straighttalk Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 perhaps u had taken a very poor example as your dream country .. in china top 1% control 70% of the wealth , and one tenth of top 1% control 51% of the wealth .. so i guess communism or maoism or watever they follow in china is also failed :cantstop: you can take post war south korea or japan as an example for hardwork and people are genuinely patriotic towards the country and both the countries are democracy :whack: again 1% in usa control 90% of wealth..that is how it goes... but check the level of corruption. general infrastructure in china, the height of science and technology research there, compare cities like beijing sanghai etc to our best city mumbai... and you can see the difference between day and night.... and that has been achieved by the people and the communist party..even if some of their means might be questionable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Can't believe how much we Indians are buying into this documentary. Yes Chinese powers that be do go to extreme measures to win laurels but is it the only reason? Or are we being critical of China because it allows us an excuse to be a lazy ar$e state? There is this Chinese swimmer who broke the record of Grant Hackett (Australia) in 1500 m freestyle. Grant, for those who may not know, was unbeaten for an entire decade and in 2000/04 when he would show up competitors would practically simply leave, and spectators yawn at the obvious result. Well this Chinese lad went to Australia to train from the best. Doesnt understand English, communicates with the Aussie coach in sign and then sinks Hackett record first in world championship and then at Olympics. Let us not miss forest for trees here. Chinese have been phenomenal in achieving results. And as someone who has practically watched ALL Olympics since Seoul 88, I hope to listen to Opening ceremony where the commentator mention something other than - India, the 2nd largest country in the world, has won 10 golds of which 8 has come in 1 single event (hockey). They would be looking to improve their record here. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 participation matters is said to young kids to keep their morale high...tell than to usain bolt..and you will understand why it is so important to prepare well for Olympics... why waste money in sending so many athletes to Olympics..if the objective is not to win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 ^ because we need to focus on other priorities - feed the poor. Why do you want to lose sleep over how the 2nd most populous country has 0 medal count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 ^ because we need to focus on other priorities - feed the poor. Why do you want to lose sleep over how the 2nd most populous country has 0 medal count? really a country as large as india cannot keep aside 100 million dollar for olympics every year...there is so much corruption, bribes, black money, ipl extravaganza, even now they kept 50 million for 80 odd athletes..where is the performance..money is not the issue here...it is the discipline and dedication of the athletes....have u seen indian athletes many are overweight, dont maintain a semblance of fitness (look at indian cricketers compared to other countries (not all))...but then again going by this thread..most people consider training hard as torture..so i cant really blame them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 ^ because we need to focus on other priorities - feed the poor. Why do you want to lose sleep over how the 2nd most populous country has 0 medal count? so jamaica is richer than india...india cant train 80 athletes..giving them the best facilities...what do you need to be a sprinter ..other than good food, a nice running track, a gym, and good shoes....maybe a coach..this is too expensive..most people dont even need sponsorship for this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 ]again 1% in usa control 90% of wealth..that is how it goes... but check the level of corruption. general infrastructure in china, the height of science and technology research there, compare cities like beijing sanghai etc to our best city mumbai... and you can see the difference between day and night.... and that has been achieved by the people and the communist party..even if some of their means might be questionable i bet you are wrong :winky: i checked the statistics for both china and USA, and i posted it after checking the stats top 1% in US controls 34.6% , top 10% in US controls 69.8% of wealth :--D ( still bad though ) but US has clear taxations unlike china where big people can control more than what they have ( even in south korea , government pardons members from big conglomerates) india is not china , if government throw you out of your home given 2 days notice for building a road , you might prefer india or us over china.. china is run by 1% elites much like the saudi is run by their kings as their personal property.. do you have any idea about commoms life in china ?? i never visited china but my ex-roommate spent some decent time in china so knew a bit abt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 so jamaica is richer than india...india cant train 80 athletes..giving them the best facilities...what do you need to be a sprinter ..other than good food' date=' a nice running track, a gym, and good shoes....maybe a coach..this is too expensive..most people dont even need sponsorship for this...[/quote'] our system is corrupt and we cant introduce new sports forcefully unlike china or north korea.. i bet if you open a cricket acadamy , kids will flood to train but if you open a gymnastic school nobody will show their face :giggle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 our system is corrupt and we cant introduce new sports forcefully unlike china or north korea.. i bet if you open a cricket acadamy , kids will flood to train but if you open a gymnastic school nobody will show their face :giggle: again you are wrong....first there arent too many gymnastics school in india..and you need not have 1000s of interested kids but a handful of dedicated enthusiasts to make champions...if you are talking about monetary aspects of different sports..then it is a completely different topic and ya cricket in india is more popular.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 again you are wrong....first there arent too many gymnastics school in india..and you need not have 1000s of interested kids but a handful of dedicated enthusiasts to make champions...if you are talking about monetary aspects of different sports..then it is a completely different topic and ya cricket in india is more popular.. i am not sure how i am wrong , i bet if you open a gymnastic school in india you wont get dedicated enthusiasts to make champions .. what is the point of competing in some sport which none cares to participate for the sake of producing Olympians ?? :dontknow: and moreover we never bother abt most of the sports that are included in the olympics maybe we shld ask the olympic comitte to include the games that we are good at it like chess , gilli , 7 stones etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 i am not sure how i am wrong , i bet if you open a gymnastic school in india you wont get dedicated enthusiasts to make champions .. what is the point of competing in some sport which none cares to participate for the sake of producing Olympians ?? :dontknow: and moreover we never bother abt most of the sports that are included in the olympics maybe we shld ask the olympic comitte to include the games that we are good at it like chess , gilli , 7 stones etc.. i guess this post kind of sums up why you and others are so shocked by the training of the chineese..and that is the reason we as a nation will never produce athletes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triam Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 i guess this post kind of sums up why you and others are so shocked by the training of the chineese..and that is the reason we as a nation will never produce athletes... I dont think you even try to understand why people object to the chinese training It is forced No freedom of choice It is brutal, has long term effects Have you trained for any sport? I have, I have represented India at the junior level, it takes humongous amount of work, I did it because I enjoyed that particular sport. IF some expert chose a different sport for me based on my physical attributes and forced me to train in it without a choice, I would have hated every living minute of it. If people want to feel proud about their countries medal tally without actually being forced to be part of it but force someone else to go through that pain, great, that is no longer a democracy or a free society, just accept that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 If people want to feel proud about their countries medal tally without actually being forced to be part of it but force someone else to go through that pain' date=' great, that is no longer a democracy or a free society, just accept that fact.[/quote'] Triam, It is not a either-or situation, is it now? I am willing to lean towards the fact that Indians are having a shot at Chinese mostly to hide our own inefficiencies as a sporting nation. We are happy to be a bunch of lazy ar$e lards who prefer the whole - Ah we treat our kids well, never mind the fact that most of our kids go un-nourished, un-educated and all the wrong uns in their life. What I find interesting, in this Olympiad and the previous one at Beijing, is how many countries (including Western countries) are now returning, or seriously contemplating, the role of Government run agencies in sporting success. East European countries have taken a big dive and they are looking into this. So is Germany who is trying to mimic East European methodology. Brits have already gained seriously from this, their success has been nothing sort of phenomenal, so have the French. Point being, countries are looking of creating a system with heavy emphasis on dedicated Olympic success. Somehow we seem to be the only bunch trying to take a stab at others, mostly by sitting on our bottoms. xxx PS: Good to know you have a sporting pedigree :hatsoff: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triam Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Lurker, Have no problem with government involvement in growing sports, maybe a country like India needs it as opposed to an Aus or US. The point I completely object to is looking at the Chinese model as something that is somehow laudable and should be replicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Lurker, Have no problem with government involvement in growing sports, maybe a country like India needs it as opposed to an Aus or US. The point I completely object to is looking at the Chinese model as something that is somehow laudable and should be replicated. That is a creation/invention of many an Indians, afraid to say. Do you really think that Chinese model aka - get kids early, make them perform every tricks, cut them off from family/friends - results in Gold Medals? If that was the case surely the Dictatorial regimes of Middle East and Africa would be bringing as many medals too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Triam, What I find interesting, in this Olympiad and the previous one at Beijing, is how many countries (including Western countries) are now returning, or seriously contemplating, the role of Government run agencies in sporting success. East European countries have taken a big dive and they are looking into this. So is Germany who is trying to mimic East European methodology. Brits have already gained seriously from this, their success has been nothing sort of phenomenal, so have the French. Point being, countries are looking of creating a system with heavy emphasis on dedicated Olympic success. Somehow we seem to be the only bunch trying to take a stab at others, mostly by sitting on our bottoms. xxx PS: Good to know you have a sporting pedigree :hatsoff: Any links supporting other countries following the chinese model for success in this olympics? It is still run by sponsors helping high profile athletes in facilities that are run by Govt/Private cos. Scouting for talent in kids and running camps for them to train them at early age has been established by renowned news agencies in the world and it is not any "Indian" pipe dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Any links supporting other countries following the chinese model for success in this olympics? It is still run by sponsors helping high profile athletes in facilities that are run by Govt/Private cos. Scouting for talent in kids and running camps for them to train them at early age has been established by renowned news agencies in the world and it is not any "Indian" pipe dream. The same agencies also admit the fortitude of Chinese athletes, why do we "Indians" tend to forget that? Did you read my post up above about the Chinese swimmer who knocked off seconds in swimming 1500 m freestyle? Why don't Indian, and world, media focus on that instead? Easier to focus on the ugly, isnt it? As for the other countries following the model, it is NOT the Chinese model, but more an East European/Russian model of heavy participation of National Enterprise to turn around sporting success. It has been all over the news, specially if you have watched NBC coverage. Unless of course you beleive, Coffee saab, that Brits woke up one day and started winning 18 Golds when the norm was 6-8, and even 1 in recent Olympics :winky: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 In 2008 GBR won 19, even in 2000 they were 11. So, norm 6-8 was probably earlier. They have focused on cycling and T&F. Hear about how Mo Farah prepared for 10000m . He trained in US, no national enterprise interest there. With no sporting culture, how do you explain the rise in Olympic performance of Chinese? State-run agenies or hard-work?h Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triam Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Lurker Do you trust nytimes, guardian etc? I sincerely hope you do http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/20/world/asia/20iht-20olympics.13846967.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1 Read the nytimes article Some highlights Zheng said her doctor had told her that she risked permanent injury if she kept playing without treatment and rest. But in an interview, she said her coach denied her request to concede the French Open match. In a television interview after her defeat, the coach, Jiang Hongwei, said Zheng and her teammate, Yan Zi, "had too much concern for their injuries, which was an important factor in their performance." In many sports, parents can go years without seeing their children, and may speak to them only once or twice a year. But local and provincial officials are unstintingly attentive, showering gifts on the families during Spring Festival, China's most important holiday, to make up for the children's absence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 That is a creation/invention of many an Indians, afraid to say. Do you really think that Chinese model aka - get kids early, make them perform every tricks, cut them off from family/friends - results in Gold Medals? If that was the case surely the Dictatorial regimes of Middle East and Africa would be bringing as many medals too! exactly my point...without a burning desire you cant make a olympic champion... by your logic...say a swimmer is chosen for her physical attributes and she is not at all interested..so the chineese beat her , force her to swim day in day out..she is not interested but going through motions...even then the chineese pay her and make her sweat thinking that she will win a gold...if you have trained for india..can you say a person can train without interest... what most probably happens is these chineese kids have a dream for olympics...just like indians kids have for cricket..they join a academy..are paid and fed well but they lead a life of extreme hardwork and discipline...those who cant take it..leave it and those who do..stay there and compete....why is this so hard to believe for you guys? yes these academies might have draconian rules...so what...if you are ready to accept it you are part of it..otherwise go and pursue some other goals... regarding being chosen on body shapes and sizes...that could very well be the initial selection..where at that young age among the applicants only those meeting the physical parameters are chosen...not that random people are picked and forced to give these tests and then forced to participate... china is far from a dictator country..it is a figment of imagination that chineese people lead a life of oppression...their political freedom is curbed..but the state doesnt interefere in bars clubd or what women wear or should wear.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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