Lara V Tendulkar

[zen]

Few questions for you, lets see if you have the honesty to reply 1) Why did you remove Zimbabwe when the zimbabwe of Sachin and Lara's time were as good as the New Zealand of the 2000s with players of the like of Heath Streak and flower brothers? 2) Why are Lara's last years in any way significant to Sachin and what revelance does Sachin's performance in those years have anyhting to do with his entire career? Next you will talking about Sachin's career in the time Clinton was the President of the US 3) The very fact that Sachin went on to play and became better while Lara retired when his country needed his the most, makes Sachin a better player in my eyes. Lara didnt have the will/ability to carry on, Sachin did. Its as if a public servant retires after a few years of service and another carries on for 10 more years. Who served his country more? 4)Only in Rett's world is 19 not outs considered a weak point for a batsman when compared to 6 no outs pf another batsman. I thought being not out was to the credit of a batsman but what do I know, points should be taken off for being not out

Boy o Boy, i hope those questions were not asked seriously .... To me your post appears more like some wanna-be lawyer is trying to find fallacies in other guys argument. It doesn't matter what I write, you will need to find something to feel good about yourself :haha: Anyways, will just respond quickly 1. So now the great Tendulkar has to rely on the great Zim to compete with his peers! Zim and BD have been amongst the weakest test sides. And I usually remove them. You should be complaining if a stronger side was left out. The factors are constant for both .... 2. Once Lara got his mojo back, he played at a different level than Tendulkar. As seen in his last 50 tests over 5 years. The stats from the point where both started till Nov 2006 are also posted 3. Yeah .... keep dreaming 4. Well if two players have similar averages than we have to look at not outs to see how those averages were made. Unless ofc, you think not outs don't affect a person's average. In ODIs, Bevan has a better avg than Ten and we bring in the not outs If you had cricketing sense, you did not even need to write all that crap. Just look at point 1; 2.3K runs more in 32 innings during that period. Which is at an avg of 72 (without even factoring in the not outs) ..... AND after playing 226 inning against those teams, SRT was still way behind Lara in terms of runs. In fact, his avg dips to 51 vs (53)! LINK

Mat 	Inns 	NO 	Runs 	HS 	Ave 	100 	50 	0 		
137 	226 	21 	10465 	241* 	51.04 	33 	46 	13

So even in terms of 100s, there is not much difference .... Lara WINS hands down :winky: And as I said you are free to think SRT is the more effective test player :P Keep dreaming :icflove:

[Marut]

So why did Lara retire? Didnt the team need him? Has WI batting not declined? Why is a selfish decision being used to extrapolate to mean that if he had not retired' date=' he would have done as good as Sachin? There is no evidence to prove that. Very few batsmen have managed to continously perform as Sachin did and I dont believe there Lara could have continued in the same form[/quote'] Why did Gavaskar retire? Why did most of the former greats retire? All sportsmen call it a day and the retiring age has usually been around 35 for a top batsman, with a few exceptions. Once a batsman has played in excess of a certain number of tests ( let us say 75) his ability is established. There is no need for a batsman to play 200 tests to be compared against Tendulkar. Averages are always better parameters to rely upon than runs scored. Personally, I would rate batsmen on the performance of their best 5 years because their peak ability is established through this. See it is like this; would you prefer running 100m in 11 seconds all through your 20 year career, without ever running a sub 10.5, or clock 9.6s during your 5 yeat career? Peak performance is the ability of a sportsman to soar well above his peers during a specific period.

[zen]

To summarize: Excluding Zim and BD, after 226 innings (Lara retired) Runs: Lara: 11,558 Ten: 10,465 Adv: Lara Avg: Lara: rounded 53 (only 6 not outs) Ten rounded 51 (staggering 21 not outs but avg is still less) Adv: Lara 100s Lara: 32 Ten: 33 Almost the same! Lara wins hands down in tests ....

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[panther]

what was srt average before he got his 1st 100?

[Dravid_TheWall]

To summarize: Excluding Zim and BD, after 226 innings (Lara retired) Runs: Lara: 11,558 Ten: 10,465 Adv: Lara Avg: Lara: rounded 53 (only 6 not outs) Ten rounded 51 (staggering 21 not outs but avg is still less) Adv: Lara 100s Lara: 32 Ten: 33 Almost the same! Lara wins hands down in tests ....

And even those stats only tell half the story. Not to mention all his match winning innings and big scores, somthing tindu hasn't got near despite such a long career which his fans are proud off :hatsoff:

[zen]

And even those stats only tell half the story. Not to mention all his match winning innings and big scores' date=' somthing tindu hasn't got near despite such a long career which his fans are proud off :hatsoff:[/quote'] IIRC, even in his last series against Pak, he hit 2 100s, including a double .... so went on a high .... Interesting, he only needed a few runs to became first batsman to get to 12k but didn't bother with such stats

[Khalpat]

Since people have discussed so much about both batsman lets discuss something really very basic: As a Batsman, both are one of the best stroke players,lets look at the shots: Forward Defence: Both at par. Head still and foot reaches to pitch of the ball. Backfoot Defence: Lara is better. Sachin, seldom plays Backfoot Defence for him going to backfoot is only for stroke making. This makes Lara handle spinners well. Straight Drive: Sachin. No one in the world comes better. Cover Drive: Both equal. Timing, placement, foot movement both have perfect. Glance towards mid wicket: Sachin and Dravid are probably the greatest player for this stroke. Leg Glance towards Fine Leg: Lara used his wrist much better way than Sachin. Pull Shot: I havent seen any player other than Kapil Paaji to play Natraj shot better than LAra. Lara wins here, infact most of the LHB are better. Orthodox Sweep: Lara is better Pedal Sweep: Sachin plays much better. Hook Shot: I havent seen Sachin ever playing this shot. Have seen Lara once it was not as awesome as Amarnath but it was good so Lara better. Square Cut: Both are equal. Lara has slight edge here because even though both play this shot beautifully but something was there in Lara shot which looked good to eyes. Any shot Over Third man: Lara never played this shot. Sachin wins hands down. Lofted Drive: If its above bowlers head, Sachin is better but if the shot is towards long on or long off Lara better. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Type of Bowlers: Express Pace like Akhtar or Steyn: Sachin is better because of his low batlift, Lara has such a high batlift that its disadvantage to play anything on or around 95 MPH. Medium Pace (Swinging condition): Lara is better in handling. Medium Pace (Bouncy or SubContinent condition): Sachin is much better Off Spin: Even though its leg spin for Lara but he plays off spinners in general much better Leg Spin: Sachin reads googly much better than any other batsman. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Off Field: Discipline: Sachin wins Longevity: Sachin Consistence: Sachin Humbleness: Sachin Handling Pressure: Sachin Cricketing Brain: Sachin Better Role Model: Sachin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On his day Lara is the most destructive player and if I have to select a team for one match I will prefer Lara but overall Sachin has slight edge over Lara.

[Dravid_TheWall]

IIRC' date=' even in his last series against Pak, he hit 2 100s, including a double .... so went on a high .... Interesting, he only needed a few runs to became first batsman to get to 12k but didn't bother with such stats[/quote'] Yep. I remember also he finished ODI's at 299 matches. Someone asked him if he was bothered he hadn't hit 300 and he said he hasn't given it a thought.

[zen]

Also when the following pairs are in the opposition: Vaas-Murali, Amb-Walsh, Wasim-Waqar, Pollock-Donald, mcGrath-warne, morkel-styen, murali-mendis

	M	I	No	R	Avg
BCLara	36	68	3	3370	51.85
Sachin	39	66	3	2694	42.76

Avg: Lara 52 vs SRT 43

[zen]

Yep. I remember also he finished ODI's at 299 matches. Someone asked him if he was bothered he hadn't hit 300 and he said he hasn't given it a thought.

I guess, if Lara had been as record conscious as SRT, his record could have been even better!

[zen]

To summarize my picks: Tests: Lara ODIs: Sachin T20s: would probably flip a coin

[Sachinism]

[Dravid_TheWall]

To summarize my picks: Tests: Lara ODIs: Sachin T20s: would probably flip a coin

Agree :two_thumbs_up:

[Khalpat]

I guess' date=' if Lara had been as record conscious as SRT, his record could have been even better![/quote'] I didnt get this, if Lara was playing good, he should have continued as his country , his team needed him the most at that time. Why he left? History is the proof that to quit is the easiest thing to do. As far as records are concerned, playing for 718 minutes and playing more than 500 deliveries just to break the record of highest run and deny your own team to which you are captain a win is really a sign of person who do not play for records right? You play more you will automatically have more records, now Sachin can not go and say ki please dont add the run to my tally or dont add the centuries. HE is playing good and his team needs him, the moment you think he is not performing kick him out of the team. The kindof person he is, he will accept it but for god sake stop making stupid assumptions.

[Dravid_TheWall]

I guess' date=' if Lara had been as record conscious as SRT, his record could have been even better![/quote'] Yeah Lara was a free batsmen and not as record conscious. I remember he used to play some really awesome risky shots in tests but it was the way he was. He showcased his talent by doing things others couldn't. Lara was level with Gavasker on 34 test tons. Someone we know may have been eager to break that. But thankfully a lot of people who follow cricket don't just blindly buy into the whole longevity= more runs argument.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[zen]

I didnt get this, if Lara was playing good, he should have continued as his country , his team needed him the most at that time. Why he left? History is the proof that to quit is the easiest thing to do. As far as records are concerned, playing for 718 minutes and playing more than 500 deliveries just to break the record of highest run and deny your own team to which you are captain a win is really a sign of person who do not play for records right? You play more you will automatically have more records, now Sachin can not go and say ki please dont add the run to my tally or dont add the centuries. HE is playing good and his team needs him, the moment you think he is not performing kick him out of the team. The kindof person he is, he will accept it but for god sake stop making stupid assumptions.

Why Lara quit is not a topic that needs some kind of a discussion .... that's HIS personal decision What's important is that in whatever games he played, he did enough to be seen as the more effective test batsman, while SRT was the more effective ODI batsman /thread

[Khalpat]

Why Lara quit is not a topic that needs some kind of a discussion .... that's HIS personal decision What's important is that in whatever games he played, he did enough to be seen as the more effective test batsman, while SRT was the more effective ODI batsman /thread

So Lara quit is his personal decision and Sachin not taking retirement should not be considered as personal decision. Lara playing for 700 minutes and denying his team chance to win a test match is not playing for records but Sachin slowing for 5 overs in an ODI against Bangladesh is playing for records. Tum karo to Disco hum karein to mujra. Tumhara khoon khoon humara pani.