Fiscal cliff

[Clarke]

Why are the liberals so desperate to punish the job creators with tax hikes and then waste more money along with handing out cash to the freeloaders :mad:

[yoda]

Damn liberals, trying to shift the burden on the few rich when it could be easily handled by millions of middle and low income earners.

[yoda]

not averted. some gimmick bill passed by the Senate to defer the cuts by 2 months. The US govt is becoming a bigger joke by the day.

[Clarke]

^ Under OBAMA, its his fault :beee:

[Silva]

Problem "solved" by raising taxes on everyone. Didn't expect the the re pubs and democrats to lie to everyone when they talked about not raising taxes on the poor and middle class at all cost.

[The Outsider]

The current "solution" is no solution. The Feds would keep on printing money and keep interest rates at rock bottom. The stock market is going to go into an artificial bubble closing in on 15000 before people realize that the stock prices don't justify the fundamentals of the economy and we could be looking at another crash in 1-2 years as soon as one of the big players start liquidating their positions. With a wobbly housing market and poor economic fundamentals like a rock bottom interest rate, I would think that the outlook is pretty bleak.

[Desi Cartman]

So whats the solution, L'Etranger ?

[The Outsider]

So whats the solution' date=' L'Etranger ?[/quote'] Yaar, if I had the solution I would not be haggling with my management over my bonus the second day into the year. However, there are certain things which are clearly not the solution: 1. The rock bottom interest rates over such sustained periods are not a solution. 2. The trend trading on stock markets are not a solution. Over the last two years the major movements in the markets have been triggered by some macro economic global scenario - not even concrete in most respects, but sentiments. Aaj Brussels mein kuch accha hua to stock market rose 2%, kal China mein numbers acche nahin aaye so it fell 1%. The current stock index is not an accurate representation of the individual companies, which are doing much worse. 3. The economy has improved over the past couple of years and with very little other "safe" investment a booming stock market is being sought as a safe and high yield haven, not too different from housing 10 years back. People are not investing in some fundamental growth of companies, but the growth of the index. That's a dangerous long term trend because at some point the bottom line is going to catch up. 4. This isn't a solution, but just my thought of a solution - everyone needs to bite the bullet and in American speak "take one for the team". Yeah, you will end up paying more taxes and have longer waits and queues in government services, but I feel it's still better than having another 2008 a couple of years from now. With the kind of monopoly America commands they still might be able to tide over that, but a lot of very basic facilities will be hit real hard all of a sudden if/when it happens.

[Brainfade]

Here's NPR's take. Listen: http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=168485812&m=168485795

ROBERT SIEGEL, HOST: From NPR News, this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. I'm Robert Siegel. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: And I'm Audie Cornish. The stock markets kicked the year off with a rally today. The Dow Industrials gained 308 points, about 2.3 percent. You might call that a relief rally following the passage of legislation in Washington to avoid big tax hikes and spending cuts. But action on the debt ceiling and automatic spending cuts is postponed for two months, and business leaders who had pushed hard for a breakthrough are expressing some frustration about that today. Here's NPR's Yuki Noguchi. YUKI NOGUCHI, BYLINE: In the last days of the year, and especially last night, John Engler remained tethered to his phone, fielding text messages from CEOs of major companies who were obsessing over hairpin turns and negotiations to resolve the fiscal cliff. JOHN ENGLER: They're just amazed. They really are aghast at the procedure and the late-night negotiations and the way in which this is done. NOGUCHI: Engler, formerly governor of Michigan, is now president of the Business Roundtable, an organization that represents CEOs. Engler says defining tax levels was important, but represents only half of the equation businesses were looking for. He says by not addressing questions of where to cut spending and by how much, Congress missed an opportunity to allay businesses' concerns with a more comprehensive, longer term bargain. ENGLER: The potential for a bigger deal always seemed to be there, but it was a little bit of Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown, and different people took turns playing Lucy. NOGUCHI: Prior to the deal, many executives put a hold on hiring and investment decisions while keeping a close eye on Washington. Today, business leaders say they are coming to grips with the fact that these kinds of fiscal negotiations are no longer acute periodic dramas but perhaps a more intractable part of business risk. Barry Habib is an executive with mortgage lender Residential Finance. He says his relief was short-lived. BARRY HABIB: Overall, based on what happened last night, I don't think as a business leader you would be influenced in your decision-making process other than you'd feel better about that there's less uncertainty. NOGUCHI: Habib says Congress's tax deal still leaves businesses like his looking ahead to the end of February to watch as the new Congress tries to tackle even more difficult issues of spending cuts and raising the debt ceiling again. And although yesterday's deal raised revenues by $650 billion over 10 years, that does very little to reduce the deficit. HABIB: So when you break it down annually, it's roughly $60 billion a year. And in a hole that's 1.1 trillion, it's about 5 percent. It's not very large, and all of this circus to try and fix 5 percent of the problem. So my reaction is, is that it's disappointing. NOGUCHI: Habib says for now his company plans to add to its base of a thousand employees. However, he says, yesterday's deal points to how unwilling elected officials are to make difficult choices and that that could mean investors in government bonds may eventually see the U.S. as an unsafe bet. That, Habib says, would force interest rates up, which would be bad for business. HABIB: This is what everyone should be worried about. It's what we call the bang moment, and the bang moment comes when the bond market eventually says no. NOGUCHI: He says the U.S. could be headed the same direction as Greece or Spain, and that is an anxiety that businesses will continue to have to cope with for at least another two months. Yuki Noguchi, NPR News, Washington.

[punjabi_khota]

:rofl: Wall Street Journal's SERIOUS take on the tax hikes. $650K family sad http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-poor-poor-rich-of-wall-street.html

[yoda]

There is no question that spending needs to be cut and that too majorly. I say start with defense. :winky:

[Clarke]

It is now more than ever that defense needs to be strengthened. Increase the defense budget by 50-100%, bring in a flat tax to increase revenue from the mooches and cut medicare/medicaid/SS by 50-80%. Why can't Obama propose this balanced approach :dontknow: