Congrats Ashwin for maiden 10 wicket haul

[Ram]

LOL! Yuvraj is shi! in tests. Has nothing to do with the story you are trying to weave.

With Ganguly, VVS and Dravid exiting in the last 2 years, I have no doubt in my mind that, but for an extended run of bad luck (that injury he suffered in the tour of Sri Lanka, after playing a glorious innings in the tour game), injuries and an unexpected health issue that came out of nowhere, Yuvraj would be in our test middle order right now (ahead of Raina).

[Ram]

And am pretty sure that Dhoni and Co. will ask for big turners on Day 1. :cantstop: I can predict Bell's average in the series before it starts :P

I dont want raging turners, all I ask for is a pitch where there's something in it for the spinners and there's reverse swing in the last session of the day's play (Zak's already sharpening his knives. :giggle:). We dont need conditions to overwhelmingly favor us to beat sides at home. Let things be fair (they have a couple of good spinners too) and we will see who is made up of what. I dont expect a 3-0 (is it a 3 test series) thrashing of England (remember, the last time they were here, but for an unbelievable p'ship between Sachin and Yuvraj, they would have probably won the series 1-0), but I fully expect us to win.

[The Outsider]

With Ganguly' date=' VVS and Dravid exiting in the last 2 years, I have no doubt in my mind that, but for an extended run of bad luck (that injury he suffered in the tour of Sri Lanka, after playing a glorious innings in the tour game), injuries and an unexpected health issue that came out of nowhere, Yuvraj would be in our test middle order right now (ahead of Raina).[/quote'] Yeah he would have been playing. He still would not have been scoring.

[The Outsider]

Yuvraj can never even average 40 in tests. Wrote it 10 years back that he is crap and will always remain crap.

[Ram]

Yeah he would have been playing. He still would not have been scoring.

I question your statement. I thought I saw some evolution in his game, especially since 2008 that I did not see in the first 5 years of his test career. That is not to suggest that he'd have been reeling off 100s every singe time he stepped on the field, but I think he can be a reasonable no.6 option for India in the medium term.

[Ram]

Yuvraj can never even average 40 in tests. Wrote it 10 years back that he is crap and will always remain crap.

Do you know what you else you wrote about 4-5 years ago - 'I dont any how anyone can rate Hashim Amla'. Remember that? How did that prediction work out for you? :giggle:

[The Outsider]

I question your statement. I thought I saw some evolution in his game' date=' especially since 2008 that I did not see in the first 5 years of his test career. That is not to suggest that he'd have been reeling off 100s every singe time he stepped on the field, but I think he can be a reasonable no.6 option for India in the medium term.[/quote'] Test cricket is not about picking an aggressive number 6. It's about picking your best 6 batsmen. There is no way the ODI hack gets into a top 10 forget about top 6. 230-5 Yuvraj and Dhoni at the crease with the second new ball due.

[The Outsider]

Do you know what you else you wrote about 4-5 years ago - 'I dont any how anyone can rate Hashim Amla'. Remember that? How did that prediction work out for you? :giggle:

You win some you lose some. But my record is better than Katie!

[The Outsider]

BTW another major fail of mine has been Mishra! :wall:

[Magneto]

BTW another major fail of mine has been Mishra! :wall:

Will you please take some time and make a list of your :fail:s? Amla, Mishra, CSK ... and ???? Would be quite entertaining for a lot of us.

[The Outsider]

Will you please take some time and make a list of your :fail:s? Amla, Mishra, CSK ... and ???? Would be quite entertaining for a lot of us.

I won't count CSK as a fail as I hardly watch IPL and just like to troll around with the team with most supporters. In serious cricket my biggest fails have been Mishra, Sreesanth, and Munaf.

[Ram]

Test cricket is not about picking an aggressive number 6. It's about picking your best 6 batsmen. There is no way the ODI hack gets into a top 10 forget about top 6. 230-5 Yuvraj and Dhoni at the crease with the second new ball due.

At this point, I am inclined to side with you on Dhoni (his regression against quality fast bowling on helpful conditions has been alarming), but I think you are under-estimating Yuvraj's ability to survive the moving ball. I personally feel Yuvraj's attacking brand of batting has a good chance of success against the moving ball coming in at no.6 and one multiple occasions, he has proved that as well. Remember, if the p'ship between Dravid and Yuvraj had gone on for one more hour on day of the Nottingham test last year, we may not be sitting here and talking about the 0-8 nightmare. Even before that, when Yasir Arafat's brand of skiddy seam bowling left us tottering at 60-4 against Pakistan in 2007, once again, it was Yuvraj's counter-attack that saved the for us (with some help from Ganguly of course). Again - I am not deluded enough to sit here and say Yuvraj is the 2nd coming of Steve Waugh. But much like Steve Waugh, he has some deficiencies in his game but I still feel he can be a net positive effect for our team coming in at no.6.

[Ram]

I won't count CSK as a fail as I hardly watch IPL and just like to troll around with the team with most supporters. In serious cricket my biggest fails have been Mishra, Sreesanth, and Munaf.

Oh.. I wont let you get off that easily.. Remember the comment about Ishant after his 5 wicket haul against B'desh...? 'This Ishant, Prashant Shashant.... they're all quite useless'. And then Ishant exploded on to the world scene with 12 months of incredible pace and swing bowling that took us to world no.1 in the test rankings. :giggle:

[The Outsider]

Oh.. I wont let you get off that easily.. Remember the comment about Ishant after his 5 wicket haul against B'desh...? 'This Ishant' date= Prashant Shashant.... they're all quite useless'. And then Ishant exploded on to the world scene with 12 months of incredible pace and swing bowling that took us to world no.1 in the test rankings. :giggle:

And where is Ishant now? Competing with Sami and Agarkar? You seriously brought it up as a counter argument - someone averaging 40 after 45 tests

[Trichromatic]

And where is Ishant now? Competing with Sami and Agarkar? You seriously brought it up as a counter argument - someone averaging 40 after 45 tests

His average probably doesn't reflect how poor he has been recently. He was supposed to be in best form and fitness in last 1 year and ended with any part timer doing better than him.

[The Outsider]

His average probably doesn't reflect how poor he has been recently. He was supposed to be in best form and fitness in last 1 year and ended with any part timer doing better than him.

Delusional people still think of him as the next Ambrose and will supposedly 'pwn' me the next time he runs through West Indies.

[Ram]

And where is Ishant now? Competing with Sami and Agarkar? You seriously brought it up as a counter argument - someone averaging 40 after 45 tests

Oh here we go with the numbers game again.. It feels like I am debating with a dumb Paki who goes 'Whats with your Zaheer Khan anyways.. He averages 33 in test matches..Look at our Champion Asif.. He averges 4.5... We winzzz! :yay:...' I am not stupid enough to judge our pacers by their numbers (Case in point - Zak's performance in the first test against NZ. He bowled 24 overs without no wicket). I dont expect our pacers to by ripping thru opposition batsmen for figures of 5-60 at home. Their job is to take the occasional wicket with the new ball (preferably), but more than anything else, come to the party when the old ball starts reversing. In those circumstances, your ultimate numbers are not going to look flattering, but you would have had a very vital role to play in our team's success. I agree that Ishant's career trajectory has gone downwards, but I look at his career taking a step back and here's what I see - The dude helped us win an incredible test at Perth and played match winning roles in 2 winning series against Australia at home (2008 and 2010), one series equaling win against south Africa at home (MoM in that series), another impressive series leveling win against Lanka in Lanka, MoM series winning Performance in West Indies and whole host of other important performances. You name me 5 other fast bowlers in Indian history (starting from 1930 or whenever), who have had a more significant impact and I will concede your case.

[The Outsider]

So what has Ishant done beyond numbers?

[The Outsider]

You are completely delusional if you think Ishant was instrumental in winning the Perth test. It was RP Singh and Pathan followed by Kumble. Yeah he's had a few good series. He's not a bad bowler and is bound to have a few good series. But at the end of his career he will not be among the top 5 Indian pacers.

[Ram]

So what has Ishant done beyond numbers?

Does not Perth 07 mean anything to you? What about Kanpur 08? or Galle 08? Or B'lore 08? or Mohali '10? or maybe (Kingston+Bridgetown) '11? Do you think that but for Ishant's spells in all of those series, there's very good chance that we may have lost all of 'em?. Thats 6 test series in the last 4 years dude!