Early marriage curbs crimes, Indian Psychiatric Society chief says

[Lurker]

We met a woman at the park yesterday who has 2 year old twins. As she started chatting she told us that she is a 51 year old woman and her husband is 55. Obviously they had to find an ovum donor and had to get it planted but besides that she was able to carry the kids till 38 weeks (very rare for twins). The kids look healthy and the couple seems very happy but it made me wonder if it is the right thing to do' date= these kids will have parents who will be 70+ when they graduate out of high school.

People are different, Desi baba. Not sure about this particular couple, but think of a different scenario. These people, in 50s, have lived their best days of life without worrying about changing diapers. The women, assuming she worked, would have most likely moved up the career ladder without worrying about pregnancy and/or the sabbatical that typically comes with it. There is a good chance they worked hard, saved money, travelled around and maybe retired early. Quite different from a usual couple whose life changes completely after kids. Life is just too complicated and specially putting yourself in a different person's shoe. Plus marriage, kids and sex are three different(and unique) things. Somehow we, and I mean Indians (even Down Under Indians like you :bootyshake:), make them one and the same philosphy

[Desi Cartman]

^ arey bhai hum kab bole ke sex aur having kids is the same thing ? Humari tippini bachay jaldi paida karne ke vishey mein thi

[Lurker]

^ arey bhai hum kab bole ke sex aur having kids is the same thing ? Humari tippini bachay jaldi paida karne ke vishey mein thi

Life is complex Desi baba. Seems like the couple and kids were happy. Tum bhi khush raho :icflove: Mast raho masti mein, aag lage basti mein bhai. :yay:

[Tiger80]

Why do we Indians always try to focus on the worst possibility? Let me try to explain that with an analogy. True story too. When I travelled overseas first time in late 90s, my Mom told very me very endearingly - Accha se rehna, aur roz phone karna (stops for a second realizing it would be very expensive..this is prior to Skype and VOIP era), bas ek minute ke liye phone kar dena...aur hoshiyaar rehna, aajkal bahut bimaari faila hua hai. God bless Moms of this world lol. That was her way of saying Dont sleep around lest you get AIDS.

Indians have double standard for what they do in India and what they do outside.There was a religious Hindu guy who once gave me lecture that how i should not eat non veg.He even said that he don't even touch egg and don't even like someone eating non veg in front of him.Then he told me he may consider moving to canada and doing any job like waiter , cook etc.I said you can't even bear slight non veg here , but there you may even have to cook or serve meat even beef. I was shocked when he told me that he don't have problem with it.So all those big lectures of vegetarianism were for India

Some of the most religious Christian States (Latina America for example) are very open when it comes to sexuality. Brazil, which is 2/3rd, Roman Catholic would put any European country to shame. Same with other Latin countries. Even European countries, like Ireland and Italy, which are stringent on abortion do not preclude sex outside of wedlock.

If I am not wrong Christian culture is more open in accepting sex than Hindu or muslim culture

What about Eastern countries? Japan is as liberated as any country in matter of sex, or sexual discourse. Same withTaiwan, Korea and many other nation.

You raised a good point. If you look at Korea and Japan in terms of single unwed mothers you will find that only 2% mothers are unwed in those countries.While in Europe or america its around 50%

But the Japanese believe something that many people in the West only half-believe or only believe when it suits them: that the interests of children are clearly best served by having two, married parents. They therefore think it wrong or shameful knowingly and intentionally to bring a child into the world without that arrangement. http://www.thewelfarestatewerein.com/parenting/2011/04/why-are-there-so-few-japanese-unmarried-mothers.php

So Japanese believe its shameful to become single mother , that's why even after such economic development and adoption of western culture , large majority of women still abstain from becoming single mother.Then how could you expect India which is way behind Japan to accept what they consider shameful

[Lurker]

Indians have double standard for what they do in India and what they do outside.There was a religious Hindu guy who once gave me lecture that how i should not eat non veg.He even said that he don't even touch egg and don't even like someone eating non veg in front of him.Then he told me he may consider moving to canada and doing any job like waiter , cook etc.I said you can't even bear slight non veg here , but there you may even have to cook or serve meat even beef. I was shocked when he told me that he don't have problem with it.So all those big lectures of vegetarianism were for India

I am not sure what you meant there. Looks like you are suggesting that Indians who have gone abroad have managed to remain decent outlook to life inspite of the fact that they did not have any boundaries (relatively speaking). But if they had stayed behind they would have became sex monsters? Is that what you are suggesting? can you clarify?

If I am not wrong Christian culture is more open in accepting sex than Hindu or muslim culture

Hinduism, you can also include Buddhism, is the religion of Kamasutra, Ajanta-Ellora. That should be enough said, no?

You raised a good point. If you look at Korea and Japan in terms of single unwed mothers you will find that only 2% mothers are unwed in those countries.While in Europe or america its around 50%

You are back to the same children = marriage saga, arent you? :winky: Please feel free to check how many Japanese women, or men, are virgins before marriage. And how does that number compare with Indians. I am talking about men and women marrying late and how they often miss out on sex, why make it complicated with kids?

[Laaloo]

Hinduism is open to sex, not hindus. Not present day hindus regardless. Your mind would be blown away when you come across what these rushis did thousands of years ago. Present day hindus are busy chanting bhajans in the name of god, rather than trying to find out what the gods in each of their lives. I guess in present day hindus, you can also include the last couple of generations. Some of the problems in India would literally be extinct if the people actually could interpret and practice what's written in the Vedas.

[Lurker]

Hinduism is open to sex' date= not hindus. Not present day hindus regardless. Your mind would be blown away when you come across what these rushis did thousands of years ago. Present day hindus are busy chanting bhajans in the name of god, rather than trying to find out what the gods in each of their lives. I guess in present day hindus, you can also include the last couple of generations. Some of the problems in India would literally be extinct if the people actually could interpret and practice what's written in the Vedas.

++ I will add Buddhism alongside too. If you are ever in Bihar-UP area do look up Sarnath, Rajgir, Bodh Gaya etc. You woud be amazed at the sculpture and temples and right amongst the sacred statues would be sexual statues too. It is all part of the place. Right there in the temple. It is only that these days we all go Ohhhhh My God! I had mentioned this in a different thread too. We Indians, and specially Hindus, take pride in our history/culture (rightfully so too) but nothing exposes our own hypocracy better than Kamasutra. We take pride in it but today it would only be found under the beds of grown men, or on the hidden file of a teenager's computer who is promptly tagged as a lose character :hysterical:

[punjabi_khota]

Some of the problems in India would literally be extinct if the people actually could interpret and practice what's written in the Vedas.

Hindu shariah :protest:

[Laaloo]

Hindu shariah :protest:

[1983-2011]

Hinduism is open to sex' date=' not hindus. Not present day hindus regardless. Your mind would be blown away when you come across what these rushis did thousands of years ago. Present day hindus are busy chanting bhajans in the name of god, rather than trying to find out what the gods in each of their lives. I guess in present day hindus, you can also include the last couple of generations. Some of the problems in India would literally be extinct if the people actually could interpret and practice what's written in the Vedas.[/quote'] laaloo baba ki jai

[Tiger80]

I am not sure what you meant there. Looks like you are suggesting that Indians who have gone abroad have managed to remain decent outlook to life inspite of the fact that they did not have any boundaries (relatively speaking). But if they had stayed behind they would have became sex monsters? Is that what you are suggesting? can you clarify?

What I am saying is " Jo aadmi India se bahar jaate hain unke liye sab maaf hai" even in the eye's of many orthodox Indians.Wahan to sab karna parta hai yaa whan kaa culture hai.

Hinduism, you can also include Buddhism, is the religion of Kamasutra, Ajanta-Ellora. That should be enough said, no?

I think we should look at religion the way it is practiced in last 200-300 years and not how it was practiced thousands of years ago

You are back to the same children = marriage saga, arent you? :winky: Please feel free to check how many Japanese women, or men, are virgins before marriage. And how does that number compare with Indians. I am talking about men and women marrying late and how they often miss out on sex, why make it complicated with kids?

What I am saying is that even after acceptance of pre marital sex Japanese and Koreans did not accept single mothers because of the their culture.So how can we accept Indians to accept pre marital sex when it is such a big taboo religion wise and culture wise. Also India has many communities and religions living side by side .If one community will adopt western culture then rest will make sure to pull them back by labelling them as loose and immoral particularly their women. Recently I was watching TV discussion about whether muslim girls should be allowed to marry at 15 and the muslim scholar woman who was advocating for it was giving argument that others(pointing towards hindu's) are now accepting pre marital sex so muslims should be allowed to marry their girls at 15 as it is forbidden in islam.Meenakshi lekhi BJP spokesperson was trying very hard to convince her that pre marital sex is as much taboo in all other religions as it is in muslims. So acceptance of pre marital sex is almost impossible in India if we take rural and small towns of India into consideration

[Lurker]

What I am saying is " Jo aadmi India se bahar jaate hain unke liye sab maaf hai" even in the eye's of many orthodox Indians.Wahan to sab karna parta hai yaa whan kaa culture hai.

I am not sure if me and you are communicating very well here. Let me try to take a stab one more time. After a good decade or two of a lot of Indians, possibly into millions, travelling/immigrating abroad you would still be hard pressed to find a lot of examples where the NRI has turned into a sex maniac. Inspite of the fact that often he has open mandate to do "things" and not get caught. If they can maintain decency why would it be any different to Indians back home? Or are you suggesting those who travel abroad suddenly develop a moral backbone, while those back home lose that? Help me understand.

I think we should look at religion the way it is practiced in last 200-300 years and not how it was practiced thousands of years ago

That is rather convenient, isn't it? You start with how Christianity is more open than say Hinduism, and on being shown that is not really true you bring the era into it. By the way Christianity was also pretty backward once upon a time but religious renaissance brought it to where it is. In Hinduism it may be the other way around where we have regressed and somehow you seem to suggest that is a good state to be.

What I am saying is that even after acceptance of pre marital sex Japanese and Koreans did not accept single mothers because of the their culture.So how can we accept Indians to accept pre marital sex when it is such a big taboo religion wise and culture wise.

Pre Marital sex and unwed mothers are two different things. Japanese and Koreans are far more accepting than Indians are with regards to pre-marital sex. You are perhaps missing the point a bit there.

[Laaloo]

I think we should look at religion the way it is practiced in last 200-300 years and not how it was practiced thousands of years ago

Yeah pick a religion that has practically destroyed itself in the last 200-300 years because of anna shradda, etc. You cannot just look at Hinduism in the last 200-300 years. If you think that is true hinduism, then you must be kidding yourself.

[Crookbond]

What I am saying is that even after acceptance of pre marital sex Japanese and Koreans did not accept single mothers because of the their culture.So how can we accept Indians to accept pre marital sex when it is such a big taboo religion wise and culture wise.

Japanese are also very honest and polite people. How can we Indians not be honest and polite in every situation of life when it is already mentioned in our religion and culture? Rhetoric questions do not help the discourse. The fact of the matter is that pre-marital sex taboo is nothing but paranoia. It has time and again proved wrong. The AIDS prevention program in the late 80s first started "no sex, no sex ...". That didn't work much, so they have shifted to "safe sex" and contraceptive methods. It is not about accepting any culture, it is about thinking rationally. On pure rationale, there is nothing wrong in pre-marital sex. Moreover, it is an individual's decision to indulge in it or not. You don't like it, you don't do it; I like it and I indulge. Moral policing has to stop as a start.

[Late Cut]

Sex is fun and good for your health- for both men and women; marrried or not. All the other "proprieties" is just noise from people who can't get laid without help; i.e., you ain't got no game fool!

[Tiger80]

I am not sure if me and you are communicating very well here. Let me try to take a stab one more time. After a good decade or two of a lot of Indians, possibly into millions, travelling/immigrating abroad you would still be hard pressed to find a lot of examples where the NRI has turned into a sex maniac. Inspite of the fact that often he has open mandate to do "things" and not get caught. If they can maintain decency why would it be any different to Indians back home? Or are you suggesting those who travel abroad suddenly develop a moral backbone, while those back home lose that? Help me understand.

Ok let me clarify 1) What I said was that the probably the reason your mother said that " bahar bahut bimaari hai" . 2) I did not reply to your point that Indians are not turning into sex maniacs outside India. But now let me have two words on it. Your assumption that Indians are afraid that indians might turn into sex maniacs if they engage in pre marital sex is not fully true.It has more to do with preserving religion and culture.As it is taboo in Religions , so if you break one taboo then there is every chance you may start breaking others.Nri's are totaly different case.One need to do research that why so many NRI's turns into extreme patriotism , or religious fanatics

That is rather convenient, isn't it? You start with how Christianity is more open than say Hinduism, and on being shown that is not really true you bring the era into it. By the way Christianity was also pretty backward once upon a time but religious renaissance brought it to where it is. In Hinduism it may be the other way around where we have regressed and somehow you seem to suggest that is a good state to be.

I should have used word European christian culture rather than just Christian

Prior to the Marriage Act 1753, British couples lived together and had sex after their betrothal or "the spousals". Until the mid-1700s, it was normal and acceptable for the bride to be pregnant at the nuptials, the later church public ceremony for the marriage. With the act in force, for the first time in British history, all marriages in England and Wales had to occur in their parish church. (The law also applied to Catholics, but Jews and Quakers were exempt.) The Marriage Act combined the spousals and nuptials and, by the start of the 19th century, social convention prescribed that brides be virgins at marriage. Illegitimacy became more socially discouraged, with first pregnancies outside of marriage declining from 40% to 20% during the Victorian era but returning to 40% by the start of the 21st century.[6]

It looks from the above that how much acceptance of pre marital sex was in British society 270 years ago. And I don't know from where you get notion that I am saying it is good or bad.Whether it is renaissance or what the fact is pre marital sex was never a cultural shock to Europeans as it is to Indians.Whether Indians will accept it in future or not only time will tell

Pre Marital sex and unwed mothers are two different things. Japanese and Koreans are far more accepting than Indians are with regards to pre-marital sex. You are perhaps missing the point a bit there.

Yes they are different but the influence of cultural taboo is the same.Japanese may have taken the first step of accepting pre marital sex ( according to wiki in 1998 survey majority Japanese disagreed with pre marital sex) but still they are not taking the second step of accepting Single unwed mothers.In the case of India , the Indians are still unwilling to take the first step

[Tiger80]

Yeah pick a religion that has practically destroyed itself in the last 200-300 years because of anna shradda' date=' etc. You cannot just look at Hinduism in the last 200-300 years. If you think that is true hinduism, then you must be kidding yourself.[/quote'] There is hardly anything such as true Hinduism , Sikhism , Budhism etc.unless we develop time travel machine and go to founding fathers of that religion.All sects of religion claim that their version is true, so what to do?

[Tiger80]

Japanese are also very honest and polite people. How can we Indians not be honest and polite in every situation of life when it is already mentioned in our religion and culture? Rhetoric questions do not help the discourse. The fact of the matter is that pre-marital sex taboo is nothing but paranoia. It has time and again proved wrong. The AIDS prevention program in the late 80s first started "no sex, no sex ...". That didn't work much, so they have shifted to "safe sex" and contraceptive methods. It is not about accepting any culture, it is about thinking rationally. On pure rationale, there is nothing wrong in pre-marital sex. Moreover, it is an individual's decision to indulge in it or not. You don't like it, you don't do it; I like it and I indulge. Moral policing has to stop as a start.

Do society run on logic and rationality? The answer is no.Please tell me why India don't have legal beef industry when there are communities and places in India who can slaughter cows and legally export its meat Just for the sake of large section of Indian society , Govt has to put ban legal export of beef even it is giving birth to smuggling and Govt is loosing thousands of crore every year. So where is logic and rationality?

[Crookbond]

Do society run on logic and rationality? The answer is no.Please tell me why India don't have legal beef industry when there are communities and places in India who can slaughter cows and legally export its meat Just for the sake of large section of Indian society , Govt has to put ban legal export of beef even it is giving birth to smuggling and Govt is loosing thousands of crore every year. So where is logic and rationality?

The problem is not what it is run on - the problem is accepting irrational choices and turning them into hard lined societal norms. A wrong in another aspect of the society, doesn't give you any reason to quote the irrational behavior in a different aspect and justify the current topic under discussion. In the context of this discussion, you need to prove empirically or theoretically that pre-marital sex is not good and how it affects our society. I have drawn a clear demarcation and set a stage for you to make your point - the ball is in your court. We are all ears on this thread.

[Tiger80]

The problem is not what it is run on - the problem is accepting irrational choices and turning them into hard lined societal norms. A wrong in another aspect of the society' date=' doesn't give you any reason to quote the irrational behavior in a different aspect and justify the current topic under discussion. In the context of this discussion, [b']you need to prove empirically or theoretically that pre-marital sex is not good and how it affects our society. I have drawn a clear demarcation and set a stage for you to make your point - the ball is in your court. We are all ears on this thread.

I am not arguing in favour or against pre marital sex.What I am saying is that in present times acceptance of pre marital sex is almost impossible by large section of Indian society.We are still a country where parents still don't accept inter caste marriage in same religion , how could you expect that those parents will start accepting pre marital sex?