Azharuddin 163* vs SA at Kanpur

[vvvslaxman]

For all the grace and ease associated with Azza's batting I am not sure how many of you recollect the 1989 Test series in WI'es where he would make a mockery of batting when he would back away' date=' move around and throw his bat at every thing the WI'es pacers would bowl at him. Obviously he was not able to get it going and would use slogging as a ploy against the quicks but he came across so silly in that series that the skipper Vengsarkar remarked in the lines "it is pathetic to see specialist batsman back away like that and throw their bat and not take responsiblity" in obvious reference to Azza. It sure made for some ugly batting. Imagine someone one like SRT or VVS doing something similar when they could not get it going in the recent Eng. or Aus. Test series and the amount of criticism they would have drawn in this day and age of media madness.[/quote'] If i recall correctly Vengsarkar was the one who sucked big time in that series.

[vvvslaxman]

That series we fondly remember as Richie Richardson series..

[pensionplan]

If i recall correctly Vengsarkar was the one who sucked big time in that series.

Yes he did but he did not bat with a tailenders attitude and tried his best but came up short. I can live with that anyday. But then being the captain he had to answer the question reporters asked him about Azza's cavalier approach honestly. I agree with his assessment of Azza's inexplicable batting display in that series.

[Crookbond]

That series we fondly remember as Richie Richardson series..

And the only series in which Kapil Dev refused to bowl, after some shocking umpiring decisions.

[vvvslaxman]

Yes he did but he did not bat with a tailenders attitude and tried his best but came up short. I can live with that anyday. But then being the captain he had to answer the question reporters asked him about Azza's cavalier approach honestly. I agree with his assessment of Azza's inexplicable batting display in that series.

I think you are exaggerating too much. He was not really playing the way you are describing. He had problems only against short balls. He was not playing tailender in that series.

[pensionplan]

I think you are exaggerating too much. He was not really playing the way you are describing. He had problems only against short balls. He was not playing tailender in that series.

I am sorry you feel that way but to me there is no excuse for a specialist batsman to bat the way he did in that situation and I saw what I saw and read about it as well and it was confirmed later by Vengsarkar's comments post-match where he felt let down just as the fans watching.

[vvvslaxman]

I am sorry you feel that way but to me there is no excuse for a specialist batsman to bat the way he did in that situation and I saw what I saw and read about it as well and it was confirmed later by Vengsarkar's comments post-match where he felt let down just as the fans watching.

Tell me which batsman stood up against Ambrose/Walsh in that serie.s. Practically none. Everyone failed. you have not seen Laxman clueless in any series? Here is for your viewing pleasure [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwBVWa22jY4]Ajantha Mendis Vs VVS Laxman....*All 7 dismissals*...2008-2010.. - YouTube[/ame]

[pensionplan]

Tell me which batsman stood up against Ambrose/Walsh in that serie.s. Practically none. Everyone failed. you have not seen Laxman clueless in any series? Here is for your viewing pleasure Ajantha Mendis Vs VVS Laxman....*All 7 dismissals*...2008-2010.. - YouTube

I am not a huge VVS fan either persay though he is a much better batsman than Azza based on cricketing merits. So you can keep going and post some of the series where RD, SRT or whoever else failed too or have been bunnies of certain bowlers. I do not think a batsman's failure in a series or two has got nothing to do with the point I am making. You are exposing yourself more and more with these responses and desperate attempts by posting some videos. It is one thing to have a bad series and entirely different to throw in the towel even before walking out to bat with a premediated mindset to slog as a specialist batsman because you know you are not competent enough to last long which is what Azza's approach revealed and appaling in that series.

[pensionplan]

And by the way in that SL series VVS did average in the high 30's or close to 40 if I recollect it correctly despite being dismissed by Mendis so many times and came out as a higher scorer than RD, SRT and SG.

[vvvslaxman]

I am not a huge VVS fan either persay though he is a much better batsman than Azza based on cricketing merits. So you can keep going and post some of the series where RD, SRT or whoever else failed too or have been bunnies of certain bowlers. I do not think a batsman's failure in a series or two has got nothing to do with the point I am making. You are exposing yourself more and more with these responses and desperate attempts by posting some videos. It is one thing to have a bad series and entirely different to throw in the towel even before walking out to bat with a premediated mindset to slog as a specialist batsman because you know you are not competent enough to last long which is what Azza's approach revealed and appaling in that series.

Not desperate attempts.. your argument has no relevance to my point. My point is about his artistry. You are discounting this point based on one series where everyone failed. We all know his weakness. Short ball. Yes not pretty when he plays bouncers. That is why i kept mentioning when the ball doesn't rise above his knee.

[vvvslaxman]

And by the way in that SL series VVS did average in the high 30's or close to 40 if I recollect it correctly despite being dismissed by Mendis so many times and came out as a higher scorer than RD' date=' SRT and SG.[/quote'] But point is he was clueless against Mendis througout the series. He just had no idea which way ball was going. I won't discount his batting skills, style based on that series. He is still a stylish player to watch. But Azhar is in a different league. He could be so violent yet artistic.

[pensionplan]

But point is he was clueless against Mendis througout the series. He just had no idea which way ball was going. I won't discount his batting skills' date=' style based on that series. He is still a stylish player to watch. [/quote']Being clueless if I can call it that because he averaged 40+ in the series where Mendis got a lot of wickets is one thing but bat with the attitude of a tailender(and looked ugly in the process as opposed to being stylish) because one cannot survive against genuine pace as Azza did in that 1989 WI series is entirely another. That is the reason why I brought up that series though he had other bad series as well which can happen to best of players and that is to be expected. In your words for balls not rising over the knees. Yes he is in a league of his own in that sense. Apart from that and without any qualifiers attached VVS the real one is the better looking batsman in terms of artistry and grace.

[vvvslaxman]

Being clueless if I can call it that because he averaged 40+ in the series where Mendis got a lot of wickets is one thing but bat with the attitude of a tailender(and looked ugly in the process as opposed to being stylish) because one cannot survive against genuine pace as Azza did in that 1989 WI series is entirely another. That is the reason why I brought up that series though he had other bad series as well which can happen to best of players and that is to be expected. In your words for balls not rising over the knees. Yes he is in a league of his own in that sense. Apart from that and without any qualifiers attached VVS the real one is the better looking batsman in terms of artistry and grace.

You need to add some qualifier to Laxman as well.. when the ball is not full and swinging. That is why his average didn't touch 50 in an era where lot of players average 50 despite playing in subcontinent. He can look very awkward against such balls. Laxman's flicked straight drive, on drive, cover drive might resemble Azhar. that's about it.. Even with those shots his problem is he cannot adjust the angle as well as Azhar coud do. He would hit all day to the same fielder sometime resulting in numerous dot balls. Azhar could manipulate field set by controlling wrist movement. Very rarely you would see dot balls in Azhar's innings

[pensionplan]

You need to add some qualifier to Laxman as well.. when the ball is not full and swinging. That is why his average didn't touch 50 in an era where lot of players average 50 despite playing in subcontinent. He can look very awkward against such balls.

Even in swinging English conditions VVS averages 30+ despite the poor series he has had recently with a couple of decent 50's where he did look good. In the earlier series in England where he never got a chance to bat higher than No.6 to rake up big scores he did have a decent number of 35+ scores which suggests it is just a myth he somehow is not good in full swinging conditions. A closer look at his overall innings in England suggests otherwise. Besides between VVS and Azza when one looks at their performances in Eng, SA, Aus, WI, NZ and does a career graph VVS comes out easily on top while looking more stylish and more assured. So while his 46 career average incudes the initial toying with his batting spot(1996-2000) since 2000 when one looks at VVS's numbers once he got a permanant spot in the middle order he is a close to a 50 average batsman for 12 years and over 100 Test matches.

Laxman's flicked straight drive, on drive, cover drive might resemble Azhar. that's about it.. Even with those shots his problem is he cannot adjust the angle as well as Azhar coud do. He would hit all day to the same fielder sometime resulting in numerous dot balls. Azhar could manipulate field set by controlling wrist movement. Very rarely you would see dot balls in Azhar's innings

Again that is very subjective. To me VVS does play the flick, drives and cuts as good as Azza or even better him with impossible angles against any type of an attack(as opposed to come out a cropper versus the short ball as Azza did for most part in his career)and has great wrist work. Also I do not know your obsession with dotballs but many a time it could have been the team situation that demanded time over runs but based on what I seen VVS does make batting look ridiculously easy and a great boundary hitter and can up the ante as he did when he won the Mohali Test versus the Aussies in a hurry couple of years back as an example. All said and done between the two VVS clearly is the superior batsman and aesthetically better as well for me.

[vvvslaxman]

Again that is very subjective. To me VVS does play the flick, drives and cuts as good as Azza or even better him with impossible angles against any type of an attack(as opposed to come out a cropper versus the short ball as Azza did for most part in his career)and has great wrist work. Also I do not know your obsession with dotballs but many a time it could have been the team situation that demanded time over runs but based on what I seen VVS does make batting look ridiculously easy and a great boundary hitter and can up the ante as he did when he won the Mohali Test versus the Aussies in a hurry couple of years back as an example. All said and done between the two VVS clearly is the superior batsman and aesthetically better as well for me.

That is why i said we can disagree in a huge way EOD.

[Khalpat]

The best ODI inning by Azhar, he brought India from a defeating position to win: He had this record for very long time of fastest century by any Indian in 64 balls. Evan Chatfield will never forget the phainty, 4 six on his deliveries: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64335.html To be frank batting wise and bowling wise too this was the worst ODI team ever fielded by Indian team.

[Khalpat]

To all those who are bringing 90's of India belong to a particular batsman in this thread just for your knowledge in the actual 90's i.e. from 1st Jan 1990 and 31 Dec 1999 the best batsman of India had average of 58 and second best batsman ie Azhar had an average of 44 in Test cricket. Difference of 14 I guess this statistics should be sufficient to all who think that its exaggeration when we say 90's was the decade of a particular Indian Batsman. Coincidentally his stats was better than any batsman of the world. Be it Lara or Waugh or Inzi.

[Ultimate_Game]

To all those who are bringing 90's of India belong to a particular batsman in this thread just for your knowledge in the actual 90's i.e. from 1st Jan 1990 and 31 Dec 1999 the best batsman of India had average of 58 and second best batsman ie Azhar had an average of 44 in Test cricket. Difference of 14 I guess this statistics should be sufficient to all who think that its exaggeration when we say 90's was the decade of a particular Indian Batsman. Coincidentally his stats was better than any batsman of the world. Be it Lara or Waugh or Inzi.

I think everyone agrees Tendulkar was the best Indian batsman in 90s and team's fortunes generally used to depend on him.

[master22]

To all those who are bringing 90's of India belong to a particular batsman in this thread just for your knowledge in the actual 90's i.e. from 1st Jan 1990 and 31 Dec 1999 the best batsman of India had average of 58 and second best batsman ie Azhar had an average of 44 in Test cricket. Difference of 14 I guess this statistics should be sufficient to all who think that its exaggeration when we say 90's was the decade of a particular Indian Batsman. Coincidentally his stats was better than any batsman of the world. Be it Lara or Waugh or Inzi.

Not true.Dravid and even Ganguly averaged 50 in the 90's.

[The Outsider]

To all those who are bringing 90's of India belong to a particular batsman in this thread just for your knowledge in the actual 90's i.e. from 1st Jan 1990 and 31 Dec 1999 the best batsman of India had average of 58 and second best batsman ie Azhar had an average of 44 in Test cricket. Difference of 14 I guess this statistics should be sufficient to all who think that its exaggeration when we say 90's was the decade of a particular Indian Batsman. Coincidentally his stats was better than any batsman of the world. Be it Lara or Waugh or Inzi.