Umesh yadav-pretty impressive.

[The Outsider]

Marshall, 135-145? At best fast medium? LOL!

[Crookbond]

Rapid' date=' yes, but not express. Marshall was more like what Steyn is now. [b']Marshall did not even have the bowling action to be an express bowler.

No comments on Marshall but bowling action is not a finite set of elements in the world which you can be sure of to be an express bowler. You can have a non-express bowling action and still be an express bowler.

[Crookbond]

Marshall' date=' 135-145? At best fast medium? LOL![/quote'] :hmmmm2:

[rkt.india]

No comments on Marshall but bowling action is not a finite set of elements in the world which you can be sure of to be an express bowler. You can have a non-express bowling action and still be an express bowler.

Any examples.

[rkt.india]

Marshall' date=' [b']135-145? At best fast medium? LOL!

That was tongue in cheek. I meant he was fast, but not express as some people say. Marshall was like Steyn in terms of pace and approach both. He was no Lee, Thompson, or Akhtar as far pace is concerned.

[MCcricket]

Marshall was fast, maybe not 160 plus, but very fast and skiddy, later on his pace decreased a bit and he turned in to an excellent mover of the ball, my point was though with Dhawal, Chahar,Dinda are very mediocre, even B side state teams in sa and aust, England have better bowlers, they all bowl 123 to 132 k, all are between 5 6" to 5 8", without express pace or outstanding talent how will they ever succeed at test level. A test bowler or a strike bowler has to have basic speed which is 140 and above to be good at test level, he can then learn skills and mature like Zaheer did, if a bolwer bowls 135 to 140 k he should have outstanding control, be able to seam and swing on any wicket and either be like M Grath or Clarke,a bowler who bowls 125 on average how will he take wickets, he should be in a side only if he can average 45 with the bat then . One does not see a slow medium bowler becoming a fast medium , at the most given a miracle he can at best be medium fast around 128 to 136 which does not cut it at this level.Australia hardly have trundlers in their side, Mckay, S cLARKE WERE 2 BOWLERS ON THE SLOWER SIDE AND THEY WERE DISCARDED FAST ENOUGH, bRACKEN DID NOT PLAY TEST i BELIEVE FOR THE SAME REASON THOUGH HE WAS VERY TALL AND BOWLED A LOT FASTER THEN THESE GUYS, YES iNDIA SHOULD LOOK AT THEM AS BOWLERS ONLY IF THEY THINK THEY ARE MINNOWS LIKE CHINA, even Afghanistan has proper fast medium bowlers lol.

[MCcricket]

Any examples.

Shane Bond is the one closest in that category never bowled 155 plus but to me on average speed he was close to Express, as he constantly hit the batsmen and beat them with Speed.I don't think Marshall was any worse.

[King Tendulkar]

And I tell you Marshall was not express. He was at best fast medium. He was pretty much like Steyn, mainly between 135-145 in tests with swing and seam.

Possibly one of the worst posts ever. Marshall 135-145 :hysterical:

[The Outsider]

I meant fast' date=' not express.[/quote'] Marshall was as quick as any express bowler in spells. His pace dropped in the late 80s but that's natural for any bowler. Moreover, he had enough in his repertoire to not always rely on pace, but other skills which suited conditions more. Marshall was the quickest among the West Indian bowlers when they toured India in '83 with Gavaskar's bat infamously falling out from his hand on one Marshall delivery.

[rkt.india]

Shane Bond is the one closest in that category never bowled 155 plus but to me on average speed he was close to Express' date=' as he constantly hit the batsmen and beat them with Speed.I don't think Marshall was any worse.[/quote'] Dont think Marshall was faster than Bond.

[rkt.india]

Possibly one of the worst posts ever. Marshall 135-145 :hysterical:

You need to get the difference between fast and express. Express is one who could bowl 150-160K. Fast is one who cold bowl 140-150K. I have seen enough of Marshall bowling videos and did not find even one where he looked to be bowling 150+.

[MCcricket]

Dont think Marshall was faster than Bond.

I am not saying faster , but at his prime same pace bracket also because of his action and height he was very skiddy,

[Crookbond]

Any examples.

The converse is also true - can you tell me what are fast bowling actions?

[The Outsider]

You need to get the difference between fast and express. Express is one how could bowl 150-160K. Fast is one who cold bowl 140-150K. I have seen enough of Marshall bowling videos and did not find even one where he looked to be bowling 150+.

160? What are you talking about? Lee, Akhtar no one could bowl more than a handful of deliveries above even 155 in a test match spell. Lee, Akhtar, Bond would all have average speeds of around 145-150 over a test match. Marshall was in the same range.

[rkt.india]

The converse is also true - can you tell me what are fast bowling actions?

Strong actions, where body is aligned well and bowler does not look tied in a shell while delivering the ball, bowler has good pivot and load up to the crease with strong front foot block. The fastest bowler in history mostly had side on action, round armish, or slingy. Examples Lillie, Tyson, Thompson, Akhtar, Lee, Tait, Holding, Bishop, Bond.

[rkt.india]

160? What are you talking about? Lee' date=' Akhtar no one could bowl more than a handful of deliveries above even 155 in a test match spell. Lee, Akhtar, Bond would all have average speeds of around 145-150 over a test match. Marshall was in the same range.[/quote'] Marshall would be even lower if you talk about average pace pretty much like Dale Steyn. Though I think this discussion is a trivial discussion as pace alone does not make anyone a great bowler. Marhsall was any day better bowler than Akhtar and Lee.

[Crookbond]

Strong actions' date=' where body is aligned well and bowler does not look tied in a shell while delivering the ball, bowler has good pivot and load up to the crease with strong front foot block.[b'] The fastest bowler in history mostly had side on action, round armish, or slingy. Examples Lillie, Tyson, Thompson, Akhtar, Lee, Tait, Holding, Bishop, Bond.

Aren't there bowlers which such actions who are not phaast? :dontknow:

[rkt.india]

Aren't there bowlers which such actions who are not phaast? :dontknow:

Not everyone with such actions will be fast. You must understand this theory better. There are bowlers like Morne Morkel whose action is such that does not look to be an action of a genuine quick but he has the ability to bowl that quick even with this action. Any other guy may not bowl that quick with Morkel's action but my theory is if he had an action like Shaun Tait or Thommo or Lillie, Morne could have bowled as quick as they did but he does not because it is one thing to have the ability and another to have the tool to execute that ability which has not been with Morne Morkel as his action limits his pace to certain extent and he has never reached at his fastest best due to that. He has the ability but lacked that tool which is the bowling action to execute that to its maximum. It does not mean if one has some particular bowling action, he will bowl quick no matter what. No, he wont until he has the ability to bowl quick. But if he has the ability to bowl quick, a particular bowling action can take the best out of the pace he has. Ian Pont works on the same aspect for fast bowlers and their bowling actions. If he cannot change their action, he works on making certain little tweaks to increase their pace. He had done that with Steyn in his early years.

[Crookbond]

It does not mean if one has some particular bowling action, he will bowl quick no matter what. No, he wont until he has the ability to bowl quick. But if he has the ability to bowl quick, a particular bowling action can take the best out of the pace he has. Ian Pont works on the same aspect for fast bowlers and their bowling actions. If he cannot change their action, he works on making certain little tweaks to increase their pace. He had done that with Steyn in his early years.

That was my point of contention. Given what you have said, you should not bring in Marshall's action into the discussion to prove he was not express, no?

[rkt.india]

That was my point of contention. Given what you have said' date=' you should not bring in Marshall's action into the discussion to prove he was not express, no?[/quote'] Why not? When I say he did not have the kind of action which could bring out his optimum pace. My argument is even a Genuine can become a trundler if he opts for a different action which does not bring out the best in him. Take an example of Imran Khan who was a trundler in his early days but he altered his action and turned himself into a genuine quick. Bowling action is an important aspect for a fast bowler as any other basic thing. Actually, bowling is the first basic building block for success. Bowling action determine whether one bowls outswing or inswing.