We can't succeed unless we improve our bowling. Period.

[jonas10]

Our garbage wickets are a huge factor. We dont have any pitches like Perth everything in our wickets discourage fast bowlers and spinners are currently all crap. How sad is it when your best spinner is a fat guy named Asswin?

[Ponka]

Our garbage wickets are a huge factor. We dont have any pitches like Perth everything in our wickets discourage fast bowlers and spinners are currently all crap. How sad is it when your best spinner is a fat guy named Asswin?

Reply to Ponka's comment in other thread asap.

[Ultimate_Game]

Our garbage wickets are a huge factor. We dont have any pitches like Perth everything in our wickets discourage fast bowlers and spinners are currently all crap. How sad is it when your best spinner is a fat guy named Asswin?

Given sufficient incentives, we can get bowlers. Hand 10 bowlers central contracts worth millions of dollars even though the list contains likes of Dinda and B Kumar. Once youngsters see that they can make money by being a bowler you will see an improvement on the bowling side.

[zen]

So how do we make all these things work for us? For starters I would revamp the central contract system. We hand out contracts to players who are stars rather than focus on player positions. E.g., if we have 25 central contracts we have 18 contracts handed out to batsmen coz they performed well and 2-3 to bowlers like Zak or Ashwin. What I would do is make central contracts focused on positions, so out of 25 contracts have 9 contracts for batsmen, 9 for bowlers, 3 for wks and 4 for all-rounders. You can be evenmore specific by ear-marking 6 out of 9 bowling contracts for pacers. What this system will do is get youngsters to focus on other disciplines than just batting. Now youngsters only want to become batsmen as they see Tendulkars/Sehwags/Dravids/Laxmans etc. But once they see that someone like Manoj Tiwary didn't get the central contract as he wasn't one of the top 9 batsmen but likes of Dinda and B Kumar made millions as they were in the top 9 bowlers, more youngsters would want to become bowlers. Money talks and eventually we will see more bowlers come through. This is just one of the strategies. BCCI can revamp MRF pace academy or NCA, maybe have a partnership with Aussie cricket academy to train our youngsters and so on. But to get better we have to improve our bowling stocks else we will continue to be a mdiocre side.

hmmm, interesting point on the contracts on a lighter note, guys like rohit should be made to pay to play for India :giggle:

[Ultimate_Game]

hmmm, interesting point on the contracts on a lighter note, guys like rohit should be made to pay to play for India :giggle:

It really hurts to see India under-perform so massively at intl stage when they have so many resources at their disposal. There are so many ways India can improve its talent level from grass root level and up, they can come up with so many new schemes and programs to nurture the talent but unless cricket is managed professionally instead of corrupt businessmen and politicians (Srinivasan, Shukla, Pawar etc.) nothing will change.

[zen]

It really hurts to see India under-perform so massively at intl stage when they have so many resources at their disposal. There are so many ways India can improve its talent level from grass root level and up' date=' they can come up with so many new schemes and programs to nurture the talent but unless cricket is managed professionally instead of corrupt businessmen and politicians (Srinivasan, Shukla, Pawar etc.) nothing will change.[/quote'] As they say: failing to plan = planing to fail :winky:

[Ultimate_Game]

As they say: failing to plan = planing to fail :winky:

I know man. It just hurts to see that we haven't won even a maiden Test series in Aus & SA and that our best performance in our cricketing history came in the last decade thanks to the ATG batting lineup - which was more due to luck than planning. And the current downfall ha shown how capable our administrators are. I'm sure people at MRF pace academy and NCA are cashing checks just like Fletcher is without any accountability whatsoever. I hope we get people who really care about Indian cricket to run BCCI else we will revert back to 90s, or maybe 60s & 70s.

[vvvslaxman]

I know man. It just hurts to see that we haven't won even a maiden Test series in Aus & SA and that our best performance in our cricketing history came in the last decade thanks to the ATG batting lineup - which was more due to luck than planning. And the current downfall ha shown how capable our administrators are. I'm sure people at MRF pace academy and NCA are cashing checks just like Fletcher is without any accountability whatsoever. I hope we get people who really care about Indian cricket to run BCCI else we will revert back to 90s' date=' or maybe 60s & 70s.[/quote'] I dont think they care to plan. Remember the words of srinivasan. On home grounds we beat them. Basically nobody at the top level gives any damn about fortunes of Indian cricket.

[Ultimate_Game]

I dont think they care to plan. Remember the words of srinivasan. On home grounds we beat them. Basically nobody at the top level gives any damn about fortunes of Indian cricket.

Sad but true. We can only hope that Indian performances, or lack thereof, hurt BCCI higher-ups as much as they do Indian fans.

[jairamesh]

I know man. It just hurts to see that we haven't won even a maiden Test series in Aus & SA and that our best performance in our cricketing history came in the last decade thanks to the ATG batting lineup - which was more due to luck than planning. And the current downfall ha shown how capable our administrators are. I'm sure people at MRF pace academy and NCA are cashing checks just like Fletcher is without any accountability whatsoever. I hope we get people who really care about Indian cricket to run BCCI else we will revert back to 90s' date= or maybe 60s & 70s.

This is another big issue. Too much blame goes on players whilst administrators have been left scotch free dancing and prancing with wh ores (literally) in the IPL.

[Marut]

IN ODIs we are losing mainly due batting falures. In test matches, we lost due to both batting and bowling faliure. Our bowling has always been mediocre, which was masked by a strong batting line up. The combination of mediocre bowling and strong batting made us a half decent team that even made it to the top for a while. Once the batting collapsed, we have collapsed like a deck of cards. We are going to remain a mediocre team for a few years, losing heavily to good teams and edging it out against weaker teams. The void left by our batting legends is not going to be filled any time soon, and our next overseas tours are going to be merry time. With Dravid scoring 3 centuries in four tests in England, we were handed one of the heaviest defeats in history. What would have happened without Dravid on that tour? Any tour to England, Australia, South Africa etc with this Indian team will be funny and will be as one sided as the match between SA and NZ.

[Ultimate_Game]

IN ODIs we are losing mainly due batting falures. In test matches, we lost due to both batting and bowling faliure. Our bowling has always been mediocre, which was masked by a strong batting line up. The combination of mediocre bowling and strong batting made us a half decent team that even made it to the top for a while. Once the batting collapsed, we have collapsed like a deck of cards. We are going to remain a mediocre team for a few years, losing heavily to good teams and edging it out against weaker teams. The void left by our batting legends is not going to be filled any time soon, and our next overseas tours are going to be merry time. With Dravid scoring 3 centuries in four tests in England, we were handed one of the heaviest defeats in history. What would have happened without Dravid on that tour? Any tour to England, Australia, South Africa etc with this Indian team will be funny and will be as one sided as the match between SA and NZ.

Only way for us to be competitive would be to improve on the bowling front. Replacing an ATG batting lineup is not gonna happen so we need to focus on getting our pathetic bowling lineup half-decent. Either way, it's gonna be a long hard journey. But to BCCI it shouldn't matter as they still have IPL, and maybe they can come up with an extended version with 20 IPL franchises.

[ganeshran]

If replacing an ATG batting lineup is not going to happen, we might as well give up on the bowling front because that is far far more harder given our limited reserves The batting has players who should stand up and oversee the transition process. the bowling has absolutely no one like that. The batting also has decent batsmen who have shown good enough to be international class but are waiting in the ranks. Bowling is completely unproven yet. First the rot that has set in must be removed from the top. Dhoni should step down as captain and continue as a player only in the LOI side. He should not play in tests where there is no way on earth he can be half decent batsmen or slightly above average keeper. It is time to take a punt on the test captaincy by giving it to someone younger. I doubt we can do much worse than what we have done in the last 2 years Once the leadership issue is settled, then come the players. On the bowling front atleast the BCCI is thinking beyond the older players and it should be continued along with the other initiatives which yield long term results and not necessarily short term benefits .e.g. better pitches, more school level tourneys, selectors going to zonal matches etc.

[ganeshran]

Also Yuvi and Raina must be told they have no test future, might as well concentrate on their LOI game and play in a format where they have won us a lot of games before.

[Ultimate_Game]

If replacing an ATG batting lineup is not going to happen' date= we might as well give up on the bowling front because that is far far more harder given our limited reserves The batting has players who should stand up and oversee the transition process. the bowling has absolutely no one like that. The batting also has decent batsmen who have shown good enough to be international class but are waiting in the ranks. Bowling is completely unproven yet. First the rot that has set in must be removed from the top. Dhoni should step down as captain and continue as a player only in the LOI side. He should not play in tests where there is no way on earth he can be half decent batsmen or slightly above average keeper. It is time to take a punt on the test captaincy by giving it to someone younger. I doubt we can do much worse than what we have done in the last 2 years Once the leadership issue is settled, then come the players. On the bowling front atleast the BCCI is thinking beyond the older players and it should be continued along with the other initiatives which yield long term results and not necessarily short term benefits .e.g. better pitches, more school level tourneys, selectors going to zonal matches etc.

If our plan is to replace ATGs expecting the same level of output we will fail. Improving on bowling front is an easier option provided BCCI focuses on it. Earlier getting youngsters to become bowlers was a futile exercise but now with all the money and resources at BCCI's disposal they can have incentives & systems in place (I outlined a couple few posts back) to add bowling depth.

Also Yuvi and Raina must be told they have no test future' date=' might as well concentrate on their LOI game and play in a format where they have won us a lot of games before.[/quote'] Selecting Raina & Yuvi ahead of the likes of Rahane, Rohit and Tiwary was a shocking decision but it's BCCI we are talking about.

[zen]

we could be going the NZ way .... where there is no one particular dept that can shine, so a collective effort from the whole team is required to pull through When we get players of ATG caliber whether in batting or bowling, it would be great. Now the focus should be on building a balanced side which can win us games through a collective effort (and fighting), i.e. both with the bat and the ball .... Then, if we can add/develop ATG level players, it would be a bonus Mainly relying on an ATG batsman or two to pop up and pull us through would be like to going through the same cycles again

[Ultimate_Game]

we could be going the NZ way .... where there is no one particular dept that can shine, so a collective effort from the whole team is required to pull through When we get players of ATG caliber whether in batting or bowling, it would be great. Now the focus should be on building a balanced side which can win us games through a collective effort (and fighting), i.e. both with the bat and the ball .... Then, if we can add/develop ATG level players, it would be a bonus Mainly relying on an ATG batsman or two to pop up and pull us through would be like to going through the same cycles again

We have too many resources at our disposal to go the NZ way. For starters we have a huge population base, we are a one sport nation and the said sport generates plenty of revenue. It's just that BCCI has never really come of the 80s/90s mindset to farm, develop and nurture the talent, especially on the bowling side. Whenever our lack of bowling depth comes up BCCI always says "but we have always been a weak bowling nation and batting has been our strength". Truth is earlier we rarely had any resources at our disposal to do much about it. We were literally on par with likes of Pakis & Loins in 80s and even in mid 90s as far as our resources were concerned. But over the last 15 years or so dynamics have changed so much so that we are the top dog in intl cricket, not just in Asia (financially speaking). Earlier we couldn't do much about our lack of depth in bowling but now we can. We can have systems in place right at the school level to groom promising youngsters and grant them scholarships through school & colleges. At first class level we can grant the promising players more security in terms of long term contracts and at national level highly paid contracts could be granted to say 10-15 bowlers annually to ensure we get the players with skill-sets we need. We can afford to do things now what we couldn't dream of even 15 years back. It's just that BCCI will have to do some real work and actually spend some of the money that they simply pocket.

[Spiderguy252]

We don't even have a good spinner anymore. Nobody says it out aloud, but Kumble has been our biggest loss IMO.

[Ultimate_Game]

We don't even have a good spinner anymore. Nobody says it out aloud' date=' but Kumble has been our biggest loss IMO.[/quote'] Most people already know that he's been our biggest match-winner.

[vvvslaxman]

We don't even have a good spinner anymore. Nobody says it out aloud' date=' but Kumble has been our biggest loss IMO.[/quote'] Our leg spin options are mediocre. After Kapil dev retirement Kumble took over. Srinath and later Zaheer provided great support. Bhajji gave adequate support (atleast in the beginning). Now we don't have that ace bowler that you can bank on.