Who was the better bowler - Marshall or Tendulkar?

[Sachin=GOD]

@Rett: if you want then I can put many, many videos of Goddy beating the living hell out of every good bowler in the world - be it Akhtar or Akram or Waqar or McGrath or Lee or Warne or Murali or Bond or Pollock etc etc etc.

[zen]

That's an excellent video of Kapil, rett. And this is the late 70s. Can anyone with an open mind imagine the quality of video in the 30s and 40s? Kapil is being made to look like a club level bowler or even worse in that footage.

Even a 13 years old kid would probably think twice before making an argument based on those video clips but am amazed by the arguments that some grown ups make here :P

[The Outsider]

^what wrong in digging video footage? Apart for this tht it exposes sheer amateur-ness of the 30s era?

The only thing those video footage expose are the inadequacy of technology in the 30s, as is evidenced by the above video of Kapil looking like a club bowler in the late 70s. Of course, morons like you would even go to the extent of saying Kapil was in fact of club bowler level, just to do your daily jaap of Tendulkar and Dhoni.

[zen]

@Rett: if you want then I can put many' date=' many videos of Goddy beating the living hell out of every good bowler in the world - be it Akhtar or Akram or Waqar or McGrath or Lee or Warne or Murali or Bond or Pollock etc etc etc.[/quote'] :stupid: Still you didn't get the point that videos don't mean much esp when one has limited footage

[The Outsider]

@Rett: if you want then I can put many' date=' many videos of Goddy beating the living hell out of every good bowler in the world - be it Akhtar or Akram or Waqar or McGrath or Lee or Warne or Murali or Bond or Pollock etc etc etc.[/quote'] Do you think Kapil was a club level bowler - based on that video, that is the only inference I can make?

[Sachin=GOD]

@Rett and The Outsider - are both of you trying to imply that the bowlers in the amateur era (in times of Bradman to be specific) were equal to bowlers of the professional era ?

[The Outsider]

:stupid: Still you didn't get the point that videos don't mean much esp when one has limited footage

It's not just about limited. It's of terrible quality. I have seen Kapil bowl in person and if anyone thinks that video does justice to his bowling quality then that person is simply an idiot - plain and simple.

[The Outsider]

@Rett and The Outsider - are both of you trying to imply that the bowlers in the amateur era (in times of Bradman to be specific) were equal to bowlers of the professional era ?

I think the more pertinent question is whether you think Kapil is anything more than a club level bowler based on the footage posted above?

[zen]

@Rett and The Outsider - are both of you trying to imply that the bowlers in the amateur era (in times of Bradman to be specific) were equal to bowlers of the professional era ?

What do you know about evolution?

[Sachin=GOD]

My point is very simple - we should draw a distinction between players of the amateur and professional era and comparing them is doing injustice to both of them because of the difference in playing conditions in different eras. I think it would be fair to say that Bradman was the greatest in the amateur era and Goddy is greatest in the professional era.

[The Outsider]

My point is very simple - we should draw a distinction between players of the amateur and professional era and comparing them is doing injustice to both of them because of the difference in playing conditions in different eras. I think it would be fair to say that Bradman was the greatest in the amateur era and Goddy is greatest in the professional era.

What's amateur and professional? Do you know that there were numerous professional cricketers during Bradman's time? Do you know that a lot of cricketers were professional cricketers in county cricket? Do you know that a lot of amateurs were better than the professionals of their times? Obviously, you don't, because if you did you not have been spouting these words without any understanding. I'll ask you once again - what level of a bowler does Kapil look in the footage rett posted of the late 70s? Does he look like someone who can take 1 test wicket, forget about 434?

[zen]

My point is very simple - we should draw a distinction between players of the amateur and professional era and comparing them is doing injustice to both of them because of the difference in playing conditions in different eras. I think it would be fair to say that Bradman was the greatest in the amateur era and Goddy is greatest in the professional era.

That's a wrong statement. To be the greatest one has to be way ahead of others and not slightly better. Apart from Bradman, the other top batsmen can be clubbed in the same league You may want to argue that Tendulkar as X amount of runs or Y amount of 100s but that due to him playing more games more than anything else. If he had scored like 17k-18k runs by now (in 175 tests so far) then he would have had a case to be "the greatest" amongst his peers To make it easier for you to understand: if three cars do 0-100 in say 5.2 sec, 5.1 sec and 5.0 sec respectively then the 3rd car doesn't automatically become the greatest. It only means that statistically, it is slightly faster than the other two cars. If a good driver were to drive the slightly slower car, he could still smoke the drivers of the other two cars. To be the greatest, a car has to reach a new level, like do 0-100 in say 4 sec :winky: Which is why if there is no Bradman then there is no greatest batsman.

[Sachin=GOD]

That's a wrong statement. To be the greatest one has to be way ahead of others and not slightly better. Apart from Bradman, the other top batsmen can be clubbed in the same league You may want to argue that Tendulkar as X amount of runs or Y amount of 100s but that due to him playing more games more than anything else. If he had scored like 17k-18k runs by now (in 175 tests so far) then he would have had a case to be "the greatest" amongst his peers Which is why if there is no Bradman then there is no greatest batsman.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=11;filter=advanced;orderby=runs;spanmin1=15+Nov+1989;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting he has made around 6500 runs and 28 centuries more than Ponting (who is at 2nd) and has played 102 more innings - if that is not being way ahead of the competition then I don't know what is. As for having played more games than everyone else - if Ponting can make 6500 runs (or even anything close to it) and 28 centuries in 102 innings then you can say that Goddy had made so many more runs and 100s only because of playing more matches. wait for sometime, 100 international centuries will become the new holy grail of cricket instead of 99.94.

[vaibhav_delhi]

^But then why Samaraveera is considered an average batsman despite averaging more than lara who is considered to be one of the greatest of last 20 yrs? you dont need to necessarily avg more than your peers to be considered the greatest of ur generation or greatest all time. maybe bradman was the only batsman of the 30s resembling a pro among all those amateurs? Coz I can easily imagine many of todays batsmen avg tht high if they faced what bradman faced.

[zen]

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=11;filter=advanced;orderby=runs;spanmin1=15+Nov+1989;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting he has made around 6500 runs and 28 centuries more than Ponting (who is at 2nd) and has played 102 more innings - if that is not being way ahead of the competition then I don't know what is. As for having played more games than everyone else - if Ponting can make 6500 runs (or even anything close to it) and 28 centuries in 102 innings then you can say that Goddy had made so many more runs and 100s only because of playing more matches. wait for sometime, 100 international centuries will become the new holy grail of cricket instead of 99.94.

:stupid: By posting the combined test, odi and t20 stats, you disqualified yourself by proving unworthy of a discussion It feels like a waste of time to even write this .... don't bother with me again!

[Sachin=GOD]

:stupid: By posting the combined test, odi and t20 stats, you disqualified yourself by proving unworthy of a discussion It feels like a waste of time to even write this .... don't bother with me again!

if the players of the modern era have played 3 formats then its only right that all 3 formats be considered while making comparisons between modern day players.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[The Outsider]

^ Godji, I am waiting for your answer to the question whether Kapil looks like anything more than a club bowler in the clip rett posted and whether he would be capable of picking up 434 test wickets on the evidence you see.

[zen]

if the players of the modern era have played 3 formats then its only right that all 3 formats be considered while making comparisons between modern day players.

That automatically gives disadvantage to the likes of Steve Waugh :giggle:

[zen]

You will find that nobody rates KD as a Tear away fast bowler ... with or without that footage ... secondly unlike say Mr. Ernie Toshack - who has a average that is Curtley Ambrose'esque but bowls like Anil Kumble - Kapil Dev has stats that are far inferior to Ernie Toshack. Iam sure you will agree that those stats would suit a KD or Srinath or even Zack much better. And while we are indulging in things like "Open Mind" feel free to enlighten us how a trundler like Ernie Toshack ended up with a bowling avg of 21. Either my understand of fast bowling is fundamentally wrong or people back then rated bowlers who bowled at near 90mph as "medium pacers". And speaking of old videos is this video also showing Holding to be a club bowler as it is older than the Kapil video ?

Cue : I suspect this is where hurling insults and throwing smilies will come in very handy for your side-kick if not for you.

:stupid: everytime he^ opens his mouth it's like 100 idiots have spoken at the same time .... it's obvious he doesn't even understand the concept behind that Kapil's video