Jadeja is actually a good odi player.

[diga]

Are you aware that there are other changes (in fielding restrictions) apart from the bouncer rules?

I think Bharat is talking about rules affecting a top order ODI batsmen primarily playing the first 15 overs.., But I agree, that we also need people who can utilize the "max 4 fielders in the boundary ropes " rule for the rest of the innings. If only Sehwag improves his fitness, I would like the selectors trial him for the #4 or #5 spot in champions trophy

[bharat297]

I think Bharat is talking about rules affecting a top order ODI batsmen primarily playing the first 15 overs.., But I agree, that we also need people who can utilize the "max 4 fielders in the boundary ropes " rule for the rest of the innings. If only Sehwag improves his fitness, I would like the selectors trial him for the #4 or #5 spot in champions trophy

Yep thats what I meant. The thing with capitalising on the "max 4 fielders" rule is you need players who are capable of not only hitting big shots but if they can't they can still work the ball around and run hard between wickets. If we score 120 runs in the last 15 overs then that's a pretty decent achievement. 2 solid batsmen working around 1s and 2s, hitting the occassional boundary is more often than not more effective than an out and out slogger. Someone in the Michael Hussey mould is needed.

[Crookbond]

I think Bharat is talking about rules affecting a top order ODI batsmen primarily playing the first 15 overs.., But I agree, that we also need people who can utilize the "max 4 fielders in the boundary ropes " rule for the rest of the innings. If only Sehwag improves his fitness, I would like the selectors trial him for the #4 or #5 spot in champions trophy

The rule makes part-time spin bowlers ineffective. Hence, we need to play an all-rounder. Jadeja in SC and Irfan outside SC is the best we have.

[bharat297]

The rule makes part-time spin bowlers ineffective. Hence' date=' we need to play an all-rounder. Jadeja in SC and Irfan outside SC is the best we have.[/quote'] I don't know about that. Because there are now 5 fielders in the inner circle, it means you have one more man saving the single. Part-time spinners that speed through their overs and dart the ball in, in limited overs cricket, are quite handy because its hard to get under a skidding ball darting into your pads ... so batsmen typically just look to work the ball around for singles. So if you have a canny part-timer capable of bowling to his field, he could end up being more effective than before.

[Vivek.S.123]

India should go back with the 7 batsmen trick and drop Jadeja. Rayudu should play at 7 while Raina moves to 5. Pujara should replace Gambhir

[Old guy]

I don't know about that. Because there are now 5 fielders in the inner circle' date=' it means you have one more man saving the single. Part-time spinners that speed through their overs and dart the ball in, in limited overs cricket, are quite handy because its hard to get under a skidding ball darting into your pads ... so batsmen typically just look to work the ball around for singles. So if you have a canny part-timer capable of bowling to his field, he could end up being more effective than before.[/quote'] isnt it easier to smack part timer out of ground compared to front line bowlers? and they are part timers for a reason..they dont have enough skill to be efective earlier on captains hide them by bowling in middle overs and having men back they dont mind singles but boundaries hurt and no it is actually essential now to play 5 proper bowlers cos u dont have protection .. if what you say is true we will be seeing part timers bowling in power plays but we all know its not true.. im sure u werent aware of that rule but now u know and it makes perfect sense to play 5 bowlers even if one of 5 has a bad day we can cover him its good strategy imo

[bharat297]

isnt it easier to smack part timer out of ground compared to front line bowlers? and they are part timers for a reason..they dont have enough skill to be efective earlier on captains hide them by bowling in middle overs and having men back they dont mind singles but boundaries hurt and no it is actually essential now to play 5 proper bowlers cos u dont have protection .. if what you say is true we will be seeing part timers bowling in power plays but we all know its not true.. im sure u werent aware of that rule but now u know and it makes perfect sense to play 5 bowlers even if one of 5 has a bad day we can cover him its good strategy imo

First of all, I didn't say to bowl them in the power-plays. I was talking about the middle-overs. Secondly, I wasn't talking about all part-timers ... I was talking about a good one. Someone like Clarke darting it into a batsman's pads with fielders 4 men out and 5 men in can be quite handy. They still have protection and they have that extra fielder saving one so batsmen will find it harder to just work the bowler around for ones and twos and the onus will be on the batsman to play bigger shots to score. Thirdly, the reason they are part-timers is because they typically don't have the wicket-taking skill of front-line bowlers and are generally used in a more defensive/run-saving manner which is what I was referring to. It was in response to a statement that said part-time spinners will be ineffective and I was merely stating that this is no necessarily the case all the time. It depends on the spinner and the field.

[bharat297]

Also I never said not to play 5 bowlers. I was just saying that these new rules don't necessarily imply that part-timers will be ineffective from now on.

[Old guy]

First of all, I didn't say to bowl them in the power-plays. I was talking about the middle-overs. Secondly, I wasn't talking about all part-timers ... I was talking about a good one. Someone like Clarke darting it into a batsman's pads with fielders 4 men out and 5 men in can be quite handy. They still have protection and they have that extra fielder saving one so batsmen will find it harder to just work the bowler around for ones and twos and the onus will be on the batsman to play bigger shots to score. Thirdly, the reason they are part-timers is because they typically don't have the wicket-taking skill of front-line bowlers and are generally used in a more defensive/run-saving manner which is what I was referring to. It was in response to a statement that said part-time spinners will be ineffective and I was merely stating that this is no necessarily the case all the time. It depends on the spinner and the field.

my point is part timers cant replace regular bowlers now u cant expect any part timer to fill in 10 overs,,those days are gone yes they are not useless far from it..but u do need 5 bowlers now

[bharat297]

my point is part timers cant replace regular bowlers now u cant expect any part timer to fill in 10 overs,,those days are gone yes they are not useless far from it..but u do need 5 bowlers now

When did I say part-timers can replace regular bowlers?

[Old guy]

When did I say part-timers can replace regular bowlers?

when u play 4 bowlers in 50 over game..that means part timers are doing job of 1 bowler .. i dont think it will be possible now one man sounds less but it makes huge difference ..even mentally imo

[BeautifulGame]

My preferable option would be to have both Pathan and Jadeja for champions trophy at 7 and 8 and interchange them in bat order based on situations. This will give us excellent batting depth and arguably good balance in bowling. For this to happen we need either Jadeja to be a better attacking spinner than Ashwin which I can't see happening or we need a good attacking seam attack which would mean we can do with a containing spinner which Jadeja is capable IMO . Whether a bowling attack of Pathan BK Yadav and Aaron/ Shammi is attacking enough in English conditions to accomodate Jadeja I'm not sure. Personally I would try 4 seam + Jadeja initially in warmup games if we have any and see how it goes. Obviously all this depends on how Jadeja performs on the remaining mat against Eng and Australia whether its just a false dawn or he really has improved as a cricketer

[bharat297]

when u play 4 bowlers in 50 over game..that means part timers are doing job of 1 bowler .. i dont think it will be possible now one man sounds less but it makes huge difference ..even mentally imo

When did I say we should only play 4 bowlers in a 50 over game?

[Old guy]

another thing - india should quit wasting their time on these bits and pieces cricketers. the one day team is at its best when it has 7 batsmen. india won't win games with 'balance', they win games by out-batting the other team. this means guys like jadeja should piss off

so if u play 7 batsman.. that means u play 4 bowlers...sorry if u feel like im rude or naything no intention..honestly :P maybe i misunderstood ? :dontknow:

[CG]

Jadeja or no jadeja Indian team are going to be hammered in champions trophy like they were last time in southafrica.Jadeja can play at home if he is consistent with the bat which i doubt.

[Vivek.S.123]

My ODI team: 1. Ajinkya Rahane 2. Cheteshwar Pujara 3. Virat Kohli 4. Yuvraj Singh 5. Suresh Raina 6. MS Dhoni (CAPTAIN & WK) 7. Ambati Rayudu 8. Ravichandran Ashwin 9. Bhuvneshwar Kumar 10. Ashok Dinda 11. Shami Ahmed

[Crookbond]

I don't know about that. Because there are now 5 fielders in the inner circle' date= it means you have one more man saving the single. Part-time spinners that speed through their overs and dart the ball in, in limited overs cricket, are quite handy because its hard to get under a skidding ball darting into your pads ... so batsmen typically just look to work the ball around for singles. So if you have a canny part-timer capable of bowling to his field, he could end up being more effective than before.

I think you need to concede this point here - everyone in the cricketing fraternity thinks that the new rules are a disadvantage to spinners. Even in the sub continent the ball hardly spins and one can hit through the line quite easily. Just in case, the darting balls can also be hit for boundaries along the ground - you don't need to get "under the ball" to hit sixes.

[bharat297]

so if u play 7 batsman.. that means u play 4 bowlers...sorry if u feel like im rude or naything no intention..honestly :P maybe i misunderstood ? :dontknow:

Who did you just quote? That wasn't me who said that ... lol

[Old guy]

ok my bad :P im on cell phone so this happens a lot :P there ya go now i know wht misunderstanding is :P

[bharat297]

I think you need to concede this point here - everyone in the cricketing fraternity thinks that the new rules are a disadvantage to spinners. Even in the sub continent the ball hardly spins and one can hit through the line quite easily. Just in case' date=' the darting balls can also be hit for boundaries along the ground - you don't need to get "under the ball" to hit sixes.[/quote'] Oh look I definitely agree that it makes it harder for spinners but I don't think it means that part-time spinners are ineffective. Yes you can still hit boundaries to bowlers that dart it in but you have to hit through the field. With another man in saving one, it makes it a little bit harder to hit through the field. Why it's harder for spinners now is if they get their length slightly wrong and batsmen can get under it and hit over the infield, then there are more gaps in the outfield now. I was just saying that a smart spinner who can dart it in to the batsmen's pads from a lower trajectory, may find the extra fielder in the inner circle handy.