Clarke Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 And I hope you get my point that the tax benefit did not even receive 1% of the same criticism/discussion etc. that the FSB did. There are other such examples too and it reflects in our society. This is NOT ABOUT FSB or tax benefits - this is about mentality (which is a horizontal) and cuts through across various domains including but not limited to politics. Because its a tax benefit, not a bloody dole! Might as well assume 100% tax in theory on everything and then whine about 'lost' revenue while we're at it. Try putting up a better example, for instance LPG subsidy, one that is actually a handout.
bulbul Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 ^ Arguing with 'selective nitpickers' is bit difficult :winky:
gaurav92 Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 A dull speech today by Modi. Not his best. But the crowd he pulls is simply fantastic. It shows, his speech touches many hearts :hatsoff:
bulbul Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 ^ It's good speech , he spoke more about youth/IT , thats what matters in Bangalore.
gaurav92 Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 Yes he spoke about the necessary things, but somehow, I didn't find it as good as he did on Aug 15 or the one in Delhi. It was good nonetheless, but he has given some fabulous speeches in the past. :nice:
bulbul Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 Actually speaking, this rally was not necessary and there is no context to it till general election. Still 3 lakh people on a day when rain is predicted [saturday was a rainy day here] :hatsoff:
Crookbond Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 Because its a tax benefit' date= not a bloody dole! Might as well assume 100% tax in theory on everything and then whine about 'lost' revenue while we're at it. Try putting up a better example, for instance LPG subsidy, one that is actually a handout. The amount is the same in both cases - food as well as gold but for gold it is a "benefit" and for food it is a "dole". It's way you want to look at it - I would say FSB is also a tax benefit on food. It's OK if you find that example unfit because my point was beyond THAT example. For the latter bolded part, no point in my conversation did I suggest you are whining or b!tching or crying. Why not extend the courtesy? It's just a normal discussion - if I'm wrong my perspective gets changed and vice versa. Not the first time I have been wrong in life and not the last time either. I am just trying to understand and alternative point of view. Already, the leader of the chaddi brigade is trying to make a raaita of a discussion which clearly matters to you/dear to your heart. Why give the chaddis more fodder to feed on? Lets keep it civil and respectful.
Clarke Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 They are job creators so deserve the benefits :dontmentionit: God forbid, the government gives the poor moochers money to buy food. To be fair, what will the grains by themselves achieve ? We need to provide vegetable security act with a special provision for onions, a dairy security act with milk/butter/cheese and to top it off a secular food act that provides meat to minorities. I'd like to borrow the words from the queen to support my proposed bills "There are people who ask whether we have the means to implement this scheme. I would like to say that we have to figure out the means. The question is not whether we can do it or not. We have to do it." Coming soon: The fuel security act. Why make the poor pay for kerosene/petrol/gas when those rich fekers fly around in airplanes.
ganeshran Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 To be fair, what will the grains by themselves achieve ? We need to provide vegetable security act with a special provision for onions, a dairy security act with milk/butter/cheese and to top it off a secular food act that provides meat to minorities. I'd like to borrow the words from the queen to support my proposed bills "There are people who ask whether we have the means to implement this scheme. I would like to say that we have to figure out the means. The question is not whether we can do it or not. We have to do it." no no no. Why implement any welfare act at all? Let the moochers starve to death. I mean, it must have been their fault their ancestors didn't work hard enough and are not rich enough to afford a full meal every day. Shame on the moochers to be greedy enough to be looking for handouts to feed their family.
Number Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 http://in.news.yahoo.com/take-back-lata-mangeshkar%E2%80%99s-bharat-ratna--congress-103046860.html Mumbai Congress chief says awards must be taken away from anyone who praises BJP’s Narendra Modi. :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: Hope Sachin and Mr. Rao will just say no comments.
Clarke Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 The amount is the same in both cases - food as well as gold but for gold it is a "benefit" and for food it is a "dole". It's way you want to look at it - I would say FSB is also a tax benefit on food. It's OK if you find that example unfit because my point was beyond THAT example. For the latter bolded part, no point in my conversation did I suggest you are whining or b!tching or crying. Why not extend the courtesy? It's just a normal discussion - if I'm wrong my perspective gets changed and vice versa. Not the first time I have been wrong in life and not the last time either. I am just trying to understand and alternative point of view. Already, the leader of the chaddi brigade is trying to make a raaita of a discussion which clearly matters to you/dear to your heart. Why give the chaddis more fodder to feed on? Lets keep it civil and respectful. I simply cannot stand this foregone revenue nonsense, especially when its used as an excuse for gutter vote bank politics like the FSB. If you feel the middle class isn't contributing enough to the exchequer, share your points to suggest the same. Lets not use voodoo math to demonize them especially when they a vast majority feel they're getting a raw deal from their govt.
Clarke Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 no no no. Why implement any welfare act at all? Let the moochers starve to death. I mean, it must have been their fault their ancestors didn't work hard enough and are not rich enough to afford a full meal every day. Shame on the moochers to be greedy enough to be looking for handouts to feed their family. Serious question: you're saying the govt should feed 800 million people ? You sure believe in capitalism and free markets ? No capitalist nation does anything like that. We're talking food here and 800 million people, not some red herrings please. Mannu uncle, the so called champion of reforms, wouldn't give away what's left in the food storage in 2010 as an effin one time act, calling it impractical. Here we are in election year and look how the secular bandwagon has changed direction.
Crookbond Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 I simply cannot stand this foregone revenue nonsense' date=' [b']especially when its used as an excuse for gutter vote bank politics like the FSB. If you feel the middle class isn't contributing enough to the exchequer, share your points to suggest the same. Lets not use voodoo math to demonize them especially when they a vast majority feel they're getting a raw deal from their govt. I think we have discussed the math of it this till no end and it has been conclusively proven that the FSB is not a monetary burden but all existing schemes rolled into one. You can go and check all the references out there. Yes - it is vote bank politics but so is various other subsidies. My point is that other subsidies do not get their proportionate ridicule. I feel this is a characteristic of a indifferent and insensitive society and not one of a good one.
ganeshran Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 Serious question: you're saying the govt should feed 800 million people ? You sure believe in capitalism and free markets ? No capitalist nation does anything like that. We're talking food here and 800 million people, not some red herrings please. Mannu uncle, the so called champion of reforms, wouldn't give away what's left in the food storage in 2010 as an effin one time act, calling it impractical. Here we are in election year and look how the secular bandwagon has changed direction. The government is provided a fixed amount of subsidized foodgrains to people who cannot afford it. The outlay of the bill is fixed. Do you know how much a kg of rice costs in India today? 25 bucks a kg for the lowest possible quality. 30 bucks for a litre of milk. 60+ for onions. close to 100 bucks a kg for toor ki daal, Beans, carrots are a pipe dream for poor people. What do you suggest they do? Just starve to death? A person who makes less than 5000 a month cannot afford to feed a family of 4 even a carb rich 1500 calorie diet, let alone a balanced one with actual vegetables and proteins. And I am not even talking about unemployed people, just the ones working menial jobs and still struggling to make things meet. Most nations which can afford it provide food assistance to their citizens. Yes the developed nations actually provide more money so poor people can live in some semblance of decent living. We cannot, so we are giving them the most basic of necessities of life - food. The only way to combat poverty is by a two pronged approach - building industry and developing economy for future trickle down growth and giving immediate assistance for the most basic necessities of life. Leaving out either one is impractical and dangerous. Because people starving today cannot wait a decade for the trickle down benefits to reach them
Clarke Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 The government is provided a fixed amount of subsidized foodgrains to people who cannot afford it. The outlay of the bill is fixed. Do you know how much a kg of rice costs in India today? 25 bucks a kg for the lowest possible quality. 30 bucks for a litre of milk. 60+ for onions. close to 100 bucks a kg for toor ki daal, Beans, carrots are a pipe dream for poor people. What do you suggest they do? Just starve to death? What I suggest to them ? Family planning maybe ? Maine bola tha 5 bachche paalne ko ? Ajeeb baat hai, when we talk among coworkers about inflation, caring for 2 children sounds tough. NREGA sounded fine in theory, one time loan waiver for farmers was bearable as well, but now THIS piece of turd ? When exactly does one pause and ponder over what went wrong before writing another blank cheque ? A person who makes less than 5000 a month cannot afford to feed a family of 4 even a carb rich 1500 calorie diet, let alone a balanced one with actual vegetables and proteins. And I am not even talking about unemployed people, just the ones working menial jobs and still struggling to make things meet. Most nations which can afford it provide food assistance to their citizens. Yes the developed nations actually provide more money so poor people can live in some semblance of decent living. We cannot, so we are giving them the most basic of necessities of life - food. The only way to combat porverty is by a two pronged approach - building industry and developing economy for future trickle down growth and giving immediate assistance for the most basic living necessities of life. Leaving out either one is impractical and dangerous. Because people starving today cannot wait a decade for the trickle down benefits to reach them No nation gives out 20+ % of its budget as one handout, in particular something as fundamental as food to two thirds of its population. I've heard of all red herrings before like healthcare/SS etc, they don't compare. Baat rahi building industry ki, good luck supporting that with whatever's left in your budget with our already amazing infra and secular governance. Berkshire Hathaway, POSCO, Arcelor Mittal & Walmart should have given enough signals by now. Who cares though, poori roti khaenge, 100 din kaam karenge aur ***** hilaenge.
Clarke Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 I think we have discussed the math of it this till no end and it has been conclusively proven that the FSB is not a monetary burden but all existing schemes rolled into one. You can go and check all the references out there. Yes - it is vote bank politics but so is various other subsidies. My point is that other subsidies do not get their proportionate ridicule. I feel this is a characteristic of a indifferent and insensitive society and not one of a good one. Can you answer a single straight question: Which single handout (and not a tax break) is worth $22 billion ? We're talking proportion here, aren't we ? Rahi baat monetary burden ki, lets wait for the rollout. You're too keen to toe the govt's line and I'm ready to call the bluff on that. I thought the CACP pissed all over the govt's estimates but lets wait and see.
ganeshran Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 What I suggest to them ? Family planning maybe ? Maine bola tha 5 bachche paalne ko ? Ajeeb baat hai, when we talk among coworkers about inflation, caring for 2 children sounds tough. 5 bacche? What is this - 1980s? Even poor people cannot afford to have that many kids now. You as an individual might shrug your shoulders and be in favor of letting them die. The government unfortunately cannot. Either it is the congress or BJP, hunger and PDS reform are not problems that can be solved later, time is now. If the chaddi brigade comes to power in 2014, they will inherit all these problems as well. Feku can then thump his chest and give speeches but people cannot eat hollow rhetoric. No nation gives out 20+ % of its budget as one handout, in particular something as fundamental as food to two thirds of its population. I've heard of all red herrings before like healthcare/SS etc, they don't compare. Baat rahi building industry ki, good luck supporting that with whatever's left in your budget with our already amazing infra and secular governance. Berkshire Hathaway, POSCO, Arcelor Mittal & Walmart should have given enough signals by now. Who cares though, poori roti khaenge, 100 din kaam karenge aur ***** hilaenge. The 20% of the budget is a gross exaggeration put out by Bhalla. The estimate of 20 bn dollars which is not cheap but we are talking about the most basic of human needs here. If you have any other solutions other than letting people die, please feel free to share.
Clarke Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 5 bacche? What is this - 1980s? Even poor people cannot afford to have that many kids now. You as an individual might shrug your shoulders and be in favor of letting them die. Political speech :giggle: Here's mine: I'm in favor of fiscal responsibility & economic growth while you're towing the secular line. We can't provide food handouts for 800 million, its unrealistic and impractical and will keep us third world level for a long time. The 20% of the budget is a gross exaggeration put out by Bhalla. The estimate of 20 bn dollars which is not cheap but we are talking about the most basic of human needs here. If you have any other solutions other than letting people die, please feel free to share. Ok, let's just wait out on the numbers. If you have something better than political speeches inspired from communism, please feel free to share :/ I would understand if it was at most 20% of the population, maybe 25% in some calamities but two thirds sounds insane and should not be attempted.
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