How long should we persist with players before discarding them

[gsivak]

I think it makes sense to persist with players if they show a dedication to play and have a smidgeon of talent. Raina should be persisted with since he shows his commitment to the team in any game that he plays...I honestly dont see that with Rohit.

[saneindian]

Ya. A testimony to the fact that our domestic system worked. India started picking test players from One dayers in the early 2000s. That is exactly when we stopped finding good test match players. Kaif's highest first class score was 136 and average was around 35 when he was picked for Tests. He was not even a success in ODIs. But somehow he played few tests which yielded average results. Players with decent first class record were not given enough chances. I am glad Dravid was picked for Tests inspite of poor start to his ODI career.

One of the reasons for not picking Ranji stalwarts was the international failure of the likes of Devang Gandhi, Jacob Martin, Kanitkar, Sriram, Khoda, Somasunder, Connor Williams etc in the late 90s, early 2000s. All heavy scorers in domestic cricket but could not cut it in international cricket. Those guys perhaps lacked the temprament needed for highest level.

[Karan114]

Main thing in Laxman's case was that he forced his way back into the team through sheer weight of FC runs. Problem is that the young batsmen like Raina who are struggling at Test level don't have that chance to play a full season of FC matches because they are always involved with the ODI team.

[vvvslaxman]

One of the reasons for not picking Ranji stalwarts was the international failure of the likes of Devang Gandhi' date=' Jacob Martin, Kanitkar, Sriram, Khoda, Somasunder, Connor Williams etc in the late 90s, early 2000s. All heavy scorers in domestic cricket but could not cut it in international cricket. Those guys perhaps lacked the temprament needed for highest level.[/quote'] Apart from Gandhi nobody in your list played Tests if i remember right. Are you saying we should give chances to players who flopped in domestic cricket like Kaif? I don't say we should not look at other aspects of their game despite domestic success. But Dravid, Laxman were all heavy scorers in domestic cricket. If you don't display temperament to play big innings in the domestic cricket the odds of displaying at the Test level is very minimal. Irani Trophy has been one of the premiere tournament that was used to select players. Vengsarkar came into INdian side because of his performance in Irani Trophy. Kumble made a second come back after his display in Irani Trophy.

[vvvslaxman]

Main thing in Laxman's case was that he forced his way back into the team through sheer weight of FC runs. Problem is that the young batsmen like Raina who are struggling at Test level don't have that chance to play a full season of FC matches because they are always involved with the ODI team.

That is exactly where players hone their temperament. Decent pitches, Decent umpires will go a long way to help produce such players. In recent times there have been complaints about lot of under prepared pitches in domestic cricket where even ordinary seamer runs through an opposition. Either that or it is an absolute patta.

[Karan114]

Apart from Gandhi nobody in your list played Tests if i remember right. Are you saying we should give chances to players who flopped in domestic cricket like Kaif? I don't say we should not look at other aspects of their game despite domestic success. But Dravid' date= Laxman were all heavy scorers in domestic cricket. If you don't display temperament to play big innings in the domestic cricket the odds of displaying at the Test level is very minimal. Irani Trophy has been one of the premiere tournament that was used to select players. Vengsarkar came into INdian side because of his performance in Irani Trophy. Kumble made a second come back after his display in Irani Trophy.

Completely agree with this. You need players to score heavily at FC level as a minimum in Indian cricket. Then you filter out the guys who aren't quite good enough for Test cricket from the special ones like Gambhir, Sehwag and Laxman, who have that extra something needed for the highest level.

[saneindian]

Apart from Gandhi nobody in your list played Tests if i remember right. Are you saying we should give chances to players who flopped in domestic cricket like Kaif? I don't say we should not look at other aspects of their game despite domestic success. But Dravid' date=' Laxman were all heavy scorers in domestic cricket. If you don't display temperament to play big innings in the domestic cricket the odds of displaying at the Test level is very minimal. Irani Trophy has been one of the premiere tournament that was used to select players. Vengsarkar came into INdian side because of his performance in Irani Trophy. Kumble made a second come back after his display in Irani Trophy.[/quote'] Kanitkar played tests, Williams got picked played in practice matches but was found to have been technically inefficient, same with Jacob martin. The likes of Khoda, Sriram , Somasunder etc got picked for ODIs, failed to do well. Anyways I was just conjecturing on one of the probable reasons why selectors started picking players who did well in ODIs for tests as well. First class stats do give you an idea about a player but they do not tell you the complete story all the time. I completely agree with the Irani Trophy part. In fact, I always believe performance in irani and Duleep Trophy should be given more importance compared to Ranji performances for the simple reason that the quality of competition is better than that at Ranji. About Kaif, I guess it was more of a punt by the selectors or a knee jerk reaction. We had won the u-19 WC just before the SA series in 2000, the team had been battered in Australia 3-0 (hence the likes of Gandhi, martin, kanitkar etc were out of favour), then in the first test Jadeja failed to do anything , we lost on a pitch tailormade for our team.

[rkt.india]

Apart from Gandhi nobody in your list played Tests if i remember right. Are you saying we should give chances to players who flopped in domestic cricket like Kaif? I don't say we should not look at other aspects of their game despite domestic success. But Dravid' date=' Laxman were all heavy scorers in domestic cricket. If you don't display temperament to play big innings in the domestic cricket the odds of displaying at the Test level is very minimal. Irani Trophy has been one of the premiere tournament that was used to select players. Vengsarkar came into INdian side because of his performance in Irani Trophy. Kumble made a second come back after his display in Irani Trophy.[/quote'] I think even Debang Gandhi had a great start to his career but he failed in Australia in 1999 where even Dravid and Ganguly failed and he was out after that series...if anyone can tell more about it.... Problem, on those days, selectors were not habitual of showing much patience in players. HE started well i his first test and then he could not play well in Australia, not many Indian batsmen have done well in Australia on their first tour where conditions are exactly opposite to India. Many players did not get enough chances on those days. If likes of Raina and Rohit Sharma were present at that time, they woudl have been lost somewhere by now, nut now selectors give players some time before discarding.

[saneindian]

I think even Debang Gandhi had a great start to his career but he failed in Australia in 1999 where even Dravid and Ganguly failed and he was out after that series...if anyone can tell more about it....

The way Gandhi played on that tour, he did not deserve a spot. Terrified of pacers even in practice matches. The way he used to move outside the leg stump was a shocking sight. After that tour, we played SA. There was no way selectors were going to pick him against the likes of Donald and Hayward.

[Jersey #10]

Man of the series in the World cup averages **** but it's more about the proper contribution when needed.

[rkt.india]

The way Gandhi played on that tour, he did not deserve a spot. Terrified of pacers even in practice matches. The way he used to move outside the leg stump was a shocking sight. After that tour, we played SA. There was no way selectors were going to pick him against the likes of Donald and Hayward.

I didnt watch that series...so I dont know how he played there.