Ishant Sharma The Fast Bowler Watch Thread

[Old guy]

He has really become canon fodder these days ' date='sprays it around , bowl short,seam is wobbly,position of hand all over the place.[/quote'] thank you!

[Old guy]

btw u replied to my comment it wasnt directed at u it was directed at this

Even Aussies have said that most wickets Umesh got was due to Ishant building up pressure on one end.

and plz answer why he is not getting wickets if he bowling well ? my thinking is simple he is not making batsman play enough without his inswing his natural line and length is too short and to wide what do u think the reason is ? we can disagree but i wanna know why is he averaging over 100

[bharat297]

btw u replied to my comment it wasnt directed at u it was directed at this and plz answer why he is not getting wickets if he bowling well ? my thinking is simple he is not making batsman play enough without his inswing his natural line and length is too short and to wide what do u think the reason is ? we can disagree but i wanna know why is he averaging over 100

Ok I'm not saying he's bowling very good. I agree that he does need to make the batsmen play a little bit more but because of his angle he can't afford to bowl on off-stump because batsmen will whip him through mid-wicket, so he needs to be on that 5th stump line. The reason he is struggling to take wickets is because he, like many other Indian bowlers in the past, try too hard to be strike bowlers and go searching for the wickets. As a result they lose their focus on line-and-length. Ishant generally starts spraying it when he starts trying too many things, and that doesn't come naturally to him. This is also why he is not very good in shorter forms of the game because in shorter forms of the game, you need to be able to change it up often. Conversely a bowler like Ashwin is good at constantly changing it up and thats why shorter forms of the game suit him more and in Tests he struggles to maintain a consistent line and length. India do not have a history of bowlers bowling in teams or bowling as a pack ... everyone wants to go for individual glory. This is evident by the fact that most of our big Test victories away from home have been as a result of one bowler bowling a brilliant spell, for the past few years its usually been Zaheer. But he is fading now and India need to change their mentality. India in general need to develop a team mentality as a bowling unit. Rather than trying to find the next individually brilliant bowler, the current crop of bowlers we have need to develop that ability to bowl in partnerships and apply pressure from both ends. Once that happens, it doesn't matter who takes the wickets as long as the team takes the wickets.

[vayuu1]

btw u replied to my comment it wasnt directed at u it was directed at this and plz answer why he is not getting wickets if he bowling well ? my thinking is simple he is not making batsman play enough without his inswing his natural line and length is too short and to wide what do u think the reason is ? we can disagree but i wanna know why is he averaging over 100

His biggest strength was inswing +he is a rhythm bowler,he wanted to have an away swinger, so his stock ball that is in swinger is gone or not as effective as it used to be and if u notice one thing, he used to be high arm in his early days , now a days it bends a bit , hence the awkward bounce he use to get is missing , that high arm and wrist position allowed him to be a bit fuller, now every thing is falling apart for him.

[Old guy]

Ok I'm not saying he's bowling very good. The reason he is struggling to take wickets is because he, like many other Indian bowlers in the past, try too hard to be strike bowlers and go searching for the wickets. As a result they lose their focus on line-and-length. Ishant generally starts spraying it when he starts trying too many things, and that doesn't come naturally to him. This is also why he is not very good in shorter forms of the game because in shorter forms of the game, you need to be able to change it up often. Conversely a bowler like Ashwin is good at constantly changing it up and thats why shorter forms of the game suit him more and in Tests he struggles to maintain a consistent line and length. India do not have a history of bowlers bowling in teams or bowling as a pack ... everyone wants to go for individual glory. This is evident by the fact that most of our big Test victories away from home have been as a result of one bowler bowling a brilliant spell, for the past few years its usually been Zaheer. But he is fading now and India need to change their mentality. India in general need to develop a team mentality as a bowling unit. Rather than trying to find the next individually brilliant bowler, the current crop of bowlers we have need to develop that ability to bowl in partnerships and apply pressure from both ends. Once that happens, it doesn't matter who takes the wickets as long as the team takes the wickets.

arre bhai ishant in australia did not tried anything he was jsut bowling outside off stump short of length with no movement for most part even in perth! :(( about ashwin you are right ...ishant's problem is his seam position he does not gets movement in now a days btw when said he isnt hitting stump often enough i meant he is bowling too wide and not making batsman play enough ..thats why he is utterly useless not cos he is going for wickets..umesh was like that:winky: he tried to many things instead of concentrating on out swinger..sreesanth is like that.. trust me bud i respect people who have watched cricket for so long..hell u should share info about older matches but that does not means ur always right..atleast not to me here ishant has technical problems he need to actually learn to get wickets ..he jsut runs in and bowls like a robot who cant bowl full or bouncers :((

[Old guy]

His biggest strength was inswing +he is a rhythm bowler' date='he wanted to have an away swinger, so his stock ball that is in swinger is gone or not as effective as it used to be and if u notice one thing, he used to be high arm in his early days , now a days it bends a bit , hence the awkward bounce he use to get is missing , that high arm and wrist position allowed him to be a bit fuller, now every thing is falling apart for him.[/quote'] when i see him bowl ..i feel like he will fall after bowling :haha: something is not right..its awkward kind of action now :P

[bharat297]

arre bhai ishant in australia did not tried anything he was jsut bowling outside off stump short of length with no movement for most part even in perth! :(( about ashwin you are right ...ishant's problem is his seam position he does not gets movement in now a days btw when said he isnt hitting stump often enough i meant he is bowling too wide and not making batsman play enough ..thats why he is utterly useless not cos he is going for wickets..umesh was like that:winky: he tried to many things instead of concentrating on out swinger..sreesanth is like that.. trust me bud i respect people who have watched cricket for so long..hell u should share info about older matches but that does not means ur always right..atleast not to me here ishant has technical problems he need to actually learn to get wickets ..he jsut runs in and bowls like a robot who cant bowl full or bouncers :((

Thats not true re: Ishant. Ishant bowled ok in Melbourne in both innings. In Sydney, for instance early on in his spell he bowled several balls in good areas and then when Clarke and Ponting started going after him he tried to go for the full inswinger and ended up bowing half-volleys which Clarke whipped through mid-wicket. Perth was a bit different because Warner just took apart all 4 Indian pacemen and everyone bowled crap. Even in England in 2011 ... besides the first innings of the first test, Ishant didnt bowl as badly as his figures suggested. Still not great but not as badly as his figures suggested. Ishant has shown a fair few times over the past year that he can bowl good spells and keep the batsmen under pressure. Even in the most recent Test he played. I think if he since he is showing this a lot more often now in comparison to 2009-2010 where he was all over the place all the time.

[bharat297]

Im not denying that he's bowled some bad spells over the past year and a half or so. But I'm saying he's also bowled a lot more good ones than he did in the 2-3 years before that (from 2009 onwards). Some of his good spells got wickets and some didnt. The problem is you seem to think that the only good spells he bowled were the ones where he got wickets (e.g. 2 Tests in England, Melbourne Test, or the recent England test are a few examples of where he picked up wickets). But he bowled a fair few other good spells too and his line and length during those were better than before. Of course he needs to make sure those good spells are happening all the time but its been happening more than before and because of that I think if he focuses solely on Test cricket, he can improve even more so.

[Old guy]

Thats not true re: Ishant. Ishant bowled ok in Melbourne in both innings. In Sydney, for instance early on in his spell he bowled several balls in good areas and then when Clarke and Ponting started going after him he tried to go for the full inswinger and ended up bowing half-volleys which Clarke whipped through mid-wicket. Perth was a bit different because Warner just took apart all 4 Indian pacemen and everyone bowled crap. Even in England in 2011 ... besides the first innings of the first test, Ishant didnt bowl as badly as his figures suggested. Still not great but not as badly as his figures suggested. Ishant has shown a fair few times over the past year that he can bowl good spells and keep the batsmen under pressure. Even in the most recent Test he played. I think if he since he is showing this a lot more often now in comparison to 2009-2010 where he was all over the place all the time.

u know u can use bowled well but did not get nay rewards for some time but not over the span of 3 years..and not when u average over 100 he just did not bowled well enough against good teams thats it no excuses he needs to go play some county cricket and improve ..he is not useless he is tall and has pace and has proved in past can be good but he is not good right now also since this has been going for some time now and his average is over 40 ..that means his time is up and even at his so called good spells he cant take wickets and in the end wickets count simple..i dont even agree with wht u said but even going with that he does not deserves to be in team any longer

[Old guy]

Im not denying that he's bowled some bad spells over the past year and a half or so. But I'm saying he's also bowled a lot more good ones than he did in the 2-3 years before that (from 2009 onwards). Some of his good spells got wickets and some didnt. The problem is you seem to think that the only good spells he bowled were the ones where he got wickets (e.g. 2 Tests in England, Melbourne Test, or the recent England test are a few examples of where he picked up wickets). But he bowled a fair few other good spells too and his line and length during those were better than before. Of course he needs to make sure those good spells are happening all the time but its been happening more than before and because of that I think if he focuses solely on Test cricket, he can improve even more so.

bhai u dont use this logic with man who has played almost 50 tests .. and if he cant get wickets in good spells that means he is useless

[bharat297]

I agree that wickets count but I consider wickets for the team as being the first priority. If a bowler can hold up one end and build pressure, then I don't really care whether he gets the wicket or whether the guy at the other end gets the wickets.

[bharat297]

bhai u dont use this logic with man who has played almost 50 tests .. and if he cant get wickets in good spells that means he is useless

The thing is ... Prior to the England series in 2011 I would have said yes. But since England 2011, I feel his line and length has gotten better and some of his good spells have gotten wickets and some of his good spells haven't. He has also bowled some bad spells too I agree but his overall line and length is better than it was prior to England. Re: the technical problems. They were there up until in South Africa in 2010/11 and he was terrible there. But nowadays in Test cricket it's not too bad. His most recent Test against England was pretty good. At the end of the day ... In Test cricket, you need a line-and-length bowler that can hold down one end and build pressure. He has shown he can do this. Now what we need to do is get Yadav fit and have a genuine swing bowler to complement them.

[Old guy]

I agree that wickets count but I consider wickets for the team as being the first priority. If a bowler can hold up one end and build pressure' date=' then I don't really care whether he gets the wicket or whether the guy at the other end gets the wickets.[/quote'] he does not holds end ..normally goes for more then team run rate some one good with stats guru can check he wont be expensive but not a miser either...in the end none for 100 in 30 overs and 25 overs hurt the same ...in 4 man attack as fast bowler u can have job of holding one end..not saying that is wht ishant does but saying in genrel fast bowlers are strike bowlers

[bharat297]

Also I don't know where you got this average 100 from. Not that I care too much about statistics but in 2011 Ishant in 12 tests picked up 43 wickets @ 36, which like I said is ok but is he is steadily improving. In 2012, he only played 5 tests and 3 of which were against Australia where they smashed all of our bowlers around.

[bharat297]

he does not holds end ..normally goes for more then team run rate some one good with stats guru can check he wont be expensive but not a miser either...in the end none for 100 in 30 overs and 25 overs hurt the same ...in 4 man attack as fast bowler u can have job of holding one end..not saying that is wht ishant does but saying in genrel fast bowlers are strike bowlers

Nope not true ... Look at McGrath, Pollock, Clark, Walsh, Hadlee, and many others ... They were all line and length bowlers who kept the ball just outside off stump and tried to find the outside edge.

[Old guy]

Also I don't know where you got this average 100 from. Not that I care too much about statistics but in 2011 Ishant in 12 tests picked up 43 wickets @ 36' date=' which like I said is ok but he is steadily improving. In 2012, he only played 5 tests and 3 of which were against Australia where they smashed all of our bowlers around.[/quote'] thts his avg in australia and no not every one was smacked zack did all right yadav had his days and i used tht cos thts the discussion we were having his bowling in aus and how it helped yadav pick up wickets in reality wht happened was this..zack or yadav got quick wickets and then ishant came and dissapointed every time...australia were 3 sown many times and ishant senior fit bowler was never able to step up and get 1 wicket when pressure was on..yeah this is australian horror show i remember ..waking up everydsy and seeing him bowl his length too short..and changing names to change luck

[Old guy]

Nope not true ... Look at McGrath' date=' Pollock, Clark, Walsh, Hadlee, and many others ... They were all line and length bowlers who kept the ball just outside off stump and tried to find the outside edge.[/quote'] i saw mcgrath and pollock bowl they made batsman play out side of means 4th stump with movement in or out hitting top of stumps...mcgrath said this many many times... ishant bowls bit to short and bit to wide with no movement that is the difference also he does not has control of these legends..or brain to be one step ahead plz dont compare this joker with those legends just cos he tries to do same thing does not means he is doing it correctly also if u want comparison of tht type of bowling then look at philander and see where he bowls..thts the way of doing it not ishants too short ball which u can leave all day

[bharat297]

thts his avg in australia and no not every one was smacked zack did all right yadav had his days and i used tht cos thts the discussion we were having his bowling in aus and how it helped yadav pick up wickets in reality wht happened was this..zack or yadav got quick wickets and then ishant came and dissapointed every time...australia were 3 sown many times and ishant senior fit bowler was never able to step up and get 1 wicket when pressure was on..yeah this is australian horror show i remember ..waking up everydsy and seeing him bowl his length too short..and changing names to change luck

None of the Indian bowlers had great series' in Australia, and Zaheer as the leader of the attack was disappointing too. His first spells were ok but his 2nd and 3rd spells lacked the potency you would expect for an attack leader. I'm not going to deny that Ishant did poorly in Australia but he had his moments too. He bowled well both innings in Melbourne. He did poorly in Sydney and Perth. In Adelaide he did well in the 2nd innings. I'm looking at a general trend over the past year and a half and I think over the past year and a half, Ishant as a Test bowler has gotten better and bowls better lines and lengths now compared to what he was doing in 2009/10. I agree that he still needs to improve. Zaheer Khan is on his last legs and we need a bowler to step up and go to the next level. Ishant I feel is the most capable person to be the attack leader. He needs to take on a Pollock like role of just being the line-and-length bowler that keeps the ball outside off and lets the swing bowlers and pace bowlers have more freedom to try things to take wickets. I agree that maybe instead of ODI and T20 cricket, he should go play county cricket for a little while... but ultimately we need him in the Test side for the next few years to lead our attack.

[maniac]

thts his avg in australia and no not every one was smacked zack did all right yadav had his days and i used tht cos thts the discussion we were having his bowling in aus and how it helped yadav pick up wickets in reality wht happened was this..zack or yadav got quick wickets and then ishant came and dissapointed every time...australia were 3 sown many times and ishant senior fit bowler was never able to step up and get 1 wicket when pressure was on..yeah this is australian horror show i remember ..waking up everydsy and seeing him bowl his length too short..and changing names to change luck

That is exaggeration now....DId you watch all 4 tests...I seriously doubt it? Yes he had a few bad spells and so did everyone else.....TBF to him,he did bowl some really good spells were he was 'unlucky'. I seriously doubt if you have watched teams of the past....most teams don't have 3 bowlers bowling an attacking line..Ishant is a very good support bowler and I said i understand your disappointment like everyone else that he didnt become the strike bowler we expected him to be. He is good in that role.

[Old guy]

That is exaggeration now....DId you watch all 4 tests...I seriously doubt it? Yes he had a few bad spells and so did everyone else.....TBF to him,he did bowl some really good spells were he was 'unlucky'. I seriously doubt if you have watched teams of the past....most teams don't have 3 bowlers bowling an attacking line..Ishant is a very good support bowler and I said i understand your disappointment like everyone else that he didnt become the strike bowler we expected him to be. He is good in that role.

check match threads i will talk to u abt this later..really hard to type on touch screen but this in advance:finger: :cantstop: