Aussies against Swing

[TumTum]

Go watch the match. The ball was moving around all over the place and to add to it' date=' the pitch wasn't as good as this one with uneven bounce. Everyone was criticizing Ganguly's decision to bat first.[/quote'] And yet India got 600+ and Australia got 88?

[thevortex]

You see the frustrating thing I see is that when Australia have performed well people say how amazing the depth is.. then when they perform poorly its this whole "they are on the decline" thing.. I think it's pretty obvious that the side isn't as good as it used to be, but really its quite hard to expect it to be either! That team was filled with champions so when a good half a dozen of them retire at the same time its obviously not something which can be replaced overnight. They may never be replaced, who knows.. But I think Australia will always remain competitive, only time will tell if we can get back to those dominant days. I think when you compare the Australian side to that of other national sides, they are always in with a chance to win the match. That means that they can't be that bad when you still expect them to just about win every match.

Bradman - you probably will remember that I have remained consistent in my views :). Whether Australia win or lose, such has been my position. That they are in decline. We have already discussed agreeing that they are not in the West Indies level and likely they may never go that far down. In fact most certainly not. But what are your thoughts on this bowling setup of Australia? That is the one which should cause the most concern. That apart what do you see happening after Ponting and Hussey call it a day.

[Lord]

My point was that against quality swing bolwing its not easy to bat. But I have never seen anyone lambast aussies on their lack of technique to play swinging ball.

Shaun Udal v India,Mumbai Mendis in last series in SL Clarke in Mumbai,2004 i can dig more.do u see people lambast India for lack of technique to play spin?

[Mr. Wicket]

for the johnny come latelys and other bacchhe log who have no idea what a real green top innings is like thanks to their diet of IPL... I will say this: India batted in WORSE conditions that game than anything Australia faced. They had basic swing and seam, balls moving both ways and couldn't deal with it. Rahul Dravid in one of the greatest innings I have ever seen by an Indian batsman. Skies were gray, pitch had plenty of grass on it, and journeymen seamers like Alex Tudor looked deadly with the ball seaming and swinging viciously, and also gripping on wet parts of the pitch and bouncing inconsistently. Dravid, in great form, in his batting prime, was hit several times. On the wrists, in the thighs, in the ribcage, etc. Unless you're on a dog of a wicket, that doesn't happen to a top quality batsman in absolutely prime form who is well set. Dravid and Bangar produced a spectacular partnership beyond the expectations of ANYONE watching the game. If you had told anyone at the ground who had seen the wicket that the team batting first would be only TWO down at stumps after a full 90 overs on day 1, you'd have been told you were nuts. Dravid made that happen and built the platform for an incredible assault from Tendulkar and Ganguly (with the pitch still quite a handful to bat on). The four batsmen who scored big that game - Dravid, SRT, Gangluddin and Hussain - all had plenty of technique against the seaming ball, and all had the patience and tenacity to tough it out in difficult conditions. Australia OTOH got cocky and careless, playing some decidedly average shots at times or just not being able to gauge the conditions and making careless decisions (sometimes premeditated). Hence why one team got 88 all out, and another made 600+ despite batting in far tougher conditions.

[TumTum]

Shaun Udal v India,Mumbai Mendis in last series in SL Clarke in Mumbai,2004 i can dig more.do u see people lambast India for lack of technique to play spin?

Exactly. All this is a bit stupid.

[kabira]

Shaun Udal v India,Mumbai Mendis in last series in SL Clarke in Mumbai,2004 i can dig more.do u see people lambast India for lack of technique to play spin?

LOL nice logic. You have 3 example and I can give you lot more where indian batsman batting on spin friendly pitches against greats like warne and murli.

[Lord]

LOL nice logic. You have 3 example and I can give you lot more where indian batsman batting on spin friendly pitches against greats like warne and murli.

logic is yours.i'm just showing its folly. i can also show examples of Aussies doing well in swinging conditions.proves nothing

[kabira]

^ok show me 3 examples of aussies doing well in swinging conditions in last 5 years?

[EnterTheVoid]

Big deal' date=' tell me who can play when the ball is doing circles?[/quote']

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63999.html

Nice logic. Not just good but really brilliant.

Go watch the match. The ball was moving around all over the place and to add to it' date=' the pitch wasn't as good as this one with uneven bounce. Everyone was criticizing Ganguly's decision to bat first.[/quote'] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFK-kNbhk9o&feature=PlayList&p=CE354CDEBBD7476E&playnext=1&index=16]YouTube- Rahul Dravid vs England at Leeds, 2002[/ame]

[Mr. Wicket]

anudda collapse

[saneindian]

The batsmen of modern era tend to struggle a lot against genuine swing, high quality spin bowling. Not too many of them are comofrtable against the short pitch bowling as well. Can't really single out one team for being weak against a speciifc type of bowling. But then I do understand what the OP is saying. Our batsmen get singled out for our failures in batting, while the Aussies have been floundering far too often in the last 3-4 years, yet we don;t even hear a murmur about the decline.

[Lord]

^ok show me 3 examples of aussies doing well in swinging conditions in last 5 years?

445 v Eng at Headingly last year 466 v SA,Durban 2009 398 v Ind,Nagpur,2004 ur turn now,give 3 examples of India doing well against quality spin on a turning track.should be lot more easier for u since the team i'm asking about India

[kabira]

^LOL last one is not in last 5 years. 445 vs England at Headingly no where near seaming conditions. Anyone who watched will know. Anyways even then lets say you have 1 example there and who told you Durban 2009 were ideal swinging condition. Just because its Durban does not mean its swinging there all the time. So you just have 1 example even if I consider your Headingly example. Back to you.

[kabira]

The batsmen of modern era tend to struggle a lot against genuine swing, high quality spin bowling. Not too many of them are comofrtable against the short pitch bowling as well. Can't really single out one team for being weak against a speciifc type of bowling. But then I do understand what the OP is saying. Our batsmen get singled out for our failures in batting, while the Aussies have been floundering far too often in the last 3-4 years, yet we don;t even hear a murmur about the decline.

thanks for getting my point.

[Lord]

^LOL last one is not in last 5 years. 445 vs England at Headingly no where near seaming conditions. Anyone who watched will know. Anyways even then lets say you have 1 example there and who told you Durban 2009 were ideal swinging condition. Just because its Durban does not mean its swinging there all the time. So you just have 1 example even if I consider your Headingly example. Back to you.

Headingly was swinging.Eng were shot out for 100 IIRC.Ponting battled lot of good swing bowling to get a score. n Durban was swinging too.i remember seeing the match.conditions were overcast all the time on the 1st day.the ball was swinging. yes Nagpur wasnt 5 yrs back.but see i dont watch every Match of Aussies.so its difficult for me.thts why i said it should be easier to you.wat about India doing well on turning track against quality spin.give me 2 examples atleast

[kabira]

How about GAlle, Sehwag's double hundred How about Mumbai against Lanka How about countless times against Warne?? problem is you have missed the point totally.

[Lord]

How about GAlle, Sehwag's double hundred How about Mumbai against Lanka How about countless times against Warne?? problem is you have missed the point totally.

Mumbai wasnt a turner.it was just a good track for something for everybody,even seamers Galle,nobody ecept Sehwag did well Warne last played v us in 2004.not sure how that qualifies in 5 yrs list

[kabira]

Mumbai is always turner with extra bounce. Well you can't pick and choose, in the Headingly it was first 3 guys who did well and in Galle, Sehwag and Gambhir did well. The fact is there are n't ragging turners anymore. There are last day pitches and team crumble against pressure more than the pitch. You are completly missing the point, thats your problem. Most players will find it difficult to play against swing, only few have technique. As we have seen the trend. Aussies have struggled against swing as much as any other team if not more and its India and sub continental teams that get criticized for their technique. hope you understand the point.

[Lord]

Mumbai is always turner with extra bounce. Well you can't pick and choose, in the Headingly it was first 3 guys who did well and in Galle, Sehwag and Gambhir did well. The fact is there are n't ragging turners anymore. There are last day pitches and team crumble against pressure more than the pitch. You are completly missing the point, thats your problem. Most players will find it difficult to play against swing, only few have technique. As we have seen the trend. Aussies have struggled against swing as much as any other team if not more and its India and sub continental teams that get criticized for their technique. hope you understand the point.

it goes both ways.everybody struggles on turners on occasions,on last day pitchhes as u say.but its the Aussies,English n Saffies that criticised for thier inability to play spin,ever wondered why?thats wat i'm tryiing to say? n greentops r rare too these days

[kabira]

>Aussies,English n Saffies that criticised for thier inability to play spin,ever wondered why?thats wat i'm tryiing to say? They are criticized for struggling on day 1 pitches, against not so quality spin. Thats fact. They have improved but still they struggle against Spin. Let me ask you a question Which team is the best against Spin bowling as per experts? Which team struggles most against Swing bowling as per the experts??