achilles Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 It's a smear on the good name of Venkatesh Prasad that India haven't produced any top-class fast men recently. Amrith Rajasekaran I was watching this documentary called Fire in Babylon, about the West Indies cricket team of the '70s and '80s. Apart from the focus on cricket, it also looked at the influence of the cricket team on West Indian culture. The thing that struck me most, though, was the fast bowling. I watched footage of Lillee and Thomson destroying West Indies, and then of Marshall, Holding, Garner, Croft and Roberts obliterating everyone. I then switched on Ten Cricket, and the West Indies innings had just begun. Praveen Kumar opened the bowling for India. "Right-arm fast-medium", said the graphic. Okay. If you say so. An avid India fan, I grew up in the late '90s and early 2000s on a staple diet of bone-crunching, short-pitched, toe-breaking yorker bowling by speed demons like Venkatesh Prasad, Dodda Ganesh and, of course, Anil Kumble. And now there is Praveen Kumar. And Munaf Patel. Sigh. Where have all the fast bowlers gone? It's not just a question that plagues Indian cricket but a problem for the world game. Look at the bowling descriptions of the bowlers of yesteryear and compare them to those of bowlers today. Allow me to illustrate. Michael Holding: Right-arm whispering-death. Dennis Lillee: Right-arm the-batsman-had-better-watch-out-for-his-head Jeff Thomson: Right-arm Holy-cow-that's-fast! Joel Garner: Right-arm Empire-State-Building-throwing-the-ball-at-you And, of course, Venkatesh Prasad: Right-arm extremely fast, occasionally very fast. And you compare them to the "quick" bowlers of this era: Mohammad Amir: Left-arm banned Shane Bond: Right-arm policeman; retired Lasith Malinga: Right arm somewhere below that mop of hair. Sajid Mahmood: Right-arm, left-arm, does it even matter? And, of course, Shaun Tait: Right-arm injured. Where, then, have all the fast bowlers gone? There are the occasional genuine quicks like Brett Lee and Dale Steyn, but let's face it, one has plugs for hair and the other the name of a chipmunk. They're not really going to be taken seriously. I am saddened at India's plight. Take the case of Munaf Patel. He burst onto the scene as a tearaway fast bowler. Under the tutelage of Venky, I half expected him to break the 100mph barrier. You'd have expected the kid would pick up some pace just by being around the great man. Alas, Munaf now bowls medium-paced spin that generally goes straight on. Perhaps Twenty20 is to be blamed. What is this slow bouncer anyway? It's slow. So what is a fast bowler doing bowling it? If it's slow and a bouncer, it's not going to hurt anyone. What is the point? To borrow from Ebenezer Scrooge, "Bah, humbug!" When I was a kid, we played backyard cricket. Professional backyard cricket, mind you. I remember that the batsman took guard by showing one or two fingers, asking for leg- or middle-stump guard. The stump was, of course, a chair. The bowlers had to "tell their guard" too, lest they be called for a no-ball. As an opening batsman, I'd hear the bowler scream to the ump from the top of his run-up: "Right-arm face." I always thought that the kid could just not pronounce "pace" but it was only later that I truly realised the impact the stalwarts of yesteryear had made on these kids. The balls often whizzed past my face. (Of course, I played them expertly, but that's for another day.) I happened to chance upon a game of cricket in a ground next to my house, the other day. There was this kid who wore sweatbands on both wrists and a headband on his forehead. His collar was up and the top two buttons of his shirt were undone. "Ah, Lillee," I thought to myself. "Right-arm fast-medium," he said to the umpire. Damn you, Praveen Kumar! I was still hopeful. He marked his run-up, started steaming in with an athlete's rhythm and a menacing growl on his face. Perhaps I would see fire in Babylon after all. I waited with bated breath. He ran in, a full head of steam. He bowled a slower ball. Right-arm fast-medium. Source- Cricinfo Vyang :hatsoff:
rkt.india Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Rubbish Article...What is the obsession with Prasad in the article? He did see PK but did not see Ishant...did not even see Munna who bowled quick bouncers and did not see Fidel Edwards bowling 90 mph. I think the writer has never come up with the term like swing bowling and talking like all were bowling 150KPH in 1970s-80s.
NareshK Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Srinath was fast and so are Sreesanth and Ishant. :dontknow: Munaf was pretty quick the other day too. Bowling around 85+ mph consistently. And of course, there are plenty of genuine quicks in Aussie, SA and England lineup. There werent too many 100 mph bowlers during 70s or 80s either. There were many great bowlers and they looked even more deadly because they could bowl as many bouncers they liked and the pitches were tough for batting and batsmen didnt have proper protection but I dont think all of them were touching 100 mph.
Trichromatic Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Srinath was fast and so are Sreesanth and Ishant. :dontknow: Munaf was pretty quick the other day too. Bowling around 85+ mph consistently. And of course, there are plenty of genuine quicks in Aussie, SA and England lineup. Munaf, Ishant and Sreeshant all bowl below 85 on an average. Srinath and Zaheer used to bowl faster in earlier days. They are not fast bowlers. In SA, only Dale Steyn and Morkel are classified as fast bowlers and they bowl at 90mph+ consistently. All English bowlers bowl with avg speed around 85mph. Fast medium bowlers, but not the fast bowlers. Sri Lanka - All fast medium bowlers bowling around 80mph. WI - Only Fidel Edwards is considered to be a fast bowler. Pakistan - All fast medium. New Zealand - Same story Australia - Mitchell Johnson. We have only 4 fast bowlers in the world and only Dale Steyn is a top class bowler among them! Did I miss someone?
1983-2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 another obsessed article for 90mph bowlers and never forgets to take a dig at Munaf's pace:facepalm
rkt.india Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Munaf, Ishant and Sreeshant all bowl below 85 on an average. Srinath and Zaheer used to bowl faster in earlier days. They are not fast bowlers. In SA, only Dale Steyn and Morkel are classified as fast bowlers and they bowl at 90mph+ consistently. All English bowlers bowl with avg speed around 85mph. Fast medium bowlers, but not the fast bowlers. Sri Lanka - All fast medium bowlers bowling around 80mph. WI - Only Fidel Edwards is considered to be a fast bowler. Pakistan - All fast medium. New Zealand - Same story Australia - Mitchell Johnson. We have only 4 fast bowlers in the world and only Dale Steyn is a top class bowler among them! Did I miss someone? You forgot Kemar Roach, Peter Siddle, Jerome Taylor, Malinga. GuL bowled over 150K in WC. Wahab Riyaaz bowled high 140s in WC and on NZ tour. Do you think..all bowlers in 70s were 90 mph...not not many. Bowlers never bowled fast in whole of their career. They were fast just for a a period of time. Like the 2 decades of 70s and 80s, we also have seen some of the fastest bowler ever in 90s and 2000s. So, this articles does not have much to talk about. Impact of fast bowlers is reduced because of flat pitches and protective gears which have huge effects on mind set of batsmen.
saneindian Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Good write up on page 2. But looks like many have fallen for it!
achilles Posted July 9, 2011 Author Posted July 9, 2011 Good write up on page 2. But looks like many have fallen for it! Yes. Look at how rkt is all riled up :woot:
achilles Posted July 9, 2011 Author Posted July 9, 2011 Munaf' date=' Ishant and Sreeshant all bowl below 85 on an average. Srinath and Zaheer used to bowl faster in earlier days. They are not fast bowlers.[/quote'] Sreesanth is the only genuine fast bowler India has produced after Srinath. Ishant is now a part of the two-man team.
express bowling Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Munaf, Ishant and Sreeshant all bowl below 85 on an average. Srinath and Zaheer used to bowl faster in earlier days. They are not fast bowlers. In SA, only Dale Steyn and Morkel are classified as fast bowlers and they bowl at 90mph+ consistently. All English bowlers bowl with avg speed around 85mph. Fast medium bowlers, but not the fast bowlers. Sri Lanka - All fast medium bowlers bowling around 80mph. WI - Only Fidel Edwards is considered to be a fast bowler. Pakistan - All fast medium. New Zealand - Same story Australia - Mitchell Johnson. We have only 4 fast bowlers in the world and only Dale Steyn is a top class bowler among them! Did I miss someone? A true fast bowler is someone who the batsman is afraid to face because he might get injured or hit on the body. That has always been the definition of fast bowling before the speed guns were used regularly from the 1999 world cup. Now we have "speed gun fast bowllers" like Sreesanth and Mohammad Sami, who clock 140k + but nobody gets threatened by them physically. This phenomenon happens because -- the speed gun shows the speed of release of the ball and not the speed at which it reaches the batsman. That speed is also measured but not generally shown on the TV. Many bowlers have the ability to generate a lot of pace off the pitch, more than some others, so that the speed at which it reaches the batsman is more than expected from a certain release speed. -- The ability to generate steep bounce was a quality that fast bowlers needed to posess unless they could consistently bowl toe crushers. -- Nowadays we put a lot of importance on the speed gun reading but they are not standardized and vary from series to series. Tell me something ... Ishant, in this series, is bowling between 84mph to 87 mph generally with the quickest around 90 mph. But is he not looking really quick and hostlle ? Is he not beating and hitting the batsmaen consistently by pace and bounce ? In a nutshell there are lots of fast bowlers now although they are not clocking 145k+ constantly in every series -- because they have pace off the pitch, bounce and the speed gun is not standardized. If the speed gun were used regularly in the 70s and 80s we would have seen the same phenomenon. p.s - Dale Steyn does not average over 90mph ( as you think ) but only around 86mph or so in SA but is still a genuine fast bowler.
Precambrian Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 lol, i'd take a p kumar over a shaun tait anyday. Also a big lol at calling Garner a speed demon. He was just medium pace
punjabi_khota Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Munaf, Ishant and Sreeshant all bowl below 85 on an average. Srinath and Zaheer used to bowl faster in earlier days. They are not fast bowlers. In SA, only Dale Steyn and Morkel are classified as fast bowlers and they bowl at 90mph+ consistently. Retard alert. Dale Steyn DOES NOT BOWL OVER 90 MPH REGULARLY. Did you ****ing see the Ind-SA series in SA ?
rkt.india Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Sreesanth is the only genuine fast bowler India has produced after Srinath. Ishant is now a part of the two-man team. Sreeshanth...who did not bowl even 6 bowls over 140 on SA tour...I would say its Ishant..even in WI he has bowled lot of balls over 140
Crookbond Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 lol, i'd take a p kumar over a shaun tait anyday. Also a big lol at calling Garner a speed demon. He was just medium pace I am not sure which sport you watch. Joel Garner : Fast A few Cricinfo definitions Sreesanth : Fast Medium Srinath : Fast Medium Zaheer : Fast Medium Ishant :Fast Medium Peter Siddle : Fast Medium Mitchell Johnson : Fast Brett Lee : Fast Wasim Akram : Fast Shane Bond : Fast Shaun Tait : Fast Dale Steyn : Fast Morne Morkel : Fast Andrew Flintoff : Fast You can now make an educated guess on other bowlers.
rkt.india Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 A true fast bowler is someone who the batsman is afraid to face because he might get injured or hit on the body. That has always been the definition of fast bowling before the speed guns were used regularly from the 1999 world cup. Now we have "speed gun fast bowllers" like Sreesanth and Mohammad Sami, who clock 140k + but nobody gets threatened by them physically. This phenomenon happens because -- the speed gun shows the speed of release of the ball and not the speed at which it reaches the batsman. That speed is also measured but not generally shown on the TV. Many bowlers have the ability to generate a lot of pace off the pitch, more than some others, so that the speed at which it reaches the batsman is more than expected from a certain release speed. -- The ability to generate steep bounce was a quality that fast bowlers needed to posess unless they could consistently bowl toe crushers. -- Nowadays we put a lot of importance on the speed gun reading but they are not standardized and vary from series to series. Tell me something ... Ishant, in this series, is bowling between 84mph to 87 mph generally with the quickest around 90 mph. But is he not looking really quick and hostlle ? Is he not beating and hitting the batsmaen consistently by pace and bounce ? In a nutshell there are lots of fast bowlers now although they are not clocking 145k+ constantly in every series -- because they have pace off the pitch, bounce and the speed gun is not standardized. If the speed gun were used regularly in the 70s and 80s we would have seen the same phenomenon. p.s - Dale Steyn does not average over 90mph ( as you think ) but only around 86mph or so in SA but is still a genuine fast bowler. yaar batsmen are not afraid of pace now days because of so many protective gears. look at how Munaf hit Samuels on teh badge in this test...without helmet, he would have been in the hell right now. look at how Ishant hit samuels and others. Fidel hit indian batters. even best of the batsmen like SRT, ponting, dravid, laxman, kallis and others are hit on helmets. you just do not see blood on the pitch because of these protections and only 2 bouncers rule per over.
express bowling Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 yaar batsmen are not afraid of pace now days because of so many protective gears. look at how Munaf hit Samuels on teh badge in this test...without helmet, he would have been in the hell right now. look at how Ishant hit samuels and others. Fidel hit indian batters. even best of the batsmen like SRT, ponting, dravid, laxman, kallis and others are hit on helmets. you just do not see blood on the pitch because of these protections and only 2 bouncers rule per over. People might not fall down and go to the hospital frequently these days but they still have a lot of unprotected areas. Even protected areas get injured and nobody likes to be hit by a fast, hard deuce ball. If you ask the batsmen they will still think that the bowlers who are hitting them and hurrying them are fast, they don't have access to the speed gun while playing yaar. :winky:
express bowling Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 I am not sure which sport you watch. Joel Garner : Fast A few Cricinfo definitions Sreesanth : Fast Medium Srinath : Fast Medium Zaheer : Fast Medium Ishant :Fast Medium Peter Siddle : Fast Medium Mitchell Johnson : Fast Brett Lee : Fast Wasim Akram : Fast Shane Bond : Fast Shaun Tait : Fast Dale Steyn : Fast Morne Morkel : Fast Andrew Flintoff : Fast You can now make an educated guess on other bowlers. Cricinfo classifies Abhimanyu Mithun as Medium and Praveen Kumar as medium fast --- faster than Mithun -- so infer whether they are correct all the time. In my experience statisticians classify bowlers as faster ones if they are more successful and / or come from a country with fast bowling history or reputation. For Indian bowler to be classified as Fast, they have to be much quicker than an Australian or SAF bowler. Ishant and Srinath are/ were both faster than Wasim.
Crookbond Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 Cricinfo classifies Abhimanyu Mithun as Medium and Praveen Kumar as medium fast --- faster than Mithun -- so infer whether they are correct all the time. . It's important to post as read and more important to have your reading glasses on when you read. Praveen Kumar : Medium http://es.pn/nI0qI8 Abhimanyu Mithun : Medium http://es.pn/mUNy1s In my experience statisticians classify bowlers as faster ones if they are more successful and / or come from a country with fast bowling history or reputation. Firstly, Which experience? Secondly, Any idea why Mohammad Nissar and Amar Singh (I'm sure people tend to forget history and hence will link them) are listed as Fast-Medium? They don't follow any of your criteria. For Indian bowler to be classified as Fast, they have to be much quicker than an Australian or SAF bowler. Ishant and Srinath are/ were both faster than Wasim. This has to be the WTF post of all time. Btw, not just Srinath/Ishant even Kumble is faster than Wasim Akram.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now