Crookbond Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 Easy with the :finger: mate.You have been doing it far too many times. I did that twice NOT "far too many times". I respect & understand your point but let us call a spade a spade. Btw, could you also take up the responsibility to ask others not to show the finger and use cuss words? Thanks!
Crookbond Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 Actually umpires in home series weren't even manipulated' date= their bias favoritism was/is notoriously well known. It's just unfortunate under Imran Khan's tutorship he didn't learn to manipulate the tv cameras, it would have been useful under today's TV coverage. Exactly! English umpires biased the English. Pakistanis for Pakistan. Australian for Australia and West Indians for West Indies. Why should Akram bare the brunt of the nepotism? Unfair!
Crookbond Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 Overall sure, on an average Akram probably was faster. Thanks for accepting. But as I said, at their respective bests, Akram could not have possibly be any faster than Srinath's best, which would somewhere between 149.5 and 155 (his two highest speeds in SA and WC99). First, there was no legal binding by the ICC on Akram not to bowl fast. Second, Apart from article which mentions eulogistic and flimsy numbers I don't see any other article calling Srinath faster than Akram. Even if he did bowl about 200 balls faster than Akram it doesn't matter. Zaheer Khan could in this logic be proved faster than Srinath and hence faster than Akram.
punjabi_khota Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 First, there was no legal binding by the ICC on Akram not to bowl fast. So you claim he was bowling 155+ at his best ? Second, Apart from article which mentions eulogistic and flimsy numbers I don't see any other article calling Srinath faster than Akram. Even if he did bowl about 200 balls faster than Akram it doesn't matter. Zaheer Khan could in this logic be proved faster than Srinath and hence faster than Akram. I don't see any other article comparing speeds over the years. Surely, if you are so confident, there must be something you can dig up ? Have you seen ANY other article on cricinfo which has openly botched statistics in name of eulogy? I haven't. I mean am I supposed to believe you on your word here ?
jairamesh Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 Exactly! English umpires biased the English. Pakistanis for Pakistan. Australian for Australia and West Indians for West Indies. Why should Akram bare the brunt of the nepotism? Unfair! huh you missed the point. Biasness only applied to Pakistan's home series. It was well known before touring pakistan you weren't playing against 11 but 13 onfield players.
jairamesh Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 So you claim he was bowling 155+ at his best ? I don't see any other article comparing speeds over the years. Surely, if you are so confident, there must be something you can dig up ? Have you seen ANY other article on cricinfo which has openly botched statistics in name of eulogy? I haven't. I mean am I supposed to believe you on your word here ? Apparently Imran Khan at his fastest couldn't break past 140km/hr, and yet he is listed fast.
Crookbond Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 So you claim he was bowling 155+ at his best ? I claim he was faster than Srinath at his best. I can't believe the speed gun. It wasn't official any way. I don't see any other article comparing speeds over the years. Probably you missed the Cricinfo profile links I posted. Scroll back and have a look. They list Akram as fast and Srinath as fast-medium. You think that's not the case? Try mailing Cricinfo and changing the speed of them on their profiles. Surely, if you are so confident, there must be something you can dig up ? Have you seen ANY other article on cricinfo which has openly botched statistics in name of eulogy? I haven't. I mean am I supposed to believe you on your word here ? I think this is the authentic link to the article : http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/111878.html I accept the fact here that Srinath must have been the fastest bowler in those two years. He may have bowled some balls as fast as Akram as I said earlier. However, Akram bowled at such speeds for a long long time. Close to 10 years if I remember. Unfortunately, those years didn't coincide with Srinath's peak years. Obviously, speed guns weren't present in the 80s and 90s but if you can't believe the same website you posted a link form what will you believe?
Crookbond Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 Apparently Imran Khan at his fastest couldn't break past 140km/hr' date= and yet he is listed fast. And where did you apparently get such apparent information?
Crookbond Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 huh you missed the point. Biasness only applied to Pakistan's home series. It was well known before touring pakistan you weren't playing against 11 but 13 onfield players. It was the same for West Indies, England and probably even India. West Indies umpiring woes have been well documented. Read more about Lloyd Barker and Douglas Sang Gue from West Indies, Bapu Joshi and MV Nagendra (India), David Constant (England).
jairamesh Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 And where did you apparently get such apparent information? bPDW7hj1yfs
jairamesh Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 It was the same for West Indies' date=' England and probably even India. West Indies umpiring woes have been well documented. Read more about Lloyd Barker and Douglas Sang Gue from West Indies, Bapu Joshi and MV Nagendra (India), David Constant (England).[/quote'] yes through incompetency, and not to the extent where Shakoor Rana and co regularly made the opposition threatening to walk out, with blatant bias decisions.
Crookbond Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 yes through incompetency' date=' and not to the extent where Shakoor Rana and co regularly made the opposition threatening to walk out, with blatant bias decisions.[/quote'] Shakoor Rana was abysmal, absolutely. But, the other nations weren't angels either.
jairamesh Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 How authentic are the speed guns? I will call-up Richie Benaud to track down the organizers who put up a painstakingly hi-tech rig and get back to you asap of it's authenticity. for ffs.:headshake: I thought you were one for numbers then the written word. Here you have got numbers and video proof. So let's hear your excuses now, I am all ears.
Crookbond Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 I will call-up Richie Benaud to track down the organizers who put up a painstakingly hi-tech rig and get back to you asap of it's authenticity. for ffs.:headshake: I thought you were one for numbers then the written word. Here you have got numbers and video proof. So let's hear your excuses now, I am all ears. What can Richie Benaud do if the speed gun wasn't perfect? We all know this competition took place in 1979. The last I heard Richie Benaud was a cricketer and commentator. I never knew he forayed into science and estimating speed. It's like saying the smallest particle in an element is the atom and not electrons, protons and neutrons. Moreover, if you observe correctly the speed isn't measured as it is today i.e. if you care to observe. I am all for numbers but in context. Btw, any reason why Cricinfo lists Imran Khan as fast : http://es.pn/r0nZU0 ? I am waiting to hear your esteemed explanation on this.
express bowling Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 It's important to post as read and more important to have your reading glasses on when you read. Praveen Kumar : Medium http://es.pn/nI0qI8 Abhimanyu Mithun : Medium http://es.pn/mUNy1s Firstly, Which experience? Secondly, Any idea why Mohammad Nissar and Amar Singh (I'm sure people tend to forget history and hence will link them) are listed as Fast-Medium? They don't follow any of your criteria. This has to be the WTF post of all time. Btw, not just Srinath/Ishant even Kumble is faster than Wasim Akram. Sorry I misread Praveen Kumar's classification but my point still stands. Abhimanyu Mithun is a fast medium bowler and the most pessimistic classification can be Medium Fast and not Medium. So, sites like Cricinfo's bowler classification are hardly always right. I was talking about my experience of watching pace bowlers being classified on TV from 1984, and in other media for a lesser period. They are often not right and are based on the reputation of a bowler.They are sometimes correct but not always so. Those who have written about having either played Mohm. Nissar or seen him have said that he was really fast. But an Indian gets classified as Fast-medium, no surprises there. Why is it so surprising that Srinath was generally faster than Wasim ? I have followed both their careers closely. Wasim started off as quite quick but after a brief period settled dowln to fast medium with a few fast spells during crucial times. He is one of the best bowlers I have ever seen and he could be quick when he needed to but was not always so during most part of his career. He was visibly slower than Waqar. Srinath, for the first half of his career was almost always fast, before his shoulder injury. He was never a great bowler like Wasim but a good one and he almost always bowled quick during that time. Visually Srnath was quicker than Wasim. They did not have speed guns used regularly during most part of their careers but occasionally reports came out. Srinath had touched 156kph during the 1996 tour of SAF. I have never read Wasim to have touched such speeds. Donald had written then that Srinath was attimes quicker than him but was hardly recognized to be so. Wasim was considered slower than Donald so ... When the speed guns were regularly used from the late 1990s, both these guys were in their early 30s. Srinath's quickest from that time on was 150kph during the 1999 world cup but Wasim's quickest I have seen was 144 kph. The general speed range was 134kph to 141kph for 'old Srinath' and 130kph to 137kph for 'old Akram'. I know you would argue that Akram was 33 yrs during that time but the fact is at that age Lee and a couple of others have bowled consistently at 145kph to 150 kph. p.s - If you are a Paki troll ( there are a few good Pakistani posters as well ) then I am sorry I don't possess either the " logic " to convince you or the insults to " beat " you. I hope you are not.
Yoda-esque Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 Sorry I misread Praveen Kumar's classification but my point still stands. Abhimanyu Mithun is a fast medium bowler and the most pessimistic classification can be Medium Fast and not Medium. So' date= sites like Cricinfo's bowler classification are hardly always right. I was talking about my experience of watching pace bowlers being classified on TV from 1984, and in other media for a lesser period. They are often not right and are based on the reputation of a bowler.They are sometimes correct but not always so. Those who have written about having either played Mohm. Nissar or seen him have said that he was really fast. But an Indian gets classified as Fast-medium, no surprises there. Why is it so surprizing that Srinath was generally faster than Wasim ? I have followed both their careers closely. Wasim started off as quite quick but after a brief period settled dowln to fast medium with a few fast spells during crucial times. He is one of the best bowlers I have ever seen and he could be quick when he needed to but was not always so during most part of his career. He was visibly slower than Waqar. Srinath, for the first half of his career was almost always fast, before his shoulder injury. He was never a great bowler like Wasim but a good one and he almost always bowled quick during that time. Visually Srnath was quicker than Wasim. They did not have speed guns used regularly during most part of their careers but occasionally reports came out. Srinath had touched 156kph during the 1996 tour of SAF. I have never read Wasim to have touched such speeds. Donald had written then that Srinath was attimes quicker than him but was hardly recognized to be so. Wasim was considered slower than Donald so ... When the speed guns were regularly used from the late 1990s, both these guys were in their early 30s. Srinath's quickest from that time on was 150kph during the 1999 world cup but Wasim's quickest I have seen was 144 kph. The general speed range was 134kph to 141kph for 'old Srinath' and 130kph to 137kph for 'old Akram'. I know you would argue that Akram was 33 yrs during that time but the fact is at that age Lee and a couple of others have bowled consistently at 145kph to 150 kph. p.s - If you are a Paki troll ( there are a few good Pakistani posters as well ) then I am sorry I don't possess either the " logic " to convince you or the insults to " beat " you. I hope you are not. You beat me to it.:--D
express bowling Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 So' date=' you compare Srinath at his best versus Akram at his worst? Both at their best, Akram was way faster! Even Zaheer Khan clocked closed to 150 kph in this first series Champions Trophy 2000. Shane Watson could also clock higher 140s.[/quote'] Srinath's fastest was not in 1999. At that time Srinath , 30 yrs old, was distinctly slower than his peak in 1996. He had a bad shoulder injury in 1997 and never really regained his old pace. 1999 was one of Srinath's slower years. We are comparing a slower Srinath with a slower Akram.
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