Did Guru Greg just get lucky in the mid 80s?

[Nirvanam]

Chappell retired in 1984' date=' not 81/82. We went through back to back 5 test series vs WI after he retired, no team could come out of that well. Then we lost to NZ, couldnt beat India in Australia, there was no fluke with our selections, it took years to find the right players. It isnt like Chappell rocked up in 1984 and said "this bloke Steve Waugh is good, he'll come good in 1989", or "dont worry about 1984, in 1987 we'll win the world cup". LOTS of players were tried and failed, Robbie Kerr, Greg Ritchie, Simon O'Donnell, Dave Gilbert, Chris Matthews, Dirk Wellham, even David Hookes came back in 85 as vice captain and failed. For every guy that did succeed there probably 5 or 6 that failed miserably.[/quote']Chris Mathews? who was that...I remember Greg Mathews. Anyway, remember Tim Zoehrer? Reg Dyer? what quality keepers...they were like our SS Das, Devang Gandhi, etc of opening batsmen in the 90s

[youngindia]

one thing i never understood is, australia had only one senior fast bowler in lawson, the rest lost to SA rebel tours. and they failed to retain him properly at a time when they needed him most. mcdermott had to bear the responsibility as a tyro which proved a little too much.

[Robelinda]

Chris Mathews? who was that...I remember Greg Mathews. Anyway, remember Tim Zoehrer? Reg Dyer? what quality keepers...they were like our SS Das, Devang Gandhi, etc of opening batsmen in the 90s

Chris Matthews was a left arm fast bowler, utter rubbish. Tim Zoeher and Greg Dyer were much better performers that big Chris!

[The Outsider]

The Australians are in complete panic mode it seems. They dropped Johnson two matches after he had taken a five wicket haul, Hilfenhaus one match after he had bowled pretty decently in India, brought in Doherty. Now there are talks of dropping Bollinger after one match and also of bringing in Steve Smith. How Steve Smith looks test class as a batsman or a bowler is beyond my understanding.

[Desi Cartman]

BTW Mark waugh said exactly what Outsider mentioned in the OP ( regarding selection wrt Chappel). I saw M waugh in cricket talk show on Fox sports and was about to create a thread about his influence in the Aussie side for the last few months.

[King Tendulkar]

How Steve Smith looks test class as a batsman or a bowler is beyond my understanding.

The fact that aussies are pimping this guy up to be something sums up their dire state. I will take the risks of posters saying I was abused as a child by also saying Smith is pants and makes someone like Chawla look like a world beater

[Nirvanam]

The fact that aussies are pimping this guy up to be something sums up their dire state. I will take the risks of posters saying I was abused as a child by also saying Smith is pants and makes someone like Chawla look like a world beater

Steve Waugh reckons he is a future great...the kinda ATG that Pawning was expected to become during his early days. But he said that Smith is not expected to be such a kind of batsman or bowler but it is his whole package that makes them believe he will be an ATG...say like Benaud, or Kallis I think it's too early to judge him...but I think Smith can be what they are expecting him to be. Right now Straaya are panicking unnecessarily...they must stick to a playing XI and give them time to learn and do good. Dropping Mitchell was uncalled for. Dropping Hauritz was uncalled for. You never (at least in the last 2 decades) judge a spinner by his performane against India that too in India. Hell, Warne and Murali have been man-handled by Indian batsmen of the caliber of Nayan Mongia in India (and Warne even in Aus), and you expect someone like Hauritz to do better than averaging 40? It's a cardinal sin to judge a spinner's effectiveness against other teams based on his performance against India in India. if that were the case then both Murali and Warne did not deserve to play Test cricket. I mean come on Aussies, what do you expect a spinner to do to the Indians? Except Saqi (who was an aberration as evidenced by how he was man-handled out of Test cricket by the Indians later in 2003-04) no spinner in Test cricket has ever had even a modicum of even Homeopathy type molecular-memory of performance against India in India. And Australia are judging Hauritz based on his performance against batsmen who come from a different universe altogether. Very unfair Get Hauritz back, and NOW! He is your best bowler right now and you need to give him confidence. Don't wait until Graeme Swann is man-handled by the Indians when he plays us, to teach you about this hard fact of life - never judge a spinner's performance against other teams based on how he performs against batsmen who come from a different universe. The great Warne was beaten by stray dogs to pulp by these batsmen who look like they belong to a diff universe when a spinner comes onto bowl. And so was the great Murali. And you expect a decent bowler like Hauritz to perform? Reality check. Get Hauritz back in the effing team...I don't wanna see the Yip yips beating the Cons...I wanna see an Aussie victory...get Hauritz back, pls!

[Nirvanam]

BTW Mark waugh said exactly what Outsider mentioned in the OP ( regarding selection wrt Chappel). I saw M waugh in cricket talk show on Fox sports and was about to create a thread about his influence in the Aussie side for the last few months.

Any links?

[King Tendulkar]

Steve Waugh reckons he is a future great...the kinda ATG that Pawning was expected to become during his early days. But he said that Smith is not expected to be such a kind of batsman or bowler but it is his whole package that makes them believe he will be an ATG...say like Benaud, or Kallis I think it's too early to judge him...but I think Smith can be what they are expecting him to be. Right now Straaya are panicking unnecessarily...they must stick to a playing XI and give them time to learn and do good. Dropping Mitchell was uncalled for. Dropping Hauritz was uncalled for. You never (at least in the last 2 decades) judge a spinner by his performane against India that too in India. Hell, Warne and Murali have been man-handled by Indian batsmen of the caliber of Nayan Mongia in India (and Warne even in Aus), and you expect someone like Hauritz to do better than averaging 40? It's a cardinal sin to judge a spinner's effectiveness against other teams based on his performance against India in India. if that were the case then both Murali and Warne did not deserve to play Test cricket. I mean come on Aussies, what do you expect a spinner to do to the Indians? Except Saqi (who was an aberration as evidenced by how he was man-handled out of Test cricket by the Indians later in 2003-04) no spinner in Test cricket has ever had even a modicum of even Homeopathy type molecular-memory of performance against India in India. And Australia are judging Hauritz based on his performance against batsmen who come from a different universe altogether. Very unfair Get Hauritz back, and NOW! He is your best bowler right now and you need to give him confidence. Don't wait until Graeme Swann is man-handled by the Indians when he plays us, to teach you about this hard fact of life - never judge a spinner's performance against other teams based on how he performs against batsmen who come from a different universe. The great Warne was beaten by stray dogs to pulp by these batsmen who look like they belong to a diff universe when a spinner comes onto bowl. And so was the great Murali. And you expect a decent bowler like Hauritz to perform? Reality check. Get Hauritz back in the effing team...I don't wanna see the Yip yips beating the Cons...I wanna see an Aussie victory...get Hauritz back, pls!

Smiths bowling is simply not going to be good enough as a bowler. He is handy bat and handy fielder and handy bowler. Odi player. But as a test match player you need to be good in one dicipline, his bowling is very very avergae. He is not a star in the making. And S Waugh is gonna get it horribly wrong like he did in enforcing the follow on in 2001! I feel Chappell is having a horrible effect on Aussies and their selctions. At least we know it was not personal in the way he handled Indian team.

[Nirvanam]

Smiths bowling is simply not going to be good enough as a bowler. He is handy bat and handy fielder and handy bowler. Odi player. But as a test match player you need to be good in one dicipline, his bowling is very very avergae. He is not a star in the making. And S Waugh is gonna get it horribly wrong like he did in enforcing the follow on in 2001! I feel Chappell is having a horrible effect on Aussies and their selctions. At least we know it was not personal in the way he handled Indian team.

I am not going to be so dismissive of Steven Smith just as yet. it's very rare for a player to look the part right from his debut. The Buddha is a different story and the other great cricketers who can be spoken in the same breath as his, Lara, Warne, Murali, and Kumble...none of them looked the part when they debuted. It took each of them at least 2 years to even make it to the final elevens consistently...of course Lara got there slightly earlier than 2 years. Agree with Chappell's influence though...he's too hyped as a 'thinker'.

[putrevus]

Steve Waugh can say lot of crap, he also said MJ his quote was "He has the ability to bat at six and play a role like an Ian Botham or a Kapil Dev,". He had bloody nerve to compare this head case to two ATGS of the game. Just because Steve Waugh says Steve Smith has ATG look means nothing that guy is at best odi player. Aussies banking on Steve Smith to revive their Ashes hopes is a reflection on how low their domestic set up has fallen.

[Nirvanam]

Steve Waugh can say lot of crap, he also said MJ his quote was "He has the ability to bat at six and play a role like an Ian Botham or a Kapil Dev,". He had bloody nerve to compare this head case to two ATGS of the game. Just because Steve Waugh says Steve Smith has ATG look means nothing that guy is at best odi player. Aussies banking on Steve Smith to revive their Ashes hopes is a reflection on how low their domestic set up has fallen.

I didn't mean to give special credence to what Steve Waugh's opinion is and that is definitely not what is influencing my own viewpoint on Smith. I just feel it is too early to write him off...for that matter any other cricketer. 2 test matches here and there are not good enough reason to write someone off especially when he is still a kid. Fair to write off a 30+ candidate but not a kid like Smith.

[The Outsider]

This is getting hilarious - the selection panel not only went for Smith as number 6 batsman, but also some Beer guy with 5 FC matches and 16 wickets as the spinner. Meanwhile Hauritz scored a 100 and took 8 wickets in 2 matches.

[King Tendulkar]

Ponting grudge continues against Huaritz. Even willing to sacrifice best chances of wiing ashes to fulfill his personal agendas. So much for team man ponting, what a slfish cpatain he is proving to be

[Nirvanam]

Ponting grudge continues against Huaritz. Even willing to sacrifice best chances of wiing ashes to fulfill his personal agendas. So much for team man ponting' date=' what a slfish cpatain he is proving to be[/quote']Not sure if having Hauritz in the team is Punter's call

[putrevus]

I didn't mean to give special credence to what Steve Waugh's opinion is and that is definitely not what is influencing my own viewpoint on Smith. I just feel it is too early to write him off...for that matter any other cricketer. 2 test matches here and there are not good enough reason to write someone off especially when he is still a kid. Fair to write off a 30+ candidate but not a kid like Smith.

not writing him off but what we have seen so far he neither a bowler nor a batsmen.SL have blooded their young All rounder who looks light on bowling but looks very good as a batsman , if Steve Smith is anywhere close to that guy in batting then it is right move since bowling wise he is crap.

[Nirvanam]

not writing him off but what we have seen so far he neither a bowler nor a batsmen.SL have blooded their young All rounder who looks light on bowling but looks very good as a batsman ' date=' if Steve Smith is anywhere close to that guy in batting then it is right move since bowling wise he is crap.[/quote']In this week's Shield game he got a couple of decent wickets...typical spinner ones - stumped and caught at slip. Let's see how things pan out...