Sehwag or Yusuf Pathan? Who's more destructive?

[pensionplan]

Individual instances don't matter. Fact is Miandad's away average was more than 25% lower than his home average. His record is poor against best teams of his time. He was good batsman no doubt, but to put in same category as Lara and Sachin, please. Then why leave out Chris Martin :-).

Let us keep the umpiring aspect out of this since there is always subjectivity involved and no matter what we say there is no way to determine if Miandad really benefited overall or not though me believes he perhaps got away a few times. Coming to clubbing Miandad with Lara, Ponting, Tendulkar etc when I listed great batsman it does not necessarily mean that each one is as good as others. Miandad did play well in all conditions. Averaging 34 in WI'es and 38 in Australia though it appears a little undercooked on the surface tells a slightly different story when one closely examines some of the games. As an example in the WI'es he played only two full series in his entire career one during his peak years and one towards the tail end of the career where he failed that also brought his average down in the WI'es. But that series where he played well and got those two centuries Pakistan almost won the series 2-0 in the WI'es in the 87-88 but for the bowlers not able to finish the tail in the 4th innings that resulted in Pak. losing and WI'es drawing it 1-1. Even in Australia he to me did well overall. Look it is not always the good looking averages alone that tells the full tale. Based on all I have seen or followed of Javed Miandad be it in WI'es or Aus or Eng or NZ he is as good a player as one would want in tough conditions who can play quality bowling really really well. He has that class. That is how I see it. Hope that explanation clears it up further.

[pensionplan]

It's wise cracks, because there was no malice or viciousness in my remarks so they could not have been vice cracks. Underlying point? LOL! In one post you are saying that Sehwag's second innings average of 30 disqualifies him from an all time great status, and when someone points out similar averages of Miandad against the best team of his era you accuse him of cherry picking and start waffling about two innings against WI - one of them against a rookies attack of Ambrose, Walsh, Patterson, and Benjamin with a combined experience of 28 test matches. .

Look my contention with Sehwag is not just his 30 average in the second innings alone. In my estimates he cannot be counted upon where time is of an essence in Tests when he becomes the least preferred in the VS/GG/RD/SRT/VVS line up. That is reflected in his stats directly as well. And also remember he played quite a few 2nd innings in his career. To me that will be an hindrance when people who pay attention to minute details beyond numbers judge him. Regards to Miandad or some of the other batsman I listed originally they as an overall package in all sorts of match situations will be better fits in my estimates. Does not necessarily mean that Javed is better or as good as the others I listed.

If you had followed cricket in the 80s you would have known that no one rated Miandad along with Gavaskar, Richards, and Chappell. And no one who watched cricket during that time does so either.

Yes I did. Though not the most talked about he was always viewed upon as a great batsman once his overall cricket career transpired being the junior most of that group. And his style of batting overall did not help him much either though he was very effective and a class player.

But cricinfo has made this wonderful statsguru where people like you can run some queries and find, 'Oh Oh Miandad average as much as Lara, so must have been as good as him'

You could do the same too. So let us not implicate each other.

[The Outsider]

Look my contention with Sehwag is not just his 30 average in the second innings alone.

Your first post in this thread mentions Sehwag's average of 30 in the second innings. If not the only factor, it sure is the primary factor and apply the same level of consistency to Miandad.

In my estimates he cannot be counted upon where time is of an essence in Tests when he becomes the least preferred in the VS/GG/RD/SRT/VVS line up. That is reflected in his stats directly as well. And also remember he played quite a few 2nd innings in his career. To me that will be an hindrance when people who pay attention to minute details beyond numbers judge him.

You look to be infatuated by numbers. When time is of essence he is the least preferred option? Can you name me who else could have won us the Madras test where time was of essence? I assume you are talking about scenarios where draw is the only possibility - fine. Every batsman in the line up has a role. Sehwag's role is not to play out 5 sessions to draw a test match, just like Dravid's role is not to go out and smash a 100 runs off his blade in the first session.

Regards to Miandad or some of the other batsman I listed originally they as an overall package in all sorts of match situations will be better fits in my estimates. Does not necessarily mean that Javed is better or as good as the others I listed.

Then why list them in the same breath? Miandad was a very good batsman - nothing more, nothing less.

Yes I did. Though not the most talked about he was always viewed upon as a great batsman once his overall cricket career transpired being the junior most of that group. And his style of batting overall did not help him much either though he was very effective and a class player.

All time great? Better than Sehwag? Those are the questions we are talking about.

You could do the same too. So let us not implicate each other.

But, I don't - therein lies the difference.

[pensionplan]

You look to be infatuated by numbers. When time is of essence he is the least preferred option? Can you name me who else could have won us the Madras test where time was of essence? I assume you are talking about scenarios where draw is the only possibility - fine. Every batsman in the line up has a role. Sehwag's role is not to play out 5 sessions to draw a test match, just like Dravid's role is not to go out and smash a 100 runs off his blade in the first session. .

There are exceptions always and that Madras knock versus England VS did indeed give us that wonderful start which SRT and YS finished. That is a rare gem which I have no qualms admitting. But to win Test matches if you see overall there is no need to go bang bang for most part as much as you need your best players while batting to set up wins on 4th and 5th days or achieve creditable draws. That is where Sehwag's lags in my opinion overall when on 4th and 5th days essentially he comes up short where the double faced worn out pitches seems to get the better of him for most part.

All time great? Better than Sehwag? Those are the questions we are talking about.

There is a lot of subjectivity involved there. I usually make my points and leave it at that. Personally I think Miandad is a better Test batsman than Sehwag at this point(remember VS has someway to go before his career ends) and I would rate both Lara and Tendulkar better than Miandad.

But, I don't - therein lies the difference.

That is fine. But to me that does not make a difference as long as the person makes sense and explains his POV clearly though one may disagree with it.

[don_corleone840]

Miandad Fans Really Sucks OOPS SORRY DAWOOD BHAI

[falconhawk]

Wake up everyone. I started the thread comparing Sehwag with Yusuf Pathan. Where did Miandad come from? Who is he?

[ganeshran]

Let us hope we can all smile even broader when the WC ends for the common good of all the Indian cricket fans. If not we will not only be disappointed at not winning the WC but also have to deal with Tendulkar being the only cricketer in the history of the game to play six WC's without winning one.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

[Sachin=GOD]

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

[MCcricket]

Apples Oranges , Sehwag is a proper bat, PATHAN IS A HITTER.

[nballa]

Yousuf Pathan obviously. granted the pitch should be as flat as an american highway, granted the bowlers are the same quality as the ones who play for an engineering college cricket team, granted the boundaries are pulled in to 55 meters. even taking all these things into consideration YP is probably destructive than VS.

[Karan114]

Let us hope we can all smile even broader when the WC ends for the common good of all the Indian cricket fans. If not we will not only be disappointed at not winning the WC but also have to deal with Tendulkar being the only cricketer in the history of the game to play six WC's without winning one.

[Jersey #10]

Yousuf more destructive but Sehwag consistently destructive and effective

[bhanu]

Yousuf more destructive but Sehwag consistently destructive and effective

This :two_thumbs_up: