Dravid's captaincy.

[gator]

JF1 -> Nothing wrong with Dravids captaincy. He doesnt have the team to suit his style.

u dont change a team to suit the captain... u change a captain to suit the team....

[gator]

I say that is a very very wrong logic. We lost against Bangladesh coz of pathetic batting.Just 191 against a two-bit bowling attack. We won against Bermuda We lost against Sri lanka , again due to pathetic batting. Where does Dravid's captaincy come here ?

both the times, the batting was pathetic because of the poosy spirit floated around by their leader....

[Ram]

which part of these statement is contradictory... i dont get it.... if anything, in the natwest example i used... Dada scored 60 runs off an unbelievale 43 balls therefore rubbishing ur claims...

You havent contradicted anything anywhere. Your post seems to suggest a Ganguly style of captain is better than a Dravid style of captain, which is what i had reservations against.

[gator]

You won't get away with that here, Gats. Defamatory, slanderous...that's the second time you have cast aspersions on a true Indian great in two days. If I didn't know you better, I'd have thought you are Anu_D in disguise.

Dhonds.. u hit me where it hurts :wink_smile:... comparing me with tht beatch.... neways, its all cool... i jus couldnt stand hearing tht poosy comment after the way, we fought for 96 overs on a 4th innings pitch under overcast conditions in overseas territory... as much as i admire Dravid the great batter, i felt like slapping him silly for making tht poosy comment especially while the series is still ON...

[gator]

You havent contradicted anything anywhere. Your post seems to suggest a Ganguly style of captain is better than a Dravid style of captain' date=' which is what i had reservations against.[/quote'] YES.... considering, both captains are strategically very average.... i definitely am indicating tht Ganguly style captain who can perform more consistently, but not in a champion manner is definitely better than Dravid....

[Ram]

Mars man.... here is wat u said earlier... Quote: The best way then is to lead by example , like Imran did , Ranatunga da. By scoring the most runs , or taking the most wickets. Not by useless show of emotions. here is how u changed it later... Quote: Lemme say it again. Being a "star" doesnt just mean being the top wicket taker or run scorer. Both Imran and Ranatunga made CRUCIAL contribtions at various stages of the world cup, ( 92 & 99). Ganguly on the other hand , was a burden on his team , even when he was captain. __________________ what do u have to say about this, Mars...

I see where the confusion arises from. Read my post again. It says "he best way then is to lead by example , like Imran did , Ranatunga da. By scoring the most runs , or taking the most wickets.". Not once did i mention the world cup. When i said "scoring the most runs or taking the most wickets" i meant , they did it a admirable level of consistency for their team. Wrt the second quote , i have specifically pointed out to the world cups in contention , saying both Ranatunga and Imran ( even though didnt top score or take most wickets) played some crucial knocks, which led their team to victory in the championships.

[Ram]

YES.... considering' date=' both captains are strategically very average.... i definitely am indicating tht Ganguly style captain who [b']can perform more consistently, but not in a champion manner is definitely better than Dravid....

In that case , you should have modeled your post along the lines of " Dravid needs to get more agressive" . Your opening post seemed to a DIRECT comparison between ganguly and dravid , not an agressive and non-agressive captain. I do agree that certain aspect of what you say , but the question is , who is that agressive guy who can perform decently ?

[gator]

I do agree that certain aspect of what you say , but the question is , who is that agressive guy who can perform decently ?

tht is a whole discussion in itself... now tht we both agree, Dravid's got to go for spreading poosy philosophy, we can try to find out, who is in the horizon who will fit the bill of a brand of captaincy which works best for subcontinental players only...

In that case , you should have modeled your post along the lines of " Dravid needs to get more agressive" .

tht aint gonna happen... he reminds me so much of "Everybody loves Raymond" - Ray.... he needs to be liked by everyone all the time... he would not utter one bad word about the enemy incase they stop liking him...

[Ram]

tht is a whole discussion in itself... now tht we both agree' date=' Dravid's got to go for spreading poosy philosophy, we can try to find out, who is in the horizon who will fit the bill of a brand of captaincy which works best for subcontinental players only...[/quote'] Dravid's got to go ? Thats a pretty drastic thing to say.

tht aint gonna happen... he reminds me so much of "Everybody loves Raymond" - Ray.... he needs to be liked by everyone all the time... he would not utter one bad word about the enemy incase they stop liking him...

I think the jury is still out on that. we still dont know what the men in question , the Indian cricket team members , feel about Dravid's captaincy. Many times , the line between a bad team and bad captain can be blurred. What i do feel is that , Dravid would much happier captaining a bunch of young guns , prepared to do his bidding and attack when asked, rather than a bunch of senile old men who wake up every morning with knee ache.

[jf1gp_1]

u dont change a team to suit the captain... u change a captain to suit the team....

Captain sets team vision. When a players shows promise its the captains duty to back him and make a game plan based on players ability. What the hell can the captain do when not even god knows how our player will perform on a given day. Sachin hit two brilliant 90+ scores against SA a few weeks ago against in an ODI, on a difficult pitch against a superior bowling attack but when it counted the most he made 9.

[zubinpepsi]

I see where the confusion arises from. Read my post again. It says "he best way then is to lead by example , like Imran did , Ranatunga da. By scoring the most runs , or taking the most wickets.". Not once did i mention the world cup. When i said "scoring the most runs or taking the most wickets" i meant , they did it a admirable level of consistency for their team. Wrt the second quote , i have specifically pointed out to the world cups in contention , saying both Ranatunga and Imran ( even though didnt top score or take most wickets) played some crucial knocks, which led their team to victory in the championships.

i think ur conveniently changing ur stmts to suit ur argument.. ranatunga is never a consistent performer.. if he wasnt the captain he wudnt have been in the team.. ganguly is much better than tht fat ass.. i think u mixup with great player and leadership skills.. dravid is the best batsman .. no doubt.. but he sucks as a captain..bookish captain.. as gator said we had tht chasing record in odis mainly cuz of pathan, dhoni and yuvi.. when their form degraded u know wat happend then.. ganguly might not have been batted well , he might have been a walking wicket but he inspired the youngsters and he supported them and his leadership was new to indian style..

[zubinpepsi]

Nothing wrong with Dravids captaincy. He doesnt have the team to suit his style. Being vocal on the field or in press doesnt make you an aggressive captain, its the field placement, batting order, line bowlers bowl thats shows the kind of captain you are.

:hysterical: Dravid , an aggresive captain..?? this shud be the joke of this year.. come on.. even shastri was quippin the other day tht dravid is very reactive... we dont need gentleman as captain.. captain shud be able to shove his ass up on the opponents. shud b ruthless and shud talk with pride and not like hehehe yeah we got off frm jail.. thts fukin pussie talk..

[Ram]

i think ur conveniently changing ur stmts to suit ur argument.. ranatunga is never a consistent performer.. if he wasnt the captain he wudnt have been in the team.. ganguly is much better than tht fat ass.. i think u mixup with great player and leadership skills.. dravid is the best batsman .. no doubt.. but he sucks as a captain..bookish captain.. as gator said we had tht chasing record in odis mainly cuz of pathan, dhoni and yuvi.. when their form degraded u know wat happend then.. ganguly might not have been batted well , he might have been a walking wicket but he inspired the youngsters and he supported them and his leadership was new to indian style..

Feel free to point out the anomaly in the clarification i have given. I would be more than willing to accept a mistake , IF i had made it. When we were discussing different captains , the names of Ranatunga and Imran came up. I told they were " top perfromers" more in reference to how they made key and consistent contributions to their team's victories, more than Ganguly did , when he was captain I wonder if you dispute that. And i beg to dis-agree when you said Ranatunga was a bad batsman. At a time when Sri lanka was finding its feet in cricket , Ranatunga was a pillar of its batting. He made a staggering 50 50's in ODI cricket. Please point out atleast 4 contemporaries of Ranatunga who had a similar record in the lankan team

[zubinpepsi]

I see where the confusion arises from. Read my post again. It says "he best way then is to lead by example , like Imran did , Ranatunga da. By scoring the most runs , or taking the most wickets.". Not once did i mention the world cup. When i said "scoring the most runs or taking the most wickets" i meant , they did it a admirable level of consistency for their team.

what do u mean by most runs n most wickets? in a match or in a series or in the career? then ganguly is more consistent than ranatunga

[Ram]

what do u mean by most runs n most wickets? in a match or in a series or in the career? then ganguly is more consistent than ranatunga

The keywords are " key and consistent contribution in the team's victories". Ganguly was an awesome batsman , but towards the end of his stint as captain , was the team's biggest burden. Imran or Ranatunga never put themselves in a similar situation.

[theguyinallblue]

OK....it took me a while to read all the posts... no doubt Ganguly is aggresive....lekin apni galli me kutta bhi sher hota hai... when you have your troops killing everything which comes their way..their general will always be cocky... Gator : do you remember when we won the first match in SA..what was the reaction of Dravid..? it was so good to see him waving indian flag..hugging dhoni and other players... OK..one example i want to give here when we toured pakistan just after aussie tour..and after winning test series in pakistan.. we scored 350 something..and inzi cme very close to winning that game...do you know how tense was the atmosphere..? NOW..can you recall...the post match presentation...what ganguly said..? you will know how different situations demand different treatment... and this OP suggests as if Dravid takes all things lying down...which is not true... although he does not do OTT things..but he is equally competitive and mean.. one can see that Dravid does not like to lose....and any person who wants to win always...will have a never say die attitude..which will come out automatically..though in different forms... Hail ..The Gladiator.. The conqueror ..The Rahul Dravid:thumbs_up: a true picture of character comes our

[yoda]

Hail ..The Gladiator.. The conqueror ..The Rahul Dravid:thumbs_up:

:haha: Dravid is a modest, humble, hardworking, professional, dedicated cricketer. I agree that he is a misfit for the indian cricket team.

[King]

For starters, Rahul Dravid isn't Ganguly I'm quite miffed with Rahul Dravid for leaving out Laxman at the drop of the hat and not making slight adjustments in the batting order. I would say he should put his foot down and ask Tendulkar to bat at no.5 for a while if he is finding it a little hard to get some runs. Get Laxman to bat at no.3 and Rahul can bat at no.4 considering he is quite a key batsman for India to afford losing too early. If he has to shield himself and Tendulkar then be it. It is not about reputation but all about result. Tactically he has been poor before but he has done a fairly decent job in test cricket so far. India has been repeatedly winning tests overseas and I don't see a necessity to change anything. In fact Rahul's move of taking the new ball on day 2 after just couple of overs was quite a turning point. Kumble had taken couple of wickets previous night and the fast bowlers had not done a good job on day. Rahul had more reasons not to take the new ball but he went with his instinct. I don't believe captains make or mar a game but in the just concluded test match he did quite a good job with field placements. He wasn't over attacking or was too defensive. I think he was just about right.

[chanakya]

Dravid is a professional. He will not let his emotions rule him on the field. He will always lead by example. That is the sort of man he is. How often have we seen Dravid loose his cool? Not a lot of times have we. His concentration and will is unwavering. That is what makes him a true great. Ganguly was the other end of the spectrum. What the Indian team needs as a captain is of course a different topic altogether? I think Napolean might have troble leading the Indian team even if he batted like Sachin.

[gator]

y'all guys are misinterpreting tht "open show of emotions" is over-rated compared to "silent killer" kinda captaincy... i jus gave ganguly example to contrast from dravid... i gave imran and ranatunga examples too, in the same breath... they were not the chest-baring types... u people are failing to see the point... wat all the 3 had in common was instilll pride, self-confidence and fighting spirit in their teams in their respective way... if i was asked to rank the 3, i would prolly rank ganguly the least among them.... tht proves, i am not a great advocate of chest-baring types... but all the 3 are definitely better than the poosy-attitude proponent - Dravid... it is war out there and his men gave away the initiative in the first test of the series... instead of being positive, agressive and trying to intimidate his opponents and wrest back some respect, is openly thanking his stars, tht they got out of jail... now, if we win a test match, wat is he gonna say... say, we got lucky??? servile attitude this...