anotherhawkeye Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Yes' date=' I think we should have the right to take our own lives. In a similar vein, euthanasia should be legalized too. It's not anyone's business to tell me that I should live.[/quote'] I agree. Unless they are going to make my life pleasant when I live - that is, unless they are going to give me free food, free place to stay , free car, iPad and free ****s - government should get the heck out of my life (or death). Tired of government involvement in every day life.
Mariyam Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Since we are not looking the the moral aspect' date=' what contract do I have with "society". I might have contracts with individuals or instutions but I can't recall a clause ever reading that mortgagor cannot slit his throat till he outstanding amount is paid off. Besides, society is too wide a term. Although one can argue that it is implicit. But then you have to ask the question whether life or right to live was explicitly provided to me or merely thrust upon me with no option. As far as the family is concerned, purely from legal perspective, I can't see how that can be used as an argument for criminalisation of suicide, since I could very well be alive and a bum, and making their life a living hell and not be a criminal. The truth is law is a derivative perceived morality at some level and unfortunately most of life lies in this huge vacuum of moral ambiguity.[/quote'] The arguement for 'criminalization' of suicides isn't explicitly on the lines of harm to family/friends etc. The underlying logic for punishing a failed suicide attempt is that the persons actions (suicide) adversely affects others around him who have or no want no part of it. Compare the punishment as listed by the IPC on attempted suicide with that of murder and that of some petty crime. The misconception that we've some very draconian laws on suicide. We don't. Keeping religious beliefs/morals aside, I don't even think that a person has the right to his life. We're having cases where kids suicide for flunking exams and/or not getting placed in the IT sweatshop of their choice. Don't tell me that the suicide-er never has a choice but to suicide. Its not that he/she always knows best. Lets not kid ourselves. If society is a very loose term, replace that with State. It is the failure of the state if its citizenry attempt suicides. And suicides are something that we can detect only after an attempt. Can the state not attempt to deter suicides?
bihutoli Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Keeping religious beliefs/morals aside, I don't even think that a person has the right to his life. We're having cases where kids suicide for flunking exams and/or not getting placed in the IT sweatshop of their choice. Don't tell me that the suicide-er never has a choice but to suicide. Its not that he/she always knows best. Lets not kid ourselves. If society is a very loose term, replace that with State. It is the failure of the state if its citizenry attempt suicides. And suicides are something that we can detect only after an attempt. Can the state not attempt to deter suicides? I don't think children are subject to criminal prosecution when attempting suicide. Also I do agree that even adults may not be in the proper frame of mind when they attempt suicide. But we are talking about the state's actions post the attempt. There is no way that prosecution can be considered a better measure than counselling.
Mariyam Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 ^^^ When I said kids, I meant college students!! I'm not saying that prosecution is better than counseling. IMO, Counselling ( with a short jail term) should be a part of the prosecution/treatment.
Tiger80 Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 The underlying logic for punishing a failed suicide attempt is that the persons actions (suicide) adversely affects others around him who have or no want no part of it. You mean if a single lonely person attempt to commit suicide then there is no punishment?
DomainK Posted January 20, 2012 Author Posted January 20, 2012 Irrespective of age, gender, and socio-economic conditions, suicide is usually, if not always, a result of some deep psychological disturbance. Logically the person should be offered treatment and not jail term.
Tiger80 Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Irrespective of age' date=' gender, and socio-economic conditions, suicide is usually, if not always, a result of some deep psychological disturbance. Logically the person should be offered treatment and not jail term.[/quote'] In a country with very big population like India,neither the prison nor the counselling is practically possible.1 lakh 20 thousand people commit suicide in India and there are reports that around 4 lakhs to 2 million attempt to commit suicide every year.India's entire prison population is 3 lakh 36 thousand which means if police start registering all these cases then a very large number of police personals will be required just to cater people which try to commit suicide and this will require so much of resources from govt.Now in a country where so many people who (wants to live) die because there are not appropriate medical facilities should spend so much on people who don't even want to live?
Vijay.Sharma Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Depends on what your perspective is. Think of a suicide-er as a murderer' date=' whose act is in accordance with the wishes of the victim, but not with those of his family/relatives/coworkers etc. As against an actual murderer, whose act is neither in accordance with the wishes of the victim nor those closely associated with the victim. [/quote']I choose the perspective of the individual. If the individual feels he has no business living this life then he should have the freedom to die.
Vijay.Sharma Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 @ Tdigi : Point noted :D @ Vijay.Sharma: What sarkari form gives you the option of 'none'???? You reside in India, don't you? AFAIK, apart from the options of the various religions, there exists an option 'others' where in you have to specify what religious group you belong to. You can write 'none' or 'sachinism' or '11th hour trollism' etc in that. But 'none' in itself is not an option.Just a couple of sarkari forms I had to fill. And IIRC in my marriage form there was no multiple choice so you had to mention the actual religion and I said "None". In another form there were options and like you mention there was "Others" but I entered None and explained the fellow why I wrote None and not Others. He was ok with it. "Other" is not a container for "None". Other assumes you follow a religion. Anyway it dunn bother me a bit how "others" is perceived by others. All that matters to me is that I follow no religion and wherever asked to mention a religion I have been mentioning "None". Edit - I couldn't care a damn even if my country's constitution forces me to choose a religion. Balls to the law and to the country if it has to force down a religion to me. I don't believe in religion and it ends there whether the President of the country likes it or not. If she or the Chief Justice or the PM dunn like it they are welcome to kiss my ass. Who the fu
Vijay.Sharma Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Well majority of people follow religion by birth' date='choice is word that is probably alien to 1 billion of population of India[/quote']I am not in that one billion
Vijay.Sharma Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 When you are depressed, you dont really care about religion. I can personally understand why someone who is depressed would want to kill himself. Mental illness can be treated but can not be cured always. A colleague's father committed suicide after suffering from mental illness for 10+ years, as a child he may never forgive him but he understands that his dad just couldnt take it anymore. I understand what his father must have gone through and trust me if you suffer from sleepless nights, sweaty palms, suicide thoughts , feel like crying every day for a decade, would you want to live on ? People dont realize that patients dont logically think about suicide most of the time, it just pops up in the head. Sometimes while driving, sometimes while trying to sleep the brain would throw ideas and scenarios. You cant escape it and not for 10 yearsAlso suicide ain't an easy act. It takes bloody lot of guts to do it and ppl who think it's a cowardly act have no idea the amount of courage it requires to take your own life, jump to your death, swallow poison, come in front of a truck, whatever. Edit - The above dunn mean I am glorifying it. All I am saying is that the "cowardly act" thingy is a lil OTT
Vijay.Sharma Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 The arguement for 'criminalization' of suicides isn't explicitly on the lines of harm to family/friends etc. The underlying logic for punishing a failed suicide attempt is that the persons actions (suicide) adversely affects others around him who have or no want no part of it. Compare the punishment as listed by the IPC on attempted suicide with that of murder and that of some petty crime. The misconception that we've some very draconian laws on suicide. We don't. Keeping religious beliefs/morals aside, I don't even think that a person has the right to his life. We're having cases where kids suicide for flunking exams and/or not getting placed in the IT sweatshop of their choice. Don't tell me that the suicide-er never has a choice but to suicide. Its not that he/she always knows best. Lets not kid ourselves. If society is a very loose term, replace that with State. It is the failure of the state if its citizenry attempt suicides. And suicides are something that we can detect only after an attempt. Can the state not attempt to deter suicides?:omg: So Mariyam, who has the right to your life? Allah? Jesus? Krishna? If a kid suicides it is because he has been brought up by his parents to believe that if he flunks 10th then he is worthless. In such a case, taking your angle about suicide affecting loved ones, I think it is fair punishment for the "loved ones" to have brought their kid up in such a way. ps: I personally find Krishna, and Jesus as cool dudes. Sid per me was a cool psycho rocker and Mo was very troubled
Desi Cartman Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Also suicide ain't an easy act. It takes bloody lot of guts to do it and ppl who think it's a cowardly act have no idea the amount of courage it requires to take your own life, jump to your death, swallow poison, come in front of a truck, whatever. Edit - The above dunn mean I am glorifying it. All I am saying is that the "cowardly act" thingy is a lil OTT I beg to differ, for someone depressed its the easiest thing to do the tough thing is to fight the temptation to end it. I fought it for years. Taking my life would been an easier path, trust me unless u gave experienced depression you have no freakibg idea what makes a person kill himself. The brain tells u do to it 24/7 almost as if there is a ghost inside u. It's scary .. I'd be half asleep but dreaming n planning about putting my head on a train track and this still happens.. It's thoughts which I can't control but I have learnt to deal with it but most people done have family or funds to back them up..
f.b.m Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 The belief that your life is solely your own can and will be challenged. Man is a social being, and has obligations and duties to society as a whole. When he decides to take his own life, he also kills a part of other peoples' lives- his family, friends, co-workers etc. Does he have a right to adversely affect their lives without seeking their permission? I dont think this can be a consistent, universal principle of any sort. If one has no right to adversely affect anyone else's life, what about the people (lets assume family and friends) who have driven a person to suicide? Havent they made the life of a person so miserable that he even contemplates ending his life? Arent friends and family, who according to you take ownership a part of one's life just as guilty for placing unreasonable demands so that if a guy doesnt make it to IIT, he is shamed/humiliated by them? Or if he/she wants to marry someone and the parents say no? It cant be a one way street where only the person can betray/hurt the people around him/her. Its both unreasonable and impossible to take ownership/responsibility for the lives of others. Its only possible to take ownership for your own actions (unless ofcourse you're a parent with a young child but thats a tangent). I would even say that without self ownership, its impossible to be ethical. Edit: All of this of course assumes that there is no such thing as clinical depression. Just to let you know desi, I havent got the faintest clue of what you might have gone through.
mishra Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Seven straight lossess and look what icfers are discussing :headshake:
Alchemist Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 I think that if strict laws are made regarding sucide, people comitting sucide will make sure that they don't fail.
ViruRulez Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Suicide should be decriminalized but it should not be promoted. I do not think anyone would promote it but then you can never say with our present media which will make anything to be cool for the sake of TRPs. One more thing. It should be that a person should just be let go after he or she tries to commit suicide. Instead of criminalization and jail, a proper medical and psychological diagnosis and treatment should be done to reduce the possibility of the person attempting suicide again. The cause behind it should be diagnosed and proper solutions provided.
f.b.m Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Suicide should be decriminalized but it should not be promoted. I do not think anyone would promote it but then you can never say with our present media which will make anything to be cool for the sake of TRPs. Promoting suicide would probably be bad for long term TRP ratings. Jus sayin.
ViruRulez Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Promoting suicide would probably be bad for long term TRP ratings. Jus sayin. India's birth rate is a lot higher than the growth rate. So, that should not be a problem. j/k I was just saying it lightly and not meaning something drastic. But media is trying to garner TRPs for just about anything in India. They are shaping up the population as per their wish.
Vijay.Sharma Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 I think that if strict laws are made regarding sucide' date=' people comitting sucide will make sure that they don't fail.[/quote']LOL! Nicely said
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