Andrew Peter Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Inzy is not an all time great and neither is Laxman.Chanderpaul is a better player than both Laxman and Inzy and i dont think he is considered an ATG by many. They are greats of their country without question but ATG is not something that should be brandished easily imo. Correct . Hence if Laxman is an ATG then so is Inzamam & many others , atleast Inzamam excelled in both formats of the game whereas Laxman was never a serious contender for the Odis.
master22 Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Correct . Hence if Laxman is an ATG then so is Inzamam & many others ' date=' atleast Inzamam excelled in both formats of the game whereas Laxman was never a serious contender for the Odis.[/quote'] But there is no reason to rate inzi ahead of sehwag and dravid
Manu80 Posted November 23, 2011 Author Posted November 23, 2011 Inzamam was a batsmen who scored most of his runs in asian pitches both in tests and ODI.His record in both formats of the game in alien pitches are very bad.He can be termed as a pakistani great since they lack quality batsmen.but outside pakistan he was an ordinary batsman hyped up by his fanatic fans
pensionplan Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 VVS is a pretty good player and has a couple of things in his favor... 1. His excellent record against the best/toughest team in his era - Australia. 2. His amazing 4th innings efforts that resulted in his team winning numerous games. But to be labeled an All Time Great you have to have decent records against other teams as well and Laxman falls in that category as his performances against other decent sides such as England, SA and Pakistan aren't much to write about. VVS: A modern great - yes, an All Time Great - no. Agree with post above. I am a huge fan of VVS and he has been India's best clutch player for last few years. If I have to rate three best test innings by Indian batsmen in last couple of years, I may three innings from Laxman only - Mohali, Colombo and Durban. But despite this I would say that his records has ceratin gaping holes and holes which can not be attributed to just lack of opportunity. I was very much hoping that he'll perform well in England this time and will clear many doubts. But unfortunately that didn't happen and his capabilities against swing bowling remained suspect. I have always felt that there is certain laziness in his approach to batting which on one side imparts elegance to his style, on the other side limits his success against moving ball.Here is the deal. A lot has been made about VVS's England exploits the same tracks and conditions on which Anil Kumble and Ajit Agarkar scored their only Test centuries. VVS averages more in England than RD averages in SA, Ponting and Lara in India, Kallis in England. And VVS's average in England is 35 with 5 scores of fifty or more and 10 scores of 30 plus in 19 innings which clearly does not make him a dud by any stretch of the imagination. While batting at No.6 has clearly taken away opportunities to score big on the earlier tours(2002, 2007) he surely was below his best this time around. That can happen to any player at this level. The point is whether one considers VVS as an ATG or not (very subjective as I mentioned in earlier posts) his 35 average in England should not be the reason to penalise him since RD, RP, BCL, JK all have atleast one other abroad conditions they played in where they averaged lesser than VVS did in England. In the event that 35 average in one of the conditions to be the reason for VVS being not considered that should also automatically disqualify RD, RP, BCL and JK in the ATG category. Just want to leave that thought out there.
BeautifulGame Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 But there is no reason to rate inzi ahead of sehwag and dravid Anyone with a half decent brain wouldnt rate Inzy a better batsmen than Dravid in test cricket.Sehwag is a different matter altogether though. Frankly Sehwag shouldnt be mentioned alongside Dravid either.Dravid in test cricket is a level above the likes of Inzy and Sehwag.
Ultimate_Game Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Anyone with a half decent brain wouldnt rate Inzy a better batsmen than Dravid in test cricket.Sehwag is a different matter altogether though. Frankly Sehwag shouldnt be mentioned alongside Dravid either.Dravid in test cricket is a level above the likes of Inzy and Sehwag. I see it differently... there are many middle order or no. 3 batsmen who have stats equal or better than Dravid, i.e. Ponting, Lara, Sangakkara etc. But there's no batsman comparable to Sehwag as an opener in Tests. The guy averages 50+ with bunch of double tons and 2 triple tons and that too at a SR of 80!!! This is unheard of in the history of the game and puts Sehwag in a different categoy altogether. One of the reasons for India reaching test ranking of 1 has been Sehwag. The guy scores so quickly and puts oppnents on back-foot within a session. Before Sehwag nobody could even imagine an opening batsman changinng the course of the match or seizing initiative for his team but Sehwag has managed to do that. Look at his 80 odd in 60 balls against Eng where India chased 387, or situations where he scored so quickly that he took the pressure off the other batsmen. Beauty of Sehwag is that the opponents become so frazzled they don't even worry about batsmen at the other end and before you know it others reap the benefits of Sehwag putting the opposition in a tizzy. Just to emphasze the value of Sehwag to India, the other well known aggressive openers were Hayden, Slater, Jayasuriya etc. and guess what - they struggle to even get to a SR of 60 and averaging less than Sehwag! No batsman in the history of the game has ever scored so heavily and at such a quick rate ever. To compare Sehwag with Inzimam or to claim Dravid is in a different class to Sehwag is discrediting Sehwag.
kirkutfan Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 All time would mean over generations. In the late 70s, Pakistan had Majid,Zaheer,Asif, and Javed. I am not sure that Inzamam cracks this line up. I think it is safe to say that Inzamam is a Pakistani great of the 90s.
BeautifulGame Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 I see it differently... there are many middle order or no. 3 batsmen who have stats equal or better than Dravid, i.e. Ponting, Lara, Sangakkara etc. But there's no batsman comparable to Sehwag as an opener in Tests. The guy averages 50+ with bunch of double tons and 2 triple tons and that too at a SR of 80!!! This is unheard of in the history of the game and puts Sehwag in a different categoy altogether. One of the reasons for India reaching test ranking of 1 has been Sehwag. The guy scores so quickly and puts oppnents on back-foot within a session. Before Sehwag nobody could even imagine an opening batsman changinng the course of the match or seizing initiative for his team but Sehwag has managed to do that. Look at his 80 odd in 60 balls against Eng where India chased 387, or situations where he scored so quickly that he took the pressure off the other batsmen. Beauty of Sehwag is that the opponents become so frazzled they don't even worry about batsmen at the other end and before you know it others reap the benefits of Sehwag putting the opposition in a tizzy. Just to emphasze the value of Sehwag to India, the other well known aggressive openers were Hayden, Slater, Jayasuriya etc. and guess what - they struggle to even get to a SR of 60 and averaging less than Sehwag! No batsman in the history of the game has ever scored so heavily and at such a quick rate ever. To compare Sehwag with Inzimam or to claim Dravid is in a different class to Sehwag is discrediting Sehwag. And how many of his centuries have come away from sub continent? And how many centuries Dravid have scored away from home? How many times his quick scoring knocks have set up win away from sub continent compared with snail paced Dravid? No point having a strike rate of 70 or 80 when u are getting out for 20s and 30s.And thats what he always does away from sub continent.Only place he flourished away from sub continent was in Aus where the wickets were flat. Shewag is one of the greatest batmen for us no denying that because he played so many great knocks for us even if most of them are in sub continent. But Dravid is an all time great.One of the greatest batsmen of all time who mastered all conditions like few could do.Comparing Sehwag with Dravid is laughable to say the least.
Manu80 Posted November 23, 2011 Author Posted November 23, 2011 And how many of his centuries have come away from sub continent? And how many centuries Dravid have scored away from home? How many times his quick scoring knocks have set up win away from sub continent compared with snail paced Dravid? No point having a strike rate of 70 or 80 when u are getting out for 20s and 30s.And thats what he always does away from sub continent.Only place he flourished away from sub continent was in Aus where the wickets were flat. Shewag is one of the greatest batmen for us no denying that because he played so many great knocks for us even if most of them are in sub continent. But Dravid is an all time great.One of the greatest batsmen of all time who mastered all conditions like few could do.Comparing Sehwag with Dravid is laughable to say the least.
Manu80 Posted November 23, 2011 Author Posted November 23, 2011 Comparing sehwag with dravid is not on.but sehwag with the technique he had has scored centuries in south Africa, Australia,and in England.Respect for him. Sehwag is far better a player than padosis ATG Inzi :haha:
yoda Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Yes he is a great. Now all time great or not depends on how many are allowed there. I would guess he would make it to the top 100 all time batters list, not sure about top 50 or lower.
Vijay.Sharma Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Inzamam Is Not an All time great.He might just be pakistan's best batsman.His record speaks for himself.Per me he is. But I will not be too bothered if others do not rate him as highly. I will definitely be bothered if others dont rate him as an "era great" (modern era...post 90) or Pakistan ATG
Ultimate_Game Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 And how many of his centuries have come away from sub continent? And how many centuries Dravid have scored away from home? How many times his quick scoring knocks have set up win away from sub continent compared with snail paced Dravid? No point having a strike rate of 70 or 80 when u are getting out for 20s and 30s.And thats what he always does away from sub continent.Only place he flourished away from sub continent was in Aus where the wickets were flat. Shewag is one of the greatest batmen for us no denying that because he played so many great knocks for us even if most of them are in sub continent. But Dravid is an all time great.One of the greatest batsmen of all time who mastered all conditions like few could do.Comparing Sehwag with Dravid is laughable to say the least. 1. Sehwag has scored runs all over - in India, SL (that 200 when all around him failed was a classic), SA, Aus, Pak etc. so your argument "how many centuries outside subcontinent" doesn't hold much water. I can very well come back with "how many triple hundreds or fastest doubles etc." 2. Your comment "having a strike rate of 70 or 80 when u are getting out for 20s and 30s" is laughable. You don't average 50+ scoring "20s or 30s". India's ascension to no. 1 Test had a lot to do with Sehwag and it's no coincidence India started performing better only after Sehwag became such a successful opener else we would have been playing with the likes of Devang Gandhi, Akash Chopra etc. and nowhere close to the top. Sehwag's impact was so great that he even made the likes of Akash Chopra look good while batting with him. All I can say is that if we are picking an All Time XI, Sehwag will be in discussion based on the impact he made as a Test opener, whereas there will be any no. of batsmen to fill the middle order and Dravid wouldn't get in. To me if I am assembling a World XI it would be easier for Sehwag to walk in compared to Dravid. As for Sehwag not able to perform in the swinging conditions, it's more to do with his failure in the recent Eng series where he showed up unfit and shouldn't have been sent as he was neither fit nor match-ready. As an example here are a couple of examples I have taken from India's trip to NZ in 2002-03. Granted these innings are odi innings but I saw those games and I haven't seen too many venues more conducive to seam and swing where getting to 20 itself was a herculean task and Sehwag was the only Indian batsman to perform... http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64814.html http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64818.html
Bumper Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 India's ascension to no. 1 Test had a lot to do with Sehwag and it's no coincidence India started performing better only after Sehwag became such a successful opener else we would have been playing with the likes of Devang Gandhi, Akash Chopra etc. and nowhere close to the top. Sehwag's impact was so great that he even made the likes of Akash Chopra look good while batting with him. Exactly! To me, Sehwag is the single most influential Indian player of the decade, infact, is the prime reason for India's resurrection as a test nation this decade. There have been numerous factors that has helped India's rise as a test nation. Our middle order, Zaheer, Ganguly/Dhoni as leaders etc, but the overarching factor for me is Sehwag. We had Srinath, Kumble in the 90s, pretty much the same middle order, but never had a solid test opener and we always failed overseas. It is after Sehwag's rise as an opener our fortunes took a U-turn. We got consistently good starts that our middle order cashed in on to build big totals and our bowlers started looking a lot more potent. We even had an interesting debate on ICF on this a while ago... http://indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=116052&page=5
BeautifulGame Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Exactly! To me, Sehwag is the single most influential Indian player of the decade, infact, is the prime reason for India's resurrection as a test nation this decade. There have been numerous factors that has helped India's rise as a test nation. Our middle order, Zaheer, Ganguly/Dhoni as leaders etc, but the overarching factor for me is Sehwag. We had Srinath, Kumble in the 90s, pretty much the same middle order, but never had a solid test opener and we always failed overseas. It is after Sehwag's rise as an opener our fortunes took a U-turn. We got consistently good starts that our middle order cashed in on to build big totals and our bowlers started looking a lot more potent. We even had an interesting debate on ICF on this a while ago... http://indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=116052&page=5 Is this for real? Sehwag the biggest reason for our reason as India's rise as test nation and our success overseas? Sehwag havent scored a single 50 in matches we have won in Australia or South Africa or England or New Zea land or west indies.I am not even about match winning hundreds but he havent scored a single 50 in any of those wins outside sub continent. Whereas Dravid hit a 200 and 70 in our win in Adelaide , Scored a match winning hundred in Headingly , Scored 92 in Perth , scored 2 50's in both innings in West Indies when no one else scored a 50 from either side and then scored a century in Kingston few months ago. Yep its Sehwag's rise that's the biggest reason we started winning overseas not Dravid :facepalm: Its laughable that there is even a comparison btw Dravid's contribution overseas with Sehwag's.Just goes to show how ridiculously underrated Dravid is among some of our fans.
Manu80 Posted November 23, 2011 Author Posted November 23, 2011 Per me he is. But I will not be too bothered if others do not rate him as highly. I will definitely be bothered if others dont rate him as an "era great" (modern era...post 90) or Pakistan ATG Definitely not an era great.There are many good batsman who can be considered better than Inzamam in both format of the game in the era you mentioned.As per pakistani batting standard he can be termed as a pakistani great but not an era great or ATG :giggle:
Manny_Pacquiao Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 this obese hack isnt even rated by his own people! Former Pakistan fast bowler Sarfraz Nawaz said Inzamam-ul Haq should step down as captain after England scored their first home Test series win against the South Asian team in 24 years. "In the best interest of the game, Inzamam should retire immediately and (vice captain) Younis Khan should be made the captain," said Sarfraz, acclaimed as the pioneer of reverse swing. "Inzamam is scared of short pitched deliveries, he can't even negotiate short balls by a spinner." England beat Pakistan by 167 runs on the fifth and final day of the third Test at Headingley earlier this week. The victory saw England take an unbeatable 2-0 lead in the four-Test encounter. The first Test was drawn. Burly Inzamam became a figure of fun after his dismissal in the first innings, when he fell into his own stumps attempting a sweep shot against left-arm spinner Monty Panesar. :hysterical: Pakistan's batting in the second innings crumbled for 155 runs while chasing a target of 323 in the possible 90 overs on the last day.
Manu80 Posted November 23, 2011 Author Posted November 23, 2011 this obese hack isnt even rated by his own people! That dismissal is one of the funniest incident i have seen in the cricket field.And the look on his face after that was just :haha:
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