Protesters storm U.S. Embassy in Cairo

[Silva]

False equivalence of the highest order. One govt invaded with its entire might and held ground until it was in power, spending around a trillion dollars, maybe more and 4-5 thousand precious lives of its soldiers. The other provided support to rebels, spending around a billion which was promised back. Chalk & cheese, however badly you may try to portray this administration. Besides, the attack with anti-tank weaponry was orchestrated by AQ. Such attacks can occur in any ME/African country, its about the embassy security to prevent them from claiming lives and not supporting the Libyan resistance. Your only valid argument would be closing the embassy & non-intervention etc. That's simpler said than done after six decades of policing the world. The Obama administration took some steps in the right direction and it is extremely hypocritical to compare it to the Bush era.

Not really, obama increased the level of involvement in Afghanistan and left Iraq based on George bushs time table. And he did start a war with libya regardless of much better you think it was than the iraq war it was a war none the less.

[ravishingravi]

False equivalence of the highest order. One govt invaded with its entire might and held ground until it was in power, spending around a trillion dollars, maybe more and 4-5 thousand precious lives of its soldiers. The other provided support to rebels, spending around a billion which was promised back. Chalk & cheese, however badly you may try to portray this administration. Besides, the attack with anti-tank weaponry was orchestrated by AQ. Such attacks can occur in any ME/African country, its about the embassy security to prevent them from claiming lives and not supporting the Libyan resistance. Your only valid argument would be closing the embassy & non-intervention etc. That's simpler said than done after six decades of policing the world. The Obama administration took some steps in the right direction and it is extremely hypocritical to compare it to the Bush era.

I dont believe there can be any comparison with BUsh era. He is a war criminal in my book.

[Clarke]

Not really' date=' obama increased the level of involvement in Afghanistan and left Iraq based on George bushs time table.[/quote'] Yes, and that basically was prioritizing the WOT and not going on a wild goose chase for non-existent WMDS. It might not even have come to the surge in Afghanistan if the previous administration had focused on the job at hand. You can spin it the way you want but this Administration has been far better on wars. Its good to see you conzzvatives act like peace loving messiahs on this forum unlike your leadership and vast majority of their supporters. Bull**** It was NATO's mission based on an unopposed UNSC resolution of supporting rebels and had substantial involvement from the British & the French and less trigger happy nations such as Canada & Sweden. No US casualties on the ground, no burning a fiscal hole and jolly good international support. How is this even comparable ? As they say politics makes great bedfellows. You two have good company with the commies: Russia & China in your pursuit of criticizing Obama.

[Desi Cartman]

^ what war, Mission was accomplished long ago :hysterical:

[Brainfade]

I dont believe there can be any comparison with BUsh era. He is a war criminal in my book.

Wait a sec. You just said a few posts ago that Obama was only continuing the policy of his predecessors.

So the current govt. has basically stayed true to its predecessors.

And now the "there can be no comparison"? They are either both right or both wrong. I say both wrong. You? Oh well ...

[Brainfade]

Yes, and that basically was prioritizing the WOT and not going on a wild goose chase for non-existent WMDS. It might not even have come to the surge in Afghanistan if the previous administration had focused on the job at hand. You can spin it the way you want but this Administration has been far better on wars. Its good to see you conzzvatives act like peace loving messiahs on this forum unlike your leadership and vast majority of their supporters. Bull**** It was NATO's mission based on an unopposed UNSC resolution of supporting rebels and had substantial involvement from the British & the French and less trigger happy nations such as Canada & Sweden. No US casualties on the ground, no burning a fiscal hole and jolly good international support. How is this even comparable ? As they say politics makes great bedfellows. You two have good company with the commies: Russia & China in your pursuit of criticizing Obama.

So, just because the UNSC and NATO approved it makes it legit? That's it? After years decades of messing with Islamic countries and arming/propping up one leader/group over another, the US has not realized that it is just not worth it, that they are all a cut of the same cloth, and it is better we leave them the heck alone.

[Clarke]

So, just because the UNSC and NATO approved it makes it legit? That's it?

Of course, unless you're talking in moral terms in which case it depends on who you're talking to especially wrt this conflict.

After years decades of messing with Islamic countries and arming/propping up one leader/group over another, the US has not realized that it is just not worth it, that they are all a cut of the same cloth, and it is better we leave them the heck alone.

Noble idea i cannot disagree with. An extreme about turn from any particular administration, hard to see that happening. This does not however mean that all of them are the same on dealing with ME.

[Lurker]

After years decades of messing with Islamic countries and arming/propping up one leader/group over another, the US has not realized that it is just not worth it, that they are all a cut of the same cloth, and it is better we leave them the heck alone.

Couldn't agree more. Here is a question for you though CA - As a right leaning Libertarian, What do you make of the reason behind all this? That is the video itself. It seems like every few months we have some person pushing the boundary of "free speech" and getting people killed, generally other people and not himself.

[Silva]

Yes, and that basically was prioritizing the WOT and not going on a wild goose chase for non-existent WMDS. It might not even have come to the surge in Afghanistan if the previous administration had focused on the job at hand. You can spin it the way you want but this Administration has been far better on wars. Its good to see you conzzvatives act like peace loving messiahs on this forum unlike your leadership and vast majority of their supporters.

If obama is better on war why did he follow Bushs time table on iraq rather than withdrawing them earlier like he promised? No one here is defending Bush or romney. As for afghanistan we are currently fighting enemies that haven't even heard of 9/11, heck they probably don't even know what a skyscrapper looks like and your perfectly okay with sending troops their? BTW, Over Twice as Many U.S. Soldiers Have Died in Afghanistan Under Obama In 3 1/2 Years Than Did Under Bush in 8 Years. Its a dumb war with no purpose.

As they say politics makes great bedfellows. You two have good company with the commies: Russia & China in your pursuit of criticizing Obama.

thats like a neo con saying Saddam Hussein likes people that were against the Iraq war. The reason why people like me are against most wars is not just the cost on the surface its also because we have no idea what the unintended consequences might be.

[Desi Cartman]

Couldn't agree more. Here is a question for you though CA - As a right leaning Libertarian, What do you make of the reason behind all this? That is the video itself. It seems like every few months we have some person pushing the boundary of "free speech" and getting people killed, generally other people and not himself.

How can they be left alone till US doesnt move away from supporting Israel ?

[Clarke]

If obama is better on war why did he follow Bushs time table on iraq rather than withdrawing them earlier like he promised? No one here is defending Bush or romney.

Please, withdrawal timetable is your argument now ? Clutching straws would be a stretch. You hacks should stop comparing Bush & Obama wrt foreign policy until the latter embarks on a unilateral invasion like Iraq, simple as that.

As for afghanistan we are currently fighting enemies that haven't even heard of 9/11, heck they probably don't even know what a skyscrapper looks like and your perfectly okay with sending troops their? BTW, Over Twice as Many U.S. Soldiers Have Died in Afghanistan Under Obama In 3 1/2 Years Than Did Under Bush in 8 Years. Its a dumb war with no purpose.

The conservative side & the military leadership supported the surge too. Some of them actually wouldn't support the 2014 deadline calling it too premature. As i said earlier, don't expect an about turn from the President to follow your personal choices. Lets hear some anti-war protests and votes in congress from your conzzvative buddies, shall we ? Who asked them to embark on a misadventure in 2003 and let the AQ/Taliban gain strength while the Pakis made a fool of them for so many yrs, thus leaving a mess for the current Prez ?

thats like a neo con saying Saddam Hussein likes people that were against the Iraq war.

Its not an argument, just a tongue/cheek comment. Something like Paul & Sanders agreeing on certain issues.

[Lurker]

How can they be left alone till US doesnt move away from supporting Israel ?

I think those are two un-related points Desi The problem with Arming "rebels", is always the same. In the end after you leave, you can not simply bring back the weapons. They are there in the hands of people who use it against you. This has happened in Afganistan, Iraq, Libya and everywhere else too. Coming to Israel, that is more a rallying point of Islamic countries rather than anything else. Even if Israel would caese to exist tomorrow I do not quite see Saudi Arabia in love with Iran. Just not gonna happen.

[Desi Cartman]

I think those are two un-related points Desi

Hatred towards US in the muslim world is basically due to one reason and that is its support of Israel.

The problem with Arming "rebels", is always the same. In the end after you leave, you can not simply bring back the weapons. They are there in the hands of people who use it against you. This has happened in Afganistan, Iraq, Libya and everywhere else to

Of course its stupid, but they cant stop themselves from spreading democracy. They help people who then turn on the US because US supports Israel.

Coming to Israel, that is more a rallying point of Islamic countries rather than anything else. Even if Israel would caese to exist tomorrow I do not quite see Saudi Arabia in love with Iran. Just not gonna happen.

Saudi Arabia and Iran will not be in love ever and nor would Russia and USA, but it doesnt mean that both would be trying to nuke each other. Bhai jaan saray muddon ki jadh Israel Palestine conflict hai, Obama is putting pressure on Israel so they could move a little so a solution can be agreed upon. At least thats my opinion about Obama Isarel talukaat

[Silva]

Please, withdrawal timetable is your argument now ? Clutching straws would be a stretch. You hacks should stop comparing Bush & Obama wrt foreign policy until the latter embarks on a unilateral invasion like Iraq, simple as that. The conservative side & the military leadership supported the surge too. Some of them actually wouldn't support the 2014 deadline calling it too premature. As i said earlier, don't expect an about turn from the President to follow your personal choices. Lets hear some anti-war protests and votes in congress from your conzzvative buddies, shall we ? Who asked them to embark on a misadventure in 2003 and let the AQ/Taliban gain strength while the Pakis made a fool of them for so many yrs, thus leaving a mess for the current Prez ? Its not an argument, just a tongue/cheek comment. Something like Paul & Sanders agreeing on certain issues.

Not sure why you are hostile to the opinion that for non interventionist like me both partys are bad. Attacking libya increasing the number of troops in an unwinnable war and following bush timetable does not seem like he's trying to change course in foreign policy. But that just my opinion. No need to get angry about it.

[Lurker]

Hatred towards US in the muslim world is basically due to one reason and that is its support of Israel.

Nope. It has many reasons, one of which is support for Israel. One can easily argue that there is a resentment in ME that they lost the supremacy to US and Western powers and hence there is a certain anguish that remains true.

Of course its stupid, but they cant stop themselves from spreading democracy. They help people who then turn on the US because US supports Israel.

Thats a dummy they sell, US does not support ME for democracy, just as it does not support in other countries including Pakistan. The last time a US Ambassdaor was killed was in Pakistan, in 1979, when Zia Ul Haq was the President. Instead of chastising him US cajoled him for another 10 years. They tolerate him because of Afganistan-Russian issue of course. Point being US is hardlly moralistic to the point you may be making them to be :winky:

Saudi Arabia and Iran will not be in love ever and nor would Russia and USA, but it doesnt mean that both would be trying to nuke each other.

US and Russia wont but Saudi Arabia and Iran just might.

Bhai jaan saray muddon ki jadh Israel Palestine conflict hai, Obama is putting pressure on Israel so they could move a little so a solution can be agreed upon. At least thats my opinion about Obama Isarel talukaat

Arre desi chacha, aisa kuch nahin hai bade miyaan. Sab aapko hawa diya hain Shah Bukhari. Woh aap jabse California ke Jama Masjid jaane lagein hain, aur woh chote ghutnon waala pajama pahan-ne lage hain, tab se you have become anti-Israel :cantstop:

[superstar]

Video right on the front page of Youtube. No one noticed it for 6 months . Mission unaccomplised.

[Desi Cartman]

Nope. It has many reasons' date=' one of which is support for Israel. One can easily argue that there is a resentment in ME that they lost the supremacy to US and Western powers and hence there is a certain anguish that remains true.[/quote'] LOST .. when were they superior ? Nahi, that not my point. They look after their interest and that of Israel but when they attack some country they just cant leave it like they could have 2 decades ago. Now they need to make sure there is law and order and elected govt in power. Drama he sahi but they do try to and almost every time they fail and have now finally learned the lesson after Afghanistan. To kya karain ? I say dono ko lad ke kay marne do .. dono mar jayaingay aur hum unke taiel ke kuon pe kabja kar lenge :two_thumbs_up: TBH amreekan janta senti hai Israel ke liye.. ek cheez ke liye Indian mast hai.. no one gives a feck about any other country and sometimes even about India :hysterical: Oh and I dont believe that they give more importance to democracy than to their own personal agenda but the way they market it. Har jaghan naak ghusdney ki aukaat nahi hai ab .. They are fighting a lost battle in ME. Best is to leave them alone as it cant be fixed but they cant as all of these countries are a threat to Israel..

[Clarke]

To kya karain ? I say dono ko lad ke kay marne do .. dono mar jayaingay aur hum unke taiel ke kuon pe kabja kar lenge :two_thumbs_up:

That is a primary problem. If Iran goes nuclear, Saudis aren't going to be held back. Then Egypt tries its best to join the bandwagon. Hopefully they along with Israel can then behave as responsible nuclear powers or else the world's energy supply turns into a nuclear ashtray, and i need not say anything further. Far fetched but not impossible.

[Lurker]

LOST .. when were they superior ?

Arre first world war ke pahle bhai!! Iraq was predominant power in 1920, pata nahin? Issiliye kahta hoon ke Hindi medium se bahar nikalo!! Seriously though, that is not MY argument, that is the argument put forth by loonies in ME. That ME was the seat of world power till about 1200 AD.

To kya karain ? I say dono ko lad ke kay marne do .. dono mar jayaingay aur hum unke taiel ke kuon pe kabja kar lenge :two_thumbs_up:

Issiliye to hum tum pe jaan dete hain meri jaan! Kya pyaari pyaari baatein karte ho, nahin :winky: Ek tel ka kuaan humko bhi chahiye. Everytime I fill the tanki saala 60 dollar nikal jaata hai

Oh and I dont believe that they give more importance to democracy than to their own personal agenda but the way they market it. Har jaghan naak ghusdney ki aukaat nahi hai ab .. They are fighting a lost battle in ME. Best is to leave them alone as it cant be fixed but they cant as all of these countries are a threat to Israel..

That is true. Not many admit it still, but the number of people who do is increasing by the day.

[Desi Cartman]

Arre first world war ke pahle bhai!! Iraq was predominant power in 1920, pata nahin? Issiliye kahta hoon ke Hindi medium se bahar nikalo!! Seriously though, that is not MY argument, that is the argument put forth by loonies in ME. That ME was the seat of world power till about 1200 AD.

kar di na ******.net wali baat :cantstop: