Sachin=GOD Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: So a rapist is not part of the common public? With all due respect, I think the trouble is your understanding of the English language. I suppose you want to say that a rapist is not a representative of the common man in India. Fair enough. But why is it that female European visitors are subjected to rape on numerous occassions only in India? As per most desis Africa and africans are supposedly inferior to India and Indians, how come the record of rape of foreign visitors in India is then worse than africa? I have no pre-conceived notions on this, I am just more realistic about India. I think you more pessimistic rather than realistic about India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I think you more pessimistic rather than realistic about India. How is the term "pessimist" relevant here? I am sorry,I don't quite follow what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowU Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I think you more pessimistic rather than realistic about India. But what hes saying has some truth it. We all like to look at the rosy picture and ignore the *****y side of the story. But we all have to face up to it sooner then later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: So a rapist is not part of the common public? With all due respect, I think the trouble is your understanding of the English language. I suppose you want to say that a rapist is not a representative of the common man in India. Fair enough. But why is it that female European visitors are subjected to rape on numerous occassions only in India? As per most desis Africa and africans are supposedly inferior to India and Indians, how come the record of rape of foreign visitors in India is then worse than africa? I have no pre-conceived notions on this, I am just more realistic about India. Yes. I meant to say that common man in India is not rapist or rapist is not representative of common man. Anyways that is a moot point here. But I still don't get this logic - Rape rates are high in country, so cheerleaders are justified. Tomorrow if rape rates do down, cheerleaders will not be justified?? I am sorry, premise of this argument seems that common man of India approves rapes so why they should have problems with cheerleaders. I don't think that is the case. Deal with issues independently and don't confuse between crime and culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 The opposite of a realist is an idealist' date=' how is the term "pessimist" relevant here?[/quote'] No offense but from some of your posts I get the view that you think there's no hope left for India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Yes. I meant to say that common man in India is not rapist or rapist is not representative of common man. Anyways that is a moot point here. But I still don't get this logic - Rape rates are high in country, so cheerleaders are justified. Tomorrow if rape rates do down, cheerleaders will not be justified?? I am sorry, premise of this argument seems that common man of India approves rapes so why they should have problems with cheerleaders. I don't think that is the case. Deal with issues independently and don't confuse between crime and culture. That is not my argument at all. I don't care whether you have cheerleaders or not. I just find it hypocritical for a country with such a record of violence against women to claim that our "culture" is superior and therefore we shouldn't have cheerleaders. Quite clearly the crime rates are an indication that your culture is not as glorious as you think it is. Zap was quite right in saying culture is not necessarily only the 1000 years old past, it is also a reflection of current society and its actions. I am not making a case for having cheerleaders. I am just saying that the overall hnadling of this episode is draconian and continues to show the total violation of personal freedom and rights of an individual which is practised in India. In this case of the blog was a violation of her contractual clause you could have sacked her but kicking her out of the country was irrational. If it was not part of her contract then the only option was for the concerned player to sue her is court for slander. However the actions actually taken do not represent any such due process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 It is surprising that many of you have this view about privacy. It almost exactly mirrors Britain's draconian privacy laws which grants celebrities right to get injunctions against newspapers from publishing anything about them. What privacy laws are you talking about? The thing here is that the cheer leader's contract would have had a "non disclosure" clause, which bars her from sharing the sordid details of the IPL parties and whatnot while she is employed. She breached that clause. She got fired. Simple as that. Having said that, I don't know why you broke out into a tirade against Indians misbehaving. The article clearly said that it was the South African ( Smith) and an Australian cricketer who were the ones misbehaving. Is it an integral part of contemporary western culture too? If you have problems with what she wrote sue her for slander or libel but kicking her out of the country is just childish. The cricketer did have problems with what she wrote. Which is why he complained to the IPL daddies. which resulted in her firing/banishment However, if he tried to take her to court over slander, there is no way he could win it. Because what she said is true. An immature country with a horrendous recent culture (what Zap mentioned) and freedom which mirrors the middle east = India. Freedom that mirrors the Middle East? In terms of constitutional rights pertaining to economic activity ( especially those that relate to taxation, land ownership, appealing to the government for subsidies or protectionism of a certain category of products) a very recent McKenzie group study has rated India > Iran > Welfare state of Sweden>UK. I'd rather we mirror a Middle Eastern country than Europa. Any ways, that culture comment was very harsh of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 In this case of the blog was a violation of her contractual clause you could have sacked her but kicking her out of the country was irrational. If a foreigner who is in a country on a working visa loses employment, the government has every right to ask him/her to leave. BTW Zap, how many cheerleaders should be allowed per capita rape in India. Let's say rape increase by 10% in the next year, should IPL hire 10% more cheerleaders to maintain the balance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Let me get this straight. A South African cheerleader alleges that an Australian cricketer misbehaves with her and other cheer leaders, and it is we Indians who are hypocritical and have a culture of molestation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Depends on what your definition of Culture is. I regard Culture as the way of life of the majority at a certain period of time. Our current culture is mirrored by how we are living right now. Some might think that culture is how we lived 50 years ago or during the ages of the kama sutra. To me' date=' the current hypocrisy regarding sex and high rate of molestation in India is just mind boggling.[/quote'] I agree with your definition. Lets be honest and make a distinction between culture and lawlessness. Yes there is high rate of molestation ( at least in Urban centres) and it is mind boggling. I don't know what you mean by hypocrisy regarding sex, but all this is distinct from culture. Molesting girls in public transport is as much a part of Indian 'culture' as bashing Indian students is a part of Australian 'culture'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 What privacy laws are you talking about? The thing here is that the cheer leader's contract would have had a "non disclosure" clause' date=' which bars her from sharing the sordid details of the IPL parties and whatnot while she is employed. She breached that clause. She got fired. Simple as that.[/quote'] IF there was such a non disclosure clause the sackig is fine. However frog marching her out of the country is still not correct. I wonder how Indians would react if they were thrown out on their ear from another country. Because of all that bashan from some idiots about the "superior" Indian "culture". Khaak superior. They were not "misbehaving", they were angling for women which is quite common everywhere and I have no problem with that. THAT! This is why I said that the approach is draconian. Preventing someone from speaking the truth. 1. I am sad when educated people come up with the economic argument. Social welfare is what is needed in a country like India. The worst part is we still use economic growth as an indicator of well being even after Amartya Sen our nobel laureate was the one who gave the world the Human development Index. 2. Reports such as this are motivated by many things, I don't put any stock in a report which considers Iran in any human rights perspective superior to Sweden. 3. If you prefer the "civil rights" of a middle eastern country, I am happy for you. Let me know if you want trendy hijaabs, I know quite a few shops in the ME region which I can recommend. 4. The culture comment was maybe harsh, I apologize for hurting your feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Depends on what your definition of Culture is. I regard Culture as the way of life of the majority at a certain period of time. Our current culture is mirrored by how we are living right now. Some might think that culture is how we lived 50 years ago or during the ages of the kama sutra. To me' date= the current hypocrisy regarding sex and high rate of molestation in India is just mind boggling. The way of life of the majority in India is to rape and molest? WTF! :hysterical: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 If a foreigner who is in a country on a working visa loses employment' date= the government has every right to ask him/her to leave. BTW Zap, how many cheerleaders should be allowed per capita rape in India. Let's say rape increase by 10% in the next year, should IPL hire 10% more cheerleaders to maintain the balance? You know perfectly well that if you lose your job you are not instantly frog marched to the airport. You are just being dishonest there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 IF there was such a non disclosure clause the sackig is fine. However frog marching her out of the country is still not correct. I wonder how Indians would react if they were thrown out on their ear from another country. Which cocoon do you live in? Happens all the time - hundreds of thousands of Indians have been asked to leave the US if they've lost employment while on a H-1B visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomainK Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 The discussion is all over the place. It's a matter of professional ethics and contractual obligation. Where exactly Indian culture feature in this??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubrickian Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 While I do agree that crime rate in India is a concern, to equate that with the culture of India and to say billions of people are somehow responsible for the actions of a few is retarded. I also dont understand how that has anything to do with this cheerleader in particular. This case has more to do with her naming some individuals in a blog which didnt sit well with them and thereby breaking some clause in her contract which got her kicked out. Nothing to do with Indian culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 You know perfectly well that if you lose your job you are not instantly frog marched to the airport. You are just being dishonest there. All we have is the word of an employee who was fired after breaking her contract. If that's enough for you, good on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 All we have is the word of an employee who was fired after breaking her contract. If that's enough for you' date=' good on you.[/quote'] Wasn't the word of some cricketer enough to get her kicked out? How is her word any less valuable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Which cocoon do you live in? Happens all the time - hundreds of thousands of Indians have been asked to leave the US if they've lost employment while on a H-1B visa. Here in Europe you have time of atleast a month after you lose your job to leave the country. I don't know whether you have to leave immediately in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 @ Gunner : The report wasn't about civil rights but rights when it comes to say opening a business or how the local law abets/hinders acquiring product from outside which may bring in more competition and hence hit the local players etc. And Iran indeed is a better place, especially if you are an entrepreneur, either local or foreign than Sweden even though you may not have civil liberties there. As per the report. But lets end this here. This is just digressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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