So, what was wrong with this pitch, Bhajji?

[Fontaine]

Testimony to his stamina. During this crappy bhaji era we have gone to no 1 in world and won 2 diff world cups. With bhaji being constant theme. Apparently he has played no part in this' date=' none at all![/quote'] No one is saying he didn't play his part, least of all me. I'm rather philosophical about it now having seen him be up and down for quite some time now. I don't expect him to be a constant wicket taking strike bowler. More like a guy who can take two/three wickets in a test match and occasionally take a few more when the conditions are right/pace bowlers have taken a lot of the top order wickets and the batting is weak/under pressure. A lot like Paul Harris actually. SA's fast bowlers do most of the hard work and Harris is just expected to keep things tight and take the odd wicket or two here and there. Dhoni pretty much sees it the same way. In this series he was bringing on Ishant as the strike bowler and didn't go to Bhajji first when India really needed a wicket.

[King Tendulkar]

Look bhaji is not going to be as good as warne or murali. No current indian spinner will be. We need to appreciate what he does and lower our expectations. He gets his wickets through often stamina and determination, all credit to him. He does not have the magic ball but still he plays great role and often helps get the job done.

[Fontaine]

Look bhaji is not going to be as good as warne or murali. No current indian spinner will be. We need to appreciate what he does and lower our expectations. He gets his wickets through often stamina and determination' date=' all credit to him. He does not have the magic ball but still he plays great role and often helps get the job done.[/quote'] Yup, I see it the same way. I personally think the milestone of reaching 400 made it a lot more difficult for him. Now that's he past that landmark he can forget about it and start bowling better. I think he bowls best when there's no pressure on him and he takes an early wicket. Unfortunately that hasn't been the case a lot of the times but with Zaheer/Ishant we've got two bowlers who have the ability to the leaders of the attack and let Harbhajan do his own thing. Kumble was obviously different. He not only was a great bowler but time and time again had no problem taking on the responsibility almost single handedly. Bhajji isn't like that mentally.

[The Outsider]

Comparing Dravid and Harbhajan - oh the delusions!

[King Tendulkar]

^Bhaji is our 3rd highest wicket taker ever, your thoughts?

[The Outsider]

^Bhaji is our 3rd highest wicket taker ever' date=' your thoughts?[/quote'] Yeah, he has been a good work horse who has declined. I don't care a lot for these volume records - on skills I would rate him along with Dilip Doshi, and before you deride me I consider him a pretty fine bowler and below the entire spin quartet except Venkataraghavan, below Mankad, below Gupte, and obviously below Kumble.

[Fontaine]

Yeah' date=' he has been a good work horse who has declined.[/quote'] Yeah I see it the same way. He was pretty special early in his career but I think injuries and age are catching up to him now. Most spin bowlers are in their prime at 30/31 but Bhajji has so much mileage on him. I don't expect him to improve but play at the same level he's been playing for a while (strike rate of 65+) until he really starts to decline in a few years just like Murali/Kumble in their last year. The one positive thing has been his batting. As long as he can keep that up I can't see the management being brave enough to drop him, but it does give the rest of the guys like Ashwin/Ojha a little more time to get better.

[gaurav92]

Yeah I see it the same way. He was pretty special early in his career but I think injuries and age are catching up to him now. Most spin bowlers are in their prime at 30/31 but Bhajji has so much mileage on him. I don't expect him to improve but play at the same level he's been playing for a while (strike rate of 65+) until he really starts to decline in a few years just like Murali/Kumble in their last year. The one positive thing has been his batting. As long as he can keep that up I can't see the management being brave enough to drop him, but it does give the rest of the guys like Ashwin/Ojha a little more time to get better.

More than the age or injuries, its his mindset that has changed. he used to bowl far more attacking lines, toss the ball high up in the air and buy his wickets by beating the batsman in the flight, or inviting the drive and getting the edge or making the batsman poke at one around that off stump channel. But what he is doing now is "Containing" the batsman with some flatter deliveries on the pads. His primary job earlier was to bowl as a secondary spinner and look for wickets. Now that he is the senior spinner in the side, he is looking to contain the batsman more because he doesn't want others smacking sixes and fours off his bowling. He will toss the odd one up, but not on a consistent basis which shows that his mindset has gone negative and he is taking unnecessary pressure upon himself.

[Midfielder]

More than the age or injuries' date=' its his mindset that has changed. he used to bowl far more attacking lines, toss the ball high up in the air and buy his wickets by beating the batsman in the flight, or inviting the drive and getting the edge or making the batsman poke at one around that off stump channel. But what he is doing now is "Containing" the batsman with some flatter deliveries on the pads. His primary job earlier was to bowl as a secondary spinner and look for wickets. Now that he is the senior spinner in the side, he is looking to contain the batsman more because he doesn't want others smacking sixes and fours off his bowling. He will toss the odd one up, but not on a consistent basis which shows that his mindset has gone negative and he is taking unnecessary pressure upon himself.[/quote'] Any time you toss the ball and give it air you are counting on batsman to make a mistake. Slightly risky strategy as you are vulnerable to this tactic. Anytime you air the ball more it gives batsman more time and he may or maynot make mistake. Bhajji has decided to deviate from this strategy of so called purchasing wickets. He now tries to force mistake and at the same time contain them. Not very orthodox way of bowling but certainly good enough to be the best.

[saneindian]

Yeah I see it the same way. He was pretty special early in his career but I think injuries and age are catching up to him now. Most spin bowlers are in their prime at 30/31 but Bhajji has so much mileage on him. I don't expect him to improve but play at the same level he's been playing for a while (strike rate of 65+) until he really starts to decline in a few years just like Murali/Kumble in their last year. The one positive thing has been his batting. As long as he can keep that up I can't see the management being brave enough to drop him, but it does give the rest of the guys like Ashwin/Ojha a little more time to get better.

You sure? The likes of Murali, Warne, Kumble were at their peak in their early to mid 30s. A look at the number of wickets these three took after turning 31 tells you the entire story Murali- 55 tests, 363 wickets@22 Warne- 61 tests, 342 wickets@24 Kumble- 71 tests, 343 wickets@31 If Bhajji can regain his confidence and do even 70-80% of what these legends achieved in the last 4-5 years of their career, our no 1 rank will be safe.

[gaurav92]

Any time you toss the ball and give it air you are counting on batsman to make a mistake. Slightly risky strategy as you are vulnerable to this tactic. Anytime you air the ball more it gives batsman more time and he may or maynot make mistake. Bhajji has decided to deviate from this strategy of so called purchasing wickets. He now tries to force mistake and at the same time contain them. Not very orthodox way of bowling but certainly good enough to be the best.

No Midfielder, you are wrong here. The more you toss the ball up, the chances of getting the wicket increases as the batsman can be beaten in the flight, a batsman may drive the ball and get a healthy edge, the batsman may be deceived by the "Wrong-un" with that loop when he tosses the ball up. Also an old adage that "More you flight the ball, more it bounces" comes into play as the bounce can become a huge bonus when you toss the ball up. So in all these circumstances, you are not waiting for the batsman to make a mistake, but in fact forcing him to make a mistake. On the other hand, when you bowl on the pads, quicker flatter, the batsman has the right to pad it away, and you are asking the batsman to play a sweep stroke get a top edge to the man at 45 or play with hard hands and pop a catch to the short leg/leg slip fielder, that is waiting for the batsman to make a mistake. And when he bowls flatter, the ball will not get as much spin or bounce as a tossed up ball gets, so it becomes easily predictable. I am not saying that he should toss everything up, but he must bowl the odd flat one, but concentrate mainly on "purchasing" his wickets.

[Trichromatic]

I'm confused. Which thread should I use to say something about Bhajji?

[asterix]

It's only a 2nd day pitch. Not much for the spinners on the track..

[DeepFineLeg]

Bhajji's bowling is very predictable and he doesn't even look threatening.

[Rajiv]

Whats the record for spinners at lords?

[gaurav92]

Swann has got 22 wickets in 5 games at an average in early 20s :D

[DeepFineLeg]

Warne had 19 wickets at an avg of 19.5;

[Sid]

Bhajji will take wickets one day ,be patient guyz he is setting up the batsmen :giggle:

[Trichromatic]

Bhajji will take wickets one day ' date='be patient guyz he is setting up the batsmen :giggle:[/quote'] You mean he will set up the batsman on one day and pick wicket on other day. :cantstop: (91 overs have been bowled till now).

[gs]

Bhajji will take wickets one day ' date='be patient guyz he is setting up the batsmen :giggle:[/quote'] Only 3 days left in this match :giggle: