Dravid->My last England series, I want win.

[Predator_05]

Predator, you have been harping on and on about this. Did you even watch the series. Dravid got 2(or was it 3) terrible umpiring decisions. Besides this series in which he was at the wrong side of umpiring decisions you would be hard pressed to find anything to suggest that his batting is being affected by captaincy. I still stand by my earlier judgement that he is the right man to lead India.

Terrible umpiring ? Yeah, he got shafted twice in the 2nd test, but that was it. He got out on his own in the other 4 innings he played. Besides, Dravid didn't look like his usual solid self in South Africa. Most of his dismissals were soft, to say the least. Remember how he got out in the last test ? He had his eye in and threw away both starts; first fishing outside off to Pollock and then playing straight back to their spinner in the 2nd. Tame dismissals in the 1st test as well. I am not saying that his batting is being affected by captaincy, but if we start seeing a drop in form can India afford to continue with him ? Now that Sehwag is gone, Dravid is the only guy who can be counted on to score and with him out of form the Indian batting lineup will never be able put up enough runs to win tests. Especially against good teams like England and Australia.

[Predator_05]

Steve Waugh followed on in the Kolkata test and all of us know what happened after that. Saurav Ganguly won the toss and chose to field in the 2003 world cup final and all of us know what happened after that. In the second test of the ashes 2005, Ponting won the toss and put england in and we all know what happend that ? So , are these guys shitty captains too ?

What a ridiculous analogy. If Dravid had won World Cups like Ponting and Waugh did (instead of being the first Indian captain in 17 years to fail at leading his team past the first round) or set records for most concecutive test wins, than i wouldn't care about those mistakes.

[dial_100]

Even I would agree with Shwetabh....We do not have better choice, if i could. Yuv, Dhoni are no good. At least not to lead the team. SG wont get it back and SRT doesnt want it. Lurks, so even tho dravid deosnt have the skills that you are stating, it doesn't make him a bad choice, given the circumstances. Where is the choice? VVS? who knows how long he will last? Even if he does, he has not captained local teams for long time or something. So Dravid is the man and honestly, he isn;t doing bad job. His bad luck is that Yuvi, SRT are not in good touch these days. Once they get more consistent, results will start to show up. Why we forget that we need in form players to win the matches. SRT, Sehwag and Yuv in pathetic forms, what do you expect, we had wont the cup or what??? In 2003, it was Sehwag, SRT in very prime form. Not cuz of some captaincy or anything. Nehra, Zaheer bowled superbly in so many matches. In those days we used to play 1 batsman less all the time and still win many matches. Now we are playing 2-3 players short (all of them out of form). I hope Yuv, Dhoni and SRT pick up their forms. Gangs continue his current ave and Dravid too.. We will surely win a test and manage a draw in at least one. cheers...

[coffee_rules]

I have heard Ganguly getting credit for the form of his seniors, Dravid especially.

[Lurker]

Lurks, so even tho dravid deosnt have the skills that you are stating, it doesn't make him a bad choice, given the circumstances.

Unfortunately what you are saying is true Dial. This is a classic case of Selection by Elimination. There is no other player who can be certain of his position in the side in both forms of the game(other than Dravid) and certainly no one else that can be a less controversial skipper. xx

[Ram]

What a ridiculous analogy. If Dravid had won World Cups like Ponting and Waugh did (instead of being the first Indian captain in 17 years to fail at leading his team past the first round) or set records for most concecutive test wins, than i wouldn't care about those mistakes.

I quoted thos examples to show that every captain makes mistakes with the toss, because you had told how you had lost respct for Dravid from the time he had chosen the wrong option in the carribean.

[King]

I have always said captain and coach is only as good as the team. Even if you get the best motivational speaker the team won't do miracles unless the players themselves figure out what's ailing them. Although a team game cricket can be a very solitary sport at times. The coach, captain and the technical staff can only compliment a player's ability but they cannot inject that ability in them. I think a lot of current Indian batters lose it mentally more than due to ability. I think they have faced defeats so often it is hard for them not to pull themselves down in the name of pressure. Only guys like Rahul Dravid or Laxman that have recently done very well in the face of adversity will have some faith in their ability left. I hope Karthik shows some grit and excel in England. It is time Jaffer, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Yuvraj, Dhoni and the rest stand up and be counted in test cricket. I know they are very capable but they seem to really lose it when there is pressure on them.

[Predator_05]

I quoted thos examples to show that every captain makes mistakes with the toss' date=' because you had told how you had lost respct for Dravid from the time he had chosen the wrong option in the carribean.[/quote'] Not in the first test in WI, but vs England in the decisive 3rd match. That is where it started, but it's not the ONLY reason why i have lost all faith (NOT respect) in him as a captain. I just used that as an example to cite his poor captaincy skills - ie; making retarded toss decisions which have become his speciality. Other captains screwed up once, but never repeated their mistake again. The first round elimination from the WC is the main reason why i think he isn't good enough as a captain

[King]

Dravid has b****ered couple of times in test cricket. The second test match where he won the toss and decided to bat against Pakistan on a green top in 2004 and the decision to bowl first against England last year @ Bombay stands out. I won't blame him for World cup debacle though. I blamed the over hyped batters that couldn't even put a decent score on board against Bangladesh and failed to chase a moderate score against Sri Lanka.

[Ram]

The first round elimination from the WC is the main reason why i think he isn't good enough as a captain

If is totally unreasonable to attribute Dravid's captaincy skill ( or the lack of it) to India's performance in the world cup ! As Ravi said , What can a captain do if the batting line-up can muster only 190-odd against bangladesh , or fail to chase a reasonable total agaisnt Sri Lanka ? It was a case of total mis-firing of the batting order in the first case and the opponent being too good for us on that day in the second case. Where does Dravid's captaincy come here ? Did he set bad fields against Tamim Iqbal ? Did he pick the wrong team for Sri Lanka ?. EVERYBODY who criticised India after the cup came up with a variety of reasons , yet i havent heard one expert or former cricket player calling Dravid's captaincy bad. Honestly , it looks as though you are searching for reasons to show Dravid as a bad captain, and the world cup put itself forwards as a very convenient excuse..