Andy Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 Dhoni has done too Little to talk much about as Yet. hahaha can u tell me what is better than being no 1 in test cricket. So he took India From No 3 to Number 1, Ganguly Took India from No 6 to Number 3. Whats the difference? Now this is about Test Matches if you talk about Rankings. But If you talk about Tes Series Achivemnts Outside India against the Best Gangu has a better Record. He has more Wins than Dhoni. In Big Tournaments Ganguly has been more sucesfull than What Dhoni did. I do not want to Downplay MSD's achivemnts so far, He did the best he could, But if you resort to Downplay Gangulys achivemnts and Other Ex Captains who did the best Like Kumble Etc, I'll have to resort to Downplay Dhoni's Achivemnts.
Andy Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 Nothing indeed. And he deserves full credit for that as the captain of the team. He has been innovative, full of positive energy, optimism and confidence that he infects others with. This Indian team, great as they all are, probably could not have managed to occupy the no1 position under another captain. But we dont need to call Gaguly bad in order to praise Dhoni, do we? Ganguly came in at a time of utter disaster immediately after the fixing controversy, the worst days in Indian cricket history, and did a great job of collecting the team and taking it a much stronger position. My objection is not to calling Dhoni a better captain, which IMO he is. My objection is to calling undermining Gnaguly's contributions in the past. This.
don_corleone840 Posted January 1, 2011 Author Posted January 1, 2011 But If you talk about Tes Series Achivemnts Outside India against the Best Gangu has a better Record. He has more Wins than Dhoni. i dont know any series ganguly won outside subcontinent.
DomainK Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 But If you talk about Tes Series Achivemnts Outside India against the Best Gangu has a better Record. He has more Wins than Dhoni. i dont know any series ganguly won outside subcontinent. You are mistaking team achievements for a captain's success. A good captain is one who can marshal his resources, limited or in abundance, in the best way. A good captain is one who can get his team, great or ordinary, do their best on a cricket field. Winning however is not totally dependent on a captain's skills. Winning takes a good team as well. There is an age old saying "It's better to be a lucky captain than a good captain." A perfect example of a lucky captain IMO is Ricky Ponting. Inherited a great team which won matches for him for years making him look like the best captain in the world. But when the going got tough, Ponting's captaincy skills got exposed. If Dhoni was born in Zimbabwe, how many matches do you think he would have won with the same skills as a captain? Not too many. Not because he would have been a worse captain, but because his resources would have been far more limited. On the other hand, if Taibu was in charge of a team like Australia, he probably would have been considered one of the most successful captains ever. Dhoni is a great captain. Not just because of the number of matches he has won (which is a great achievement nonetheless) but because of the way he has managed the team, because of the way he has conducted himself in tough situations, because of the way he has accepted defeats and has drawn inspirations to win from losses. Match/series results is not the right scale to measure a captain's worth, whether it's Dhoni or ganguly or Ponting or taibu. But all things considered, IMO Dhoni is currently the best captain in the world and the best Indian captain ever.
Andy Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 But If you talk about Tes Series Achivemnts Outside India against the Best Gangu has a better Record. He has more Wins than Dhoni. i dont know any series ganguly won outside subcontinent. He has drawn many, And More importantly he drew the Series against the Best team in the world in their Backyard. I dont Remember Dhoni Doing that as Yet. And you need to Understand He transformed the Side, The post you Called 'Bla Bla Bla' has a complete explanation of that. How he transformed the side over the years. You cannot expect A team who never won Outside India Would Start Defeating England Aus , SA outside home instantly.
Sooda Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 One of the mian probs under Gangs was the lack of a good pace attack- sample the names who played test cricket for us around then men like Siddiqi, Yohannan, Kumaran too I think?, Agarkar played test cricket, Zaheer was not the bowler he is now, Balaji and Pathan shone very briefly. And as has been pointed out the keeper slot was a problem- Ratra, Dahiya, Dighe, Drop Das of course, Parthiv... bit of a merry go round. AND there was no Gambhir to partner Sehwag The batting under Ganguly was better as most players were around their peak years but bolwing, pace bowling esp sucked. If we had 2 or three test match quality pacemen to choose from in the early 00's we would have been seriously good- imagine Zaheer as he is bowling now in THAT side with Sree and Ishant supporing him... defending the totals we used to pile up... People say we underperformed in the Gangs era but considering the crappy pace bowlers we had, and just half of a test class opening duo...it wasnt bad Think nballa said Sri and Prasad were not a good new ball duo- actually they were pretty good, Prasad is generally underrated and away from home he was not bad at all- tours to SA and Eng in the mid 90's he did well on. Also I think Im right in saying that he had retired by the time Ganguly was skipper or certainly was out of the selectorial equation. What Ganguly and Wright did do was instill real professionalism and winning mentality within the team that was not there before. There was the in your face aggression that India VERY badly needed Tendulkar and Azhar were far too meek as Captains. That is his greatest legacy one that changed Indian cricket. I think its possibly fair to say he may not be as tactically good as MSD? More a leader by personality and example.
saneindian Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 Prasad actually helped Dada win his first test outside India excluding BD (in SL) by taking a 5-fer in the Kandy test on the 2001 tour. In fact on that tour, Prasad did quite well with 11-12 wickets in the series. Then we went to SA, Prasad played a couple of ODIs in the tri series, did reasonably well but was never picked again!! After the SA tour, we played England at home and we had brand new pacers in Iqbal Siddiquie and Yohanan who could not last even 6 months!
Sachin=GOD Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 Gnguly did an invaluable job by bringing together this team and instilling a winning mentality. When he became captain, the team was at its lowest ebb with the match fixing controversy and our poor record outside India. We were called "ghar ke sher". In the entire 1990s we played 33 matches outside the subcontinent but did not win even one of them and Ganguly had the very, very tough job of changing all that. The pace attack he had was quite ordinary (players like Sidiqi, Yohanan, Agarkar etc). He backed and fought with the selectors to bring players like Yuvi, Bhajji, Zak, Sehwag in the team. M$D has achieved a lot in a short time but Ganguly had a much tougher job IMO because he had fewer resources than M$D. Andy 1
Sooda Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_India_Test_cricketers List of Indian test debutants from about 2000ish to 2004 229 Shiv Sundar Das 2000 2002 23 1326 110 34.89 2/9 0 - - 0/0 34 0 230 Saba Karim 2000 2000 1 15 15 15.00 0/0 - - - - /- 1 0 231 Zaheer Khan 2000 2010 53 628 75 12.07 0/1 170 5/29 33.60 5/0 13 0 232 Vijay Dahiya 2000 2000 2 2 2* - 0/0 - - - - /- 6 0 233 Sarandeep Singh 2000 2002 3 43 39* 43.00 0/0 10 4/136 34.00 0/0 1 0 234 Rahul Sanghvi 2001 2001 1 2 2 1.00 0/0 2 2/67 39.00 0/0 0 0 235 Sairaj Bahutule 2001 2001 2 39 21* 13.00 0/0 3 1/32 67.66 0/0 1 0 236 Sameer Dighe 2001 2001 6 141 47 15.66 0/0 - - - - /- 12 2 237 Hemang Badani 2001 2001 4 94 38 15.66 0/0 0 - - 0/0 6 0 238 Deep Dasgupta 2001 2002 8 344 100 28.66 1/2 - - - - /- 13 0 239 Virender Sehwag 2001 2010 54[9] 4441 309 50.46 13/13 18 3/33 41.61 0/0 45 0 240 Sanjay Bangar 2001 2002 12 470 100* 29.37 1/3 7 2/23 49.00 0/0 4 0 241 Iqbal Siddiqui 2001 2001 1 29 24 29.00 0/0 1 1/32 48.00 0/0 1 0 242 Tinu Yohannan 2001 2002 3 13 8* - 0/0 5 2/56 51.20 0/0 1 0 243 Ajay Ratra 2002 2002 6 163 115* 18.11 1/0 0 - - 0/0 11 2 244 Parthiv Patel 2002 2004 19 669 69 31.85 0/4 - - - - /- 39 7 245 Lakshmipathy Balaji 2003 2005 8 51 31 5.66 0/0 27 5/76 37.18 1/0 1 0 246 Akash Chopra 2003 2004 10 437 60 23.00 0/2 - - - - /- 15 0 247 Yuvraj Singh 2003 2010 22 1018 169 32.83 3/3 3 2/9 40.33 0/0 24 0 248 Irfan Pathan 2003 2008 28 1041 102 29.74 1/6 100 7/59 31.41 7/2 8 0 249 Gautam Gambhir 2004 2010 14 692 139 32.95 7/3 - - - - /- 14 0 Just to show that there was still a degree of mediocrity in the Indian side that had to be compensated for by our great batsmen...
ZodiaC Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 Prasad actually helped Dada win his first test outside India excluding BD (in SL) by taking a 5-fer in the Kandy test on the 2001 tour. In fact on that tour, Prasad did quite well with 11-12 wickets in the series. Then we went to SA, Prasad played a couple of ODIs in the tri series, did reasonably well but was never picked again!! After the SA tour, we played England at home and we had brand new pacers in Iqbal Siddiquie and Yohanan who could not last even 6 months! Wasn't that a seamer friendly track? And was a low scoring match too IIRC where India had to chase 260+.
ZodiaC Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_India_Test_cricketers List of Indian test debutants from about 2000ish to 2004 229 Shiv Sundar Das 2000 2002 23 1326 110 34.89 2/9 0 - - 0/0 34 0 230 Saba Karim 2000 2000 1 15 15 15.00 0/0 - - - - /- 1 0 231 Zaheer Khan 2000 2010 53 628 75 12.07 0/1 170 5/29 33.60 5/0 13 0 232 Vijay Dahiya 2000 2000 2 2 2* - 0/0 - - - - /- 6 0 233 Sarandeep Singh 2000 2002 3 43 39* 43.00 0/0 10 4/136 34.00 0/0 1 0 234 Rahul Sanghvi 2001 2001 1 2 2 1.00 0/0 2 2/67 39.00 0/0 0 0 235 Sairaj Bahutule 2001 2001 2 39 21* 13.00 0/0 3 1/32 67.66 0/0 1 0 236 Sameer Dighe 2001 2001 6 141 47 15.66 0/0 - - - - /- 12 2 237 Hemang Badani 2001 2001 4 94 38 15.66 0/0 0 - - 0/0 6 0 238 Deep Dasgupta 2001 2002 8 344 100 28.66 1/2 - - - - /- 13 0 239 Virender Sehwag 2001 2010 54[9] 4441 309 50.46 13/13 18 3/33 41.61 0/0 45 0 240 Sanjay Bangar 2001 2002 12 470 100* 29.37 1/3 7 2/23 49.00 0/0 4 0 241 Iqbal Siddiqui 2001 2001 1 29 24 29.00 0/0 1 1/32 48.00 0/0 1 0 242 Tinu Yohannan 2001 2002 3 13 8* - 0/0 5 2/56 51.20 0/0 1 0 243 Ajay Ratra 2002 2002 6 163 115* 18.11 1/0 0 - - 0/0 11 2 244 Parthiv Patel 2002 2004 19 669 69 31.85 0/4 - - - - /- 39 7 245 Lakshmipathy Balaji 2003 2005 8 51 31 5.66 0/0 27 5/76 37.18 1/0 1 0 246 Akash Chopra 2003 2004 10 437 60 23.00 0/2 - - - - /- 15 0 247 Yuvraj Singh 2003 2010 22 1018 169 32.83 3/3 3 2/9 40.33 0/0 24 0 248 Irfan Pathan 2003 2008 28 1041 102 29.74 1/6 100 7/59 31.41 7/2 8 0 249 Gautam Gambhir 2004 2010 14 692 139 32.95 7/3 - - - - /- 14 0 Just to show that there was still a degree of mediocrity in the Indian side that had to be compensated for by our great batsmen...cc Jesus christ :cantstop:
Arun_dada Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 It's a shame comparing Dhoni with dada ! On any given day dada is thousand times better than Dada ! Dada rocks
don_corleone840 Posted January 1, 2011 Author Posted January 1, 2011 ganguly backed and fought with the selectors to bring players like Yuvi, Bhajji, Zak, Sehwag in the team. this is most stupid statement i ever heard.
saneindian Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 Wasn't that a seamer friendly track? And was a low scoring match too IIRC where India had to chase 260+. Yep it was. And Dada and Dravid batted wonderfully in the 2nd innings to take us home. The moronic Lankans bowled a waist high full toss on the leg side to Kaif, who tried to evade the ball, but got an edge which went for a 4 and left Dada on 98*. Bustards
Andy Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 Yep it was. And Dada and Dravid batted wonderfully in the 2nd innings to take us home. The moronic Lankans bowled a waist high full toss on the leg side to Kaif, who tried to evade the ball, but got an edge which went for a 4 and left Dada on 98*. Bustards So it looks like they have a Tradition of Denying Players Personal Milestones.
Andy Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 ganguly backed and fought with the selectors to bring players like Yuvi, Bhajji, Zak, Sehwag in the team. this is most stupid statement i ever heard. So Far anything that has been said in Favour of Ganguly looked stupid to You isnt it? Looks like You Hate Ganguly with Loads of Passion .
saneindian Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 So it looks like they have a Tradition of Denying Players Personal Milestones. yep, the morons repeated it with Sachin in the Cuttack ODI in 2009 as well and then of course the recent Randiv innocuous looking no ball to deny Sehwag the 100.
vaibhav_delhi Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 ganguly backed and fought with the selectors to bring players like Yuvi, Bhajji, Zak, Sehwag in the team. this is most stupid statement i ever heard. Gangs was a good captain. But there is No comparison with dhoni at all, dhoni should be an idol for evert aspiring captain arnd the world, would prolly go down as one of the best skippers ever in the history of the game. Btw, are you still in CTU ?
hari504504 Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 So it looks like they have a Tradition of Denying Players Personal Milestones. Respect to the Pakis on that one. It would have been so easy for any of their tail-enders to deny Kumble his 10-fer at Delhi by gifting their wicket to Srinath..especially Akram
Sachin=GOD Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 Gangs was a good captain. But there is No comparison with dhoni at all, dhoni should be an idol for evert aspiring captain arnd the world, would prolly go down as one of the best skippers ever in the history of the game. Btw, are you still in CTU ? talk about hero worshiping :muhaha:
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