Ponting vs Kallis

[Cricket Tragic]

This wasn't really debated at all until very recently. So, who is the better batsman? Ponting Matches 152 Runs 12363 Hundreds 39 Avg 53.51 Kallis Matches 145 Runs 11947 Hundreds 40 Avg 57.43 Both have one country where they have been very poor (India for RP and Eng for Kallis). Kallis doesn't have a great record in SL either while Ponting's record in England is solid but not outstanding. Points to note: 1) This is about only batting. So keep bowling, captaincy, sledging, ability of spitting on hands, hair transplant etc out of it. 2) Test cricket wonly. So don't bring in Tontee Tontee, ODIs, Circus league, Max cricket etc into it.

[cricketsangeeta]

I think Kallis is better as if we see only batting as, as he played most of the innings under pressure and have less long term players in SA team.

[Sidhoni]

A really close contest, but Australia always had a better team , better openers and better middle-order batsmen as compared to South Africa, so Kaliis played under more amount of pre3ssure and he has held South African cricket on his shoulders for a quite a long period of time, so my vote goes to Kallis. P.S.:plz add a poll.

[Holysmoke]

Ponting.

[Bublu Bhuyan]

Ponting >>>>>>>>>>> Kallis.

[Sachin=GOD]

Ponting as a batsman and Kallis as a cricketer.

[Bublu Bhuyan]

This piece shares my exact opinion on Kallis -

Jacques Kallis doesn't rate despite having the best all-rounder's stats

NO all-rounder in the history of Test cricket, including Sir Garfield Sobers, has statistics that compare with South African Jacques Kallis. Yet ask cricketers, past and present, where Kallis sits on the list of great all-rounders and you won't find the 33-year-old in the top 10. Kallis has scored 9801 runs in 125 Tests at an average of 55.06 and taken 245 wickets at a highly respectable 30.92. And while he has scored 30 centuries, he has never made a double hundred. Those figures stack up very well against Sobers, who made 8032 runs at 57.78 in 93 Tests and took 235 wickets at 34.03. And Sobers is widely regarded as the game's greatest all-rounder. Why doesn't Kallis receive the recognition his record deserves? It comes down to how you play the game, according to a couple of Australians who have played with and against some of the world's best all-rounders. In Keith Stackpole's mind, Kallis is a "selfish cricketer". "You watch him bat and you are left with the feeling he bats for his average," said Stackpole, who scored seven tons in 43 Tests as an opener. "And you ask yourself, 'Would I have wanted to play with him?'. The answer is no because he plays for himself. "He doesn't rate against players such as Gary Sobers, Imran Khan, Keith Miller, Adam Gilchrist, Richard Hadlee, Kapil Dev and Ian Botham. "Of that group, I would have to place Sobers at one, ahead of Imran, Miller, Hadlee and Gilchrist. Imran Khan was a super cricketer. "And don't forget another South African in Clive Rice, who was hurt more by apartheid than any other great cricketer. "Tony Greig is another who doesn't get the recognition he deserves. "To me he was every bit as good as Ian Botham." Former Australia quick Rodney Hogg played against Imran, Hadlee, Botham, Kapil, Malcolm Marshall and Rice and saw Sobers on two West Indies tours of Australia. "Sobers has to be rated on top but I have enormous respect for Imran, and while Hadlee wasn't as good with the bat, he is clearly the best bowler of those all-rounders like Kapil, Botham and Marshall," Hogg said. "Botham's shocking record against the great West Indies teams counts against him. "Rice I played against on two tours of South Africa in the mid-'80s and remember him as someone who wanted to kill you with every ball. "Kallis is a flat-track bully, who dishes it out to the minnows like Bangladesh and Zimbabwe but goes missing against the Australians. "Sobers played more than half of his Tests against England and Australia, whereas Kallis has picked up around 1000 runs and 40 wickets against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. They shouldn't count. "Kallis is a player at age 33 that we will really target in this Test series. And he is boring to watch as a bowler, just constantly bowling outside off-stump." Rice made 26,331 first-class runs (48 centuries) at 40.95 and took 930 wickets at 22.49 for Transvaal, Nottinghamshire, Scotland and Natal. Irrespective of where you rate Kallis, what becomes evident when investigating all-rounders is the number of high quality batsmen-bowlers and batsmen-keepers produced in South Africa. Eddie Barlow, Mark Boucher, Trevor Goddard, Kallis, Denis Lindsay, Brian McMillan, Shaun Pollock, Mike Procter, Rice and John Waite all qualify for the all-rounder tag. All would walk into any Test team today, given the lack of genuine all-rounders. England's Andrew Flintoff is one such player, when fit, and New Zealand's Daniel Vettori has batted well enough in the past five years to be rated an all-rounder. Australia continues to search for a genuine all-rounder, a search that has been going on since Miller retired 50 years ago. Alan Davidson was a great cricketer but more a bowler than batsman, Gary Gilmour showed glimpses of class and there has been nobody since to nail down the spot, although players such as Phil Carlson, Ken Macleay, Trevor Laughlin and Glenn Trimble have been tried. Steve Waugh was clearly the best, claiming 92 wickets at 37.44 before reducing his bowling output because of back problems.

Link: http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket/kallis-has-stats-but-doesnt-rate/story-e6frf3g3-1111118261325

[Sachin=GOD]

V_D :shout:

[Khalpat]

Ponting, the reason being For most of their respective careers, the best bowling team have been South Africa for Ponting and Australia for Kallis. Here Ponting has an edge over Kallis, he averages 56 against South Africa and Kallis averages 40 against Australia. Also if we look into their average country wise, we will find Ponting is more consistent. Even against India his average is 47 which is not bad. Where as Kallis has very poor average against Srilanka only 33. Few of the shots played by Ponting are really treat to watch. Such as his pull shot. Therefore for me Ponting is winner

[Tendya]

Tests: Ponting is clearly the better batsman, he is a special talent and has won numerous matches on his own despite being in a strong team, Kallis also coming from a strong team rarely wins matches for you either through his batting or bowling. ODIs: No one can still forget the way he murdered India's attack on March 24 2003, yet Kallis is more consistent and averages more. I would still pick Ponting due to Kallis's exceptional Strike rate Cricketer as a whole: Despite Ponting's captaincy records and him being an exceptional fielder, Kallis is the better cricketer on account of his bowling

[Pagalpanti]

Both are too close. I rate Kallis as a better player of spin than Ponting.

[putrevus]

Kallis had incredible last two years which coincidentally matched with Ponting's lack of form during that period. But Kallis is more like Dravid very underrated.

[Zelig]

Kallis, if I want to save a Test match and Ponting, if I want to win one.

[Sidhoni]

Ponting, the reason being For most of their respective careers, the best bowling team have been South Africa for Ponting and Australia for Kallis. Here Ponting has an edge over Kallis, he averages 56 against South Africa and Kallis averages 40 against Australia. Also if we look into their average country wise, we will find Ponting is more consistent. Even against India his average is 47 which is not bad. Where as Kallis has very poor average against Srilanka only 33. Few of the shots played by Ponting are really treat to watch. Such as his pull shot. Therefore for me Ponting is winner

Against India , he's averaging well, but his stats IN India are really poor.

[Sidhoni]

Add a poll :orderorder:

[hify_ameet]

I think since 90's, the yardstick for measuring better batsman has been comparisons with SRT. so: > Mid 90's = Brian Lara > Early 2000 = Padosi Aaloo (Inzi) > Mid Noughties = Ponting > Late Naughties = Kallis. So at this moment, we can say, Kallis is better than Ponting, but 3 years ago Ponting was better than Kallis.

[Raghav_12]

As i have always mentioned Ponting was five year phenomena which lasted from 2002-2006. Either side of these five years his numbers are pretty average. I myself don't have access to cricinfo in office :mad:, so somebody can put Ponting's numbers for these five years vis-a-vis outside of these five years. I myself don't rate these five years (2002-06) of excellent records of Ponting much as these were exactly five years where Australia was at it's very best. All australian players, batsmen or bowlers were going great guns and accumulated good amount of runs and wickets, respectively. You can take record of Hayden, Langer, Hussey, Gilchrist, Warne, McGrath etc for these five years and you'll see all of these are great - though may not be as great as for Ponting. Ponting's real test was always going to be period after departure of these other greats and where he has failed miserably. So even though I would love to watch Ponting's strokeplay anyday ahead of Kalli's, but as batsman overall I would rate Kallis ahead of Ponting.

[Asoka]

Ponting is a proven matchwinner. Kallis can't win you matches.

[VRV Singh]

Ponting. Much of that is aesthetic for me, are there many better sights than Ponting's pull? No offence to Kallis who is clearly very good, but the wow factor has never been there, stats or no stats.

[Raghav_12]

As i have always mentioned Ponting was five year phenomena which lasted from 2002-2006. Either side of these five years his numbers are pretty average. I myself don't have access to cricinfo in office :mad:, so somebody can put Ponting's numbers for these five years vis-a-vis outside of these five years. I myself don't rate these five years (2002-06) of excellent records of Ponting much as these were exactly five years where Australia was at it's very best. All australian players, batsmen or bowlers were going great guns and accumulated good amount of runs and wickets, respectively. You can take record of Hayden, Langer, Hussey, Gilchrist, Warne, McGrath etc for these five years and you'll see all of these are great - though may not be as great as for Ponting. Ponting's real test was always going to be period after departure of these other greats and where he has failed miserably. So even though I would love to watch Ponting's strokeplay anyday ahead of Kalli's, but as batsman overall I would rate Kallis ahead of Ponting.

Following are Pontings numbers outside above mentioned 5 years (2002-06, which were incidentally best years of Australian cricket.) http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/7133.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;season=1995%2F96;season=1996%2F97;season=1997;season=1997%2F98;season=1998%2F99;season=1999;season=1999%2F00;season=2000%2F01;season=2001;season=2001%2F02;season=2007%2F08;season=2008;season=2008%2F09;season=2009;season=2009%2F10;season=2010;season=2010%2F11;template=results;type=batting 98 tests, 6500 runs @43.33, 16 centuries His numbers for his best period of 5 years (Season 2002 to season 06-07) - 54 tests, 5863 runs @72.38, 23 centuries One can see how Pontings performed when Australia needed him most.