Lurker Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 To be fair' date=' this is equivalent to winning the Asia cup for cricket. Who cares who wins it ?[/quote'] Not quite. Hockey has limited International Games and championships, quite unlike cricket where every other day something is going on. In cricket when International Games were limited Asia Cup was still quite popular. Most cricket fans of yesteryears would remember India winning Rothmans Cup, for example, after skittlling Pakistan for 80 odds when chasing 125 or so in Sharjah. You ask them aout the last Asia Cup and they would probably wont remember anything. Its a case of overfeed. Not something that hockey suffers from.
gaurav92 Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 What are your thoughts on making cricket an amateur game? The throwback to 30s era? And how many modern day cricket players you think will entertain that? Exactly. We love seeing Cricketers earning millions and on the other hand, our hockey players don't get value for their game. Is that fair ?
akshayxyz Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 What are your thoughts on making cricket an amateur game? The throwback to 30s era? And how many modern day cricket players you think will entertain that? [ My stand is for the debate's sake - I can understand both sides of this] First of all - If some one can prove that (through RTI or whatever) - that Hockey India has much more money at their disposal than they claim, and 25K is not proportionate to the funds. Then perhaps players' protest is a bit justified. Even then, it would be a different matter. Also, one will have to prove that this is the best use of HI's money. I know my words are harsh. But I will stick by this - players should play for the passion of the game. Pick any top sportsperson across any sports - I doubt whether any one will disagree to this. Now the other part - economics - this is something not in the hands of the players. All of them - at the start of their career - had the choice to pick up the particular sport. And, it is a known fact for decades, that Hockey will not get you as much money, as one can get in cricket. Btw, would you disagree that - a prize is a prize, it should be a matter of pride - above anything else. As for your point about taking cricket back to 30s. You do not need to go back as far. There was hardly any money in cricket until 90s. In the sense - people could not think of cricket as a profession. They still had to be working for AirIndia, Railways and such. In fact, it is only after IPL etc. we can talk about taking cricket as a profession (primary means of livelihood). Sports as a means of livelihood is a matter of socioeconomic status of a state. And in India, so far, we have seen that only in cricket. Hockey's and other sports' time will come. But before that if the game dies, we can't do much about it. Until then, it is only passion for the sports - playing/winning for pride that can keep the sport alive.
Lurker Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 As for your point about taking cricket back to 30s. You do not need to go back as far. There was hardly any money in cricket until 90s. In the sense - people could not think of cricket as a profession. They still had to be working for AirIndia, Railways and such. In fact, it is only after IPL etc. we can talk about taking cricket as a profession (primary means of livelihood). Lets start with this first. Do you know what was the first offer the BCCI made to the Indian cricket team after they had won the 1983 WC? And do you know what Sunny Gavaskar had told the Manager (Man Singh)- Sir inaam de rahe hain ke tip de rahe hain which prompted him to reach out to BCCI and come back with a rather substantial offer. By that token Sunny should have been spanked then, as also other cricketers of thinking this. Obviously Asia Cup hockey is not the same as World cup cricket win, but to see today's hockey players offered what would be a fraction of what was offered 30 years back is rather shameful. By the by what are you thoughts on prize purse in Tennis, football etc. You want them all to be taken off as well :winky:
akshayxyz Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 Lets start with this first. Do you know what was the first offer the BCCI made to the Indian cricket team after they had won the 1983 WC? And do you know what Sunny Gavaskar had told the Manager (Man Singh)- Sir inaam de rahe hain ke tip de rahe hain which prompted him to reach out to BCCI and come back with a rather substantial offer. By that token Sunny should have been spanked then, as also other cricketers of thinking this. Obviously Asia Cup hockey is not the same as World cup cricket win, but to see today's hockey players offered what would be a fraction of what was offered 30 years back is rather shameful. By the by what are you thoughts on prize purse in Tennis, football etc. You want them all to be taken off as well :winky: You carefully ignored the point (and many others) - Does HI have sufficient money? And is increasing the prize money is the best use of the money, can it not be used in other ways to promote the sports? Talking about Tennis/Football.. - unnecessary tangent.... Anyway, I can tell you about snooker/billiards. In India - 2-3 years back when I checked, first place prize money for men's snooker/billiards at National level was - 20K. (a year before I had won bigger prize money in some computer game tourney!!). And guess who was the winner? - Pankaj Advani. Did you ever hear him cry about the prize money? As far as I remember, he never did.. and having spent few sessions with his coach - I know for sure, that he plays more for the passion for the sports than the money part. Ohh, and when did I say that there should be no prize money?
ravishingravi Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/hockey/Asian-Champion-Indian-hockey-team-rejects-meagre-prize-money/articleshow/9978270.cms 25,000 rupees for beating Pak in Final? Hockey might be 2nd nature but give me a break! I wish our cricketers would stand up, make a pool and distribute it Eh!! I don't think our cricketers stand up for their cricket team's interests, so to ask them to support the hockey players is a bridge too far.
Lurker Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 You carefully ignored the point (and many others) - Does HI have sufficient money? And is increasing the prize money is the best use of the money, can it not be used in other ways to promote the sports? Actually I didnt ignore anything. I clearly stated "lets start with this" and not "lets talk about this only". We can always come back to this point, I picked what I personally thought was worth discussing first since in Indian sports typically equates to cricket, unfortunately. Talking about Tennis/Football.. - unnecessary tangent.... Anyway, I can tell you about snooker/billiards. In India - 2-3 years back when I checked, first place prize money for men's snooker/billiards at National level was - 20K. (a year before I had won bigger prize money in some computer game tourney!!). There was a reason I specifically asked you about tennis and football. These sports are those where players have openly stated they wont participate in tournaments where they are not amply paid. As a tennis player it should be no greater achievement than playing in Davis Cup or Olympics. So why doesnt it happen? What about NBA? How often do we hear the millionaire players openly stating they dont care about it. Why would an Indian hockey player be the beacon of moral in modern world sports. Hope that explains better where I am coming from. xxx
akshayxyz Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 There was a reason I specifically asked you about tennis and football. These sports are those where players have openly stated they wont participate in tournaments where they are not amply paid. As a tennis player it should be no greater achievement than playing in Davis Cup or Olympics. So why doesnt it happen? What about NBA? How often do we hear the millionaire players openly stating they dont care about it. Why would an Indian hockey player be the beacon of moral in modern world sports. Hope that explains better where I am coming from. xxx My PoV is irrespective of the sport. It is a sad state that players have started boycotting the sport. If they are getting money elsewhere, and that is their primary objective - then so be it! Money is about economics/business, if no one sees return in Hockey, no one is going to invest - and players are free to explore other options. I will get back to NBA/millionaire point later.
Rajiv Posted September 15, 2011 Author Posted September 15, 2011 Money is a strong incentive, and seeing cricketers showered with $$, its unfair for these individuals. They don't even get a chance to do ads, so I don't buy this satyawadi responses....everyone needs money and 25K is just wrong
ganeshran Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 Akshay, I dont think its right to compare snooker, which is primarily an individual game with team sports like cricket, football and hockey. Winning tournaments while representing your country is an achievement which has far more sentimental value to a nation's people than an individual winning a tourney representing himself. If Pankaj Advani wins a gold medal in the Olympics (Hypothetically speaking) and his award is 40K, do you think he will take it without protesting.
akshayxyz Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 Money is a strong incentive' date=' and seeing cricketers showered with $$, its unfair for these individuals. They don't even get a chance to do ads, so I don't buy this satyawadi responses....everyone needs money and 25K is just wrong[/quote'] Would you donate towards the prize money fund?
akshayxyz Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 Akshay, I dont think its right to compare snooker, which is primarily an individual game with team sports like cricket, football and hockey. Winning tournaments while representing your country is an achievement which has far more sentimental value to a nation's people than an individual winning a tourney representing himself. So, an Asiad gold medal in billiards is less than Hockey gold medal at the same competition? If Pankaj Advani wins a gold medal in the Olympics (Hypothetically speaking) and his award is 40K, do you think he will take it without protesting. I have you a real example, prize money in Snooker/Billiards Nationals has been 20K or so till few years back ( I did not check in last 2-3 years).. and at the same time there have been tonnes of money in professional pool. (In fact, in UK even snooker can get you 100s f 1000s of pounds a year.) Yet Pankaj, Geet Sethi etal continue playing the sport for the passion.... One can even ask SRT of his earlier career - why he picked cricket.. Did he have any millionaire example before him? I have a book recommendation here - "Success vs Joy" - Geet Sethi, this one is very quick read - with in a day...I suggest purchasing this, you will be contributing a bit to Geeth Sethi, who was one of the biggest matter of pride - before SRT and Vishy. One more - "Touch Play" - Prakash Padukone.
Rajiv Posted September 15, 2011 Author Posted September 15, 2011 Why the public? What kinda silly question is that. If Indian Hockey can't then the govt should give them. I said cricketers should pool in as they make so much so why not help other sports
akshayxyz Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 Why the public? What kinda silly question is that. If Indian Hockey can't then the govt should give them. I said cricketers should pool in as they make so much so why not help other sports And where does govt get the money from?
akshayxyz Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 I am not sure, but can anyone tell me - what is the prize money associated with Asian Games Gold medal...and Olympics Gold Medal.
Rajiv Posted September 15, 2011 Author Posted September 15, 2011 And where does govt get the money from? Taxes and corruption
ganeshran Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 So, an Asiad gold medal in billiards is less than Hockey gold medal at the same competition? If the individual is representing himself and not his country, then his prize has a lower level of emotional value for the general public than a team event winning a competition while represnting the country. In high profile events like Olympics or Commonwealth, even individual athletes represent their country and consequently are rewarded more. I have you a real example, prize money in Snooker/Billiards Nationals has been 20K or so till few years back ( I did not check in last 2-3 years).. and at the same time there have been tonnes of money in professional pool. (In fact, in UK even snooker can get you 100s f 1000s of pounds a year.) Yet Pankaj, Geet Sethi etal continue playing the sport for the passion.... One can even ask SRT of his earlier career - why he picked cricket.. Did he have any millionaire example before him? I have a book recommendation here - "Success vs Joy" - Geet Sethi, this one is very quick read - with in a day...I suggest purchasing this, you will be contributing a bit to Geeth Sethi, who was one of the biggest matter of pride - before SRT and Vishy. One more - "Touch Play" - Prakash Padukone. There was a study done at a US university few years back on what motivates people to perform and excel. they found that financial incentive has no connection with the level of performance of athletes - something which would vindicate your stand. However, they also found that though presence of more money isnt necessarily a motivator, the lack of financial reward is certainly a demotivator. In other words, you have to pay people enough to take the issue of money off the table - even for the ones who perform for passion alone. 25K is certainly a demotivator
ganeshran Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 I am not sure' date=' but can anyone tell me - what is the prize money associated with Asian Games Gold medal...and Olympics Gold Medal.[/quote'] There are no fixed prize money since these Olympic medals are quire rare for India, however athletes gain in crores through grants by various state governments. Asian medals would be worth lakhs atleast
akshayxyz Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 There are no fixed prize money since these Olympic medals are quire rare for India' date=' however athletes gain in crores through grants by various state governments. Asian medals would be worth lakhs atleast[/quote'] I am not talking prize money by govt, sponsors.. I am talking about is there any monetary award associated with Olympic medal?
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