will not help in creating express bowlers, but better bowlers? Certainly, imo.

Instead of learning about how to improve their fitness' date=' they're asked to learn, in quick time, how to bowl in different conditions against some of the best batsmen in the world.[/quote'] Indeed. If someone knows their game, they should be able to adapt far easier than a youngster.

In the past our bowlers learnt about their bowling actions/fitness etc through the MRF academy but thanks to the BCCI it's been banned.

My belief was that the MRF Foundation would be merged into the NCA's bowling wing, but this has not occured. As the nation of the IPL, we should really be able to rope in top coaching talent, year round for the NCA.

So instead of a young 20/21 year old fast bowler learning how to improve his strength/conditioning and fitness/bowling action' date=' the BCCI and selectors put Ishant in virtually every format of cricket like T20/ODI/Test and when he ineviteably struggles, it's his fault.[/quote'] Ishant has lost pace, I do not think this is due to multiple formats. However, I agree in principle that throwing someone into the deep end is stupid way to do things. Straight from U19 to one season of domestic to all three teams is just a poor way to go about things.

Someone like Broad is developed' date=' advised against bowling in every format, in every tournament, is asked to bowl in a specific way for a specifc format. It's the same in Australia where they typically don't choose young bowlers right away but wait for them to develop in their excellent domestic structure.[/quote'] Broad is a student of the game, which helps. He studies variations, comes up with some of his own. I do not think India's bowlers have such an attitude. I think Prasad did have an attitude like this and this is why he was a valuable bowling coach. He'd ask around, gain information and pass it on to the players.

In India we have to send our bowlers to country cricket in England (like RP/Zaheer etc) in order for them to learn all the other important things required to bowl well and bowl fast.

When you have a competitive domestic scene, like in England, teams have good staff and the minor strengthening to RP Singh really helped him. Seems to have worn off now though. I am baffled why BCCI does not send more bowlers to England. Someone like Kulkarni could hold a spot on performance in a Division Two side and would learn loads.

They DON'T invest in biomechanical coaching. They DON'T invest in cricket infrastructure. You only have to read audit reports to find our how much actual money the BCCI invest in domestic cricket to find they reinvest something appalling like 4 to 9% of generated revenue back into Indian cricket. Whereas the ECB at least invest money into county cricket (even counties that are making a loss) and cricket infrasctructure from facilities, to coaching, to equipment etc. Our bowlers in domestic cricket only two years ago didn't actually get enough kookaburra balls to bowl with because . . . . . they were deemed too expensive to waste in practices. How lame is that?

Agree with all of this. BCCI suck!

india have never had a consistently quick fast bowler and i don't expect that to change anytime soon. this is the reason india have never won in countries like aus and sa and can never hope to either.

Disagree.

you mean winning a series ??..we have come almighty close to it only to be denied by frigging umpires... even the aussies ought to admit it.....we don't need a genuinely quick bowler to win a series in SA or AUS...we can do so with decent bowlers who do the job,and awesome batsmen to back them up. Look at Pak..they've/had Akhtar,Waqar,Wasim, all genuinely quick..but have not won any series in Aus or SA..so your theory is wrong!

Agreed.

[Guest OriginalPrince]

you mean winning a series ??..we have come almighty close to it only to be denied by frigging umpires... even the aussies ought to admit it.....we don't need a genuinely quick bowler to win a series in SA or AUS...we can do so with decent bowlers who do the job,and awesome batsmen to back them up. Look at Pak..they've/had Akhtar,Waqar,Wasim, all genuinely quick..but have not won any series in Aus or SA..so your theory is wrong!

Most Pakistani games are fixed....

[CG]

AT Test Cricket.

[Praveen129]

ATM we don't have a bowler who can hit 140+ regularly.Ishant looked promising when he hit 150 is AUS,but has gone downhill since then.I think he's just too thin Lol.He should bulk up around the shoulder area.I firmly believe he should stay away from international cricket for a good year or so after the world cup.Work with a physical trainer & show some interest in healthy food:haha:

[Praveen129]

Sreesanth needs to work on bowling rather than working on stupid gestures.

[Serani]

The benefits of strength training are there for all to see, I mean look at Ryan Harris, he manages to bowl 150 K's through sheer muscularity and upper body/shoulder strength. The mans an utter tank!

[achilles]

The benefits of strength training are there for all to see' date=' I mean look at Ryan Harris, he manages to bowl 150 K's through sheer muscularity and upper body/shoulder strength. The mans an utter tank![/quote'] He's such an awesome cricketer. One of the best cricketers to come out of Australia for quite a while.