asterix Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 Well I am from Kolkata. And I have been to Gujarat as well quite a few times in last 10 years and development has been unprecedented. Maybe there is still hype, but for me the administration was good as I have seen. So, I don't think the comparison holds. And its not just about votes. I suggest you talk to the common man there. That said I think making Modi a PM candidate is a huge mistake. I'm not discounting Gujarat's Developement Model.. I'm aghast that why NaMo will go for Ram Mandir issue when the developement agenda is already on the platter... Is it stupidity or are their any chinks in the Gujarat Developement model which has allowed Ram Mandir agenda to supercede it?
Crookbond Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 PTL - Tell me one critic/critical thought of Narendra Modi you find good or do you think that he's perfect? Any name/incident thrown is usually met with a red herring.
FischerTal Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 There's been so many un-constitutional things going on.. Why hide behind this unconstitutional issue to not allow selection a Lokayukta for so many years? Doeas NaMo has something to hide in his 'developed World'? Why fear? Bring on whichever Lokayukta Kangress puts in... If state government should have no role in appointment of Lokayukta, what was pyari Miss Beniwal doing since 2009? Only in 2011 in the run up to Gujarat Assembly election did she appoint Mehta..... if you cant connect the dots.. i feel sorry for you :((
FischerTal Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 PTL - Tell me one critic/critical thought of Narendra Modi you find good or do you think that he's perfect? Any name/incident thrown is usually met with a red herring. i think he hasnt developed education sector in Gujarat at all. Thats a criticism I have of him since day one
asterix Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 If state government should have no role in appointment of Lokayukta' date=' what was pyari Miss Beniwal doing since 2009? Only in 2011 in the run up to Gujarat Assembly election did she appoint Mehta..... if you cant connect the dots.. i feel sorry for you :(([/quote'] You can't blame Kangress. They'll do everything to get you...No better than NaMo knows that. So what's the solution to counter that? Rake Ram Mandir issue?
Crookbond Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 Source: http://www.kartikeyatanna.com/index.php/2013/01/the-infirmities-in-sc-judgment-on-gujarat-lokayukta/ The infirmities in SC judgment on Gujarat Lokayukta This article is from a person who writes nothing but positive about Modi and a known Congress basher. According to your prior arguments, his opinions should be invalidated.
ravishingravi Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 I'm not discounting Gujarat's Developement Model.. I'm aghast that why NaMo will go for Ram Mandir issue when the developement agenda is already on the platter... Is it stupidity or are their any chinks in the Gujarat Developement model which has allowed Ram Mandir agenda to supercede it? Oh! completely agree there. I don't think Modi directly will talk Ram Mandir issue although it is a right wing issue. You will meet a lot of urban BJP supporters who voted against BJP in 2004 because they failed to deliver on Ram Mandir. So, they will strike a balance here. Swamy is like Digvijay of the right. He is given a free hand to blabber his mouth and get the right wingers on board. Lets accept it, they are important vote base for BJP. Meanwhile, Modi will be toeing the line, talking about Congress performance and development. It is politics. I have severe doubts on Modi's hindu credentials too. I think he is an atheist at heart. I could be wrong
FischerTal Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 You can't blame Kangress. They'll do everything to get you...No better than NaMo knows that. So what's the solution to counter that? Rake Ram Mandir issue? No, its about appealing to different constituencies. Naturally, you are not going to rake it up if you address a youth conference.
Crookbond Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 i think he hasnt developed education sector in Gujarat at all. Thats a criticism I have of him since day one But, you've got to not be oblivious to the fact there "may be" other things which are painted in rosy light. EVERY critique is generally encountered - "congress goon", "modi baiter" etc. Unfortunately, that is just a red herring - since the crux of the opinion is on the matter discussed regardless of who says it. Sure - I get your point that were are haters but at the same time there are lovers as well. You can't dismiss haters and accept the lovers at the same time.
FischerTal Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 This article is from a person who writes nothing but positive about Modi and a known Congress basher. According to your prior arguments' date= his opinions should be invalidated. i never said invalidated, i said that the background of a person is important in understanding his/her arguments.
asterix Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 Oh! completely agree there. I don't think Modi directly will talk Ram Mandir issue although it is a right wing issue. You will meet a lot of urban BJP supporters who voted against BJP in 2004 because they failed to deliver on Ram Mandir. So, they will strike a balance here. Swamy is like Digvijay of the right. He is given a free hand to blabber his mouth and get the right wingers on board. Lets accept it, they are important vote base for BJP. Meanwhile, Modi will be toeing the line, talking about Congress performance and development. It is politics. I have severe doubts on Modi's hindu credentials too. I think he is an atheist at heart. I could be wrong Hmmm.. Pseudo-Ram Mandirists? Just like PSecs who don't have the capabilities to actually help the Minorities, PRams are exactly like those who play with the emotions to win votes knowing very well can't do diddly on Ram Mandir issue even after making a Govt.
FischerTal Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 But' date=' you've got to not be oblivious to the fact there "may be" other things which are painted in rosy light. EVERY critique is generally encountered - "congress goon", "modi baiter" etc.Unfortunately, that is just a red herring - since the crux of the opinion is on the matter discussed regardless of who says it. Sure - I get your point that were are haters but at the same time there are lovers as well. [b']You can't dismiss haters and accept the lovers at the same time. Fine, i take your point... i'll take back the argument against Santosh Hegde... but it is my personal belief that the Lokayukta appointment was politically motivated
Sachin=GOD Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 Fine' date=' i take your point... i'll take back the argument against Santosh Hegde... [b']but it is my personal belief that the Lokayukta appointment was politically motivated of course it was. Nobody will deny that. But the fact is that the case was about whether the appointment was constitutional or not and the Supreme Court has upheld the appointment.
Crookbond Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 i never said invalidated' date=' i said that the background of a person is important in understanding his/her arguments.[/quote'] Yes but increases the skepticism level meter and encourages you to dig deeper. My point is just simple - if any person's background increases the curiosity level then we should come back with an argument on the subject matter itself rather than calling foul based on his background. It eliminated the need of calling out names. The reason why this is important is that it once such names are called - the discussion is effectively derailed. If you don't believe me, just scroll up few posts and check it out. Just in case, this works both ways - critiques as well as praises.
ravishingravi Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 Hmmm.. Pseudo-Ram Mandirists? Just like PSecs who don't have the capabilities to actually help the Minorities' date=' PRams are exactly like those who play with the emotions to win votes knowing very well can't do diddly on Ram Mandir issue even after making a Govt.[/quote'] The thing is psecularist can and are doing actual damage to the discourse. The Ram Mandir is not happening. Its gone for sure. So, now the only hope is to kindle the imagination of hindu mass with some possibility. But it is not happening. It might not occupy even 10 % of BJP agenda. But knowing media, that 10% will occupy 99% of their time.
FischerTal Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 of course it was. Nobody will deny that. But the fact is that the case was about whether the appointment was constitutional or not and the Supreme Court has upheld the appointment. well then shoudnt the article i posted be argued on its merits and not on whether the author is a Modi supporter? :winky:
Crookbond Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 Fine' date=' i take your point... i'll take back the argument against Santosh Hegde... [b']but it is my personal belief that the Lokayukta appointment was politically motivated And mind you this is a fine argument and I doubt most people would deny it - it will just help keep the discussion sane. Also, please do post the pro-articles as well because there's a chance that I may be biased as well. I like it that all the pro and con articles are posted so that I can evaluate both of those for myself and take a stand.
FischerTal Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 Yes but increases the skepticism level meter and encourages you to dig deeper. My point is just simple - if any person's background increases the curiosity level then we should come back with an argument on the subject matter itself rather than calling foul based on his background. It eliminated the need of calling out names. The reason why this is important is that it once such names are called - the discussion is effectively derailed. If you don't believe me' date=' just scroll up few posts and check it out. Just in case, this works both ways - critiques as well as praises.[/quote'] fair point, but sometimes one gets the feeling that it doesnt work both ways in the public sphere. This is where the media's role comes in. Instead of being the fourth pillar of democracy, it becomes a total sham.
Sachin=GOD Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 well then shoudnt the article i posted be argued on its merits and not on whether the author is a Modi supporter? :winky: if the author is a Modi supporter then there is a good chance that the article is biased in his favor so I would like some neutral perspective
FischerTal Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 if the author is a Modi supporter then there is a good chance that the article is biased in his favor so I would like some neutral perspective but then with that mindset, i can also give the articles of known Modi baiters no credency as well. :winky:
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