Team for Australia | Gambhir Dropped, Dhawan picked

[CG]

It does make a big difference. Why do you think players such as Sangakarra in Tests or an ABDV in LOIs gave up their keeping for the sake of their batting?

Because they can dhoni as a batsmna at no 3,4, in tests will be poorer.

[SLICKR392]

Dk has played against some tough attacks be it aussie attacks in 2004 or sa attack.He opened in sa and eng .Also dk has played 23 tests till now.

Facing them doesn't make him better than Dhoni. He might have faced better attacks than Dhoni did but did he perform against them is the question.

[CG]

Facing them doesn't make him better than Dhoni. He might have faced better than attack than Dhoni did but did he perform against them is the question.

I was pointing to the diff in stats.Dk is a better test batsman than dhoni ,He is technically far superior to dhoni and should be backed.No 7 is a important position and dhonis failures in recent years means we should already have tried dk or ws.But indian cricket is in dumps.

[Trichromatic]

I was pointing to the diff in stats.

Both performed in England series. In other away series Dhoni did better when they were together. When they weren't together, DK couldn't perform at home and against easier attacks. That's why there is difference in stats.

[CG]

Both performed in England series. In other away series Dhoni did better when they were together. When they weren't together' date=' KD couldn't perform at home and against easier attacks.[/quote'] which aways series are u taking about? Dhoni did well in india against pak where dk struggled as a opener but i do not know which away series except eng,bang they played.

[Trichromatic]

which aways series are u taking about? Dhoni did well in india against pak where dk struggled as a opener but i do not know which away series except eng,bang they played.

None, that's why saying that DK's record is poor just because he played a lot of away matches and thus he is better than Dhoni doesn't sound that good. Dhoni's record is better because he has done better than him.

[saneindian]

2011 was the worst of Dhoni's test career, averaged 27 over 12 tests, thats not very far from what DK has done in his entire career so far, average of 28 over 27 tests. But DK is obviously better.

[SLICKR392]

2011 was the worst of Dhoni's test career, averaged 27 over 12 tests, thats not very far from what DK has done in his entire career so far, average of 28 over 27 tests. But DK is obviously better.

I was pointing to the diff in stats.Dk is a better test batsman than dhoni ' date=He is technically far superior to dhoni and should be backed.No 7 is a important position and dhonis failures in recent years means we should already have tried dk or ws.But indian cricket is in dumps.

Being technically better and not scoring runs are two different things. What's the use of a good technique if you aren't able to score runs and DK bats down the order in FC. Apart from his 160 or 180 + on a pitch that offered nothing to the bowlers he was very, very mediocre. As of now Dhoni is a better batsman than DK, period.

[The Outsider]

It does make a big difference. Why do you think players such as Sangakarra in Tests or an ABDV in LOIs gave up their keeping for the sake of their batting?

Sangakkara averages 70 when he is not keeping so he is much better than Tendulkar, Dravid, Ponting, Kallis, Lara?

[SLICKR392]

Sangakkara averages 70 when he is not keeping so he is much better than Tendulkar' date=' Dravid, Ponting, Kallis, Lara?[/quote'] I am not sure if you are contradicting my post or supporting it with those stats. Those stats of Sangakarra shows that keeping does affect your batting. That was my whole point.

[The Outsider]

I am not sure if you are contradicting my post or supporting it with those stats. Those stats of Sangakarra shows that keeping does affect your batting. That was my whole point.

No they don't show that. When Sangakkara used to keep his game had not evolved as yet and that was the main reason for his lower average, like Karthik in the initial stages of his career. Karthik is a much better batsman now, irrespective of whether he keeps or not. Sangakkara's giving up keeping and playing as a batsman coincided with his game getting better and his running into form, but that does not mean one thing was responsible for the other except for a minor effect.

[SLICKR392]

No they don't show that. When Sangakkara used to keep his game had not evolved as yet and that was the main reason for his lower average, like Karthik in the initial stages of his career. Karthik is a much better batsman now, irrespective of whether he keeps or not. Sangakkara's giving up keeping and playing as a batsman coincided with his game getting better and his running into form, but that does not mean one thing was responsible for the other except for a minor effect.

A minor effect did make a difference to his batting form. I will take that!

Karthik is a much better batsman now, irrespective of whether he keeps or not.

What makes you say that? __________________________________________________________ The man himself agrees :

India and Chennai skipper MS Dhoni is on the same page as his Sri Lankan counterpart. The only difference though, is that Dhoni is still keeping wickets in all forms of the game. So it's not a surprise when Sangakkara mentions that it's due to the wicketkeeping chores that Dhoni's batting is taking a beating in Tests. "Dhoni's Test average is not reflective of his capabilities," says Sangakkara. "Keeping, batting and leading a side simultaneously can be hard. Dhoni is a wonderful batsman but because he is doing so much at the same time, he is not batting as well as he should."

[saneindian]

Didn't Sanga as a captain ask Dilshan to keep wickets in a test match when PJ was not available?

[The Outsider]

A minor effect did make a difference to his batting form. I will take that! What makes you say that? __________________________________________________________ The man himself agrees :

There is no one size fits all. Don't expect Dhoni to start averaging 50+ if he gives up keeping.

[CG]

None, that's why saying that DK's record is poor just because he played a lot of away matches and thus he is better than Dhoni doesn't sound that good. Dhoni's record is better because he has done better than him.

He has played Against 2004 Aussie attack then sa 2004 atack at home.Then playes against pak an d wins us a test in 2nd innings .Then opens and gets a100 in sa.Then has a great eng tour,bang tour .He has played far few matches and that too scattered and opening sometimes sometimes no 7.He never had a long run as opener either.

[CG]

Being technically better and not scoring runs are two different things. What's the use of a good technique if you aren't able to score runs and DK bats down the order in FC. Apart from his 160 or 180 + on a pitch that offered nothing to the bowlers he was very, very mediocre. As of now Dhoni is a better batsman than DK, period.

Having a good technique helps in being more effective batsman abroad and in long term .Dinesh karthik has won few matches for india .He last played in 2008 He is easily better than dhoni currently as a batsman and a keeper too.

[CG]

There is no one size fits all. Don't expect Dhoni to start averaging 50+ if he gives up keeping.

True that Sanga bats in the top 5 same with abdv.Its very hard if u are teams best batsman.

[SLICKR392]

Having a good technique helps in being more effective batsman abroad and in long term .Dinesh karthik has won few matches for india .He last played in 2008 He is easily better than dhoni currently as a batsman and a keeper too.

Stats don't agree. In the end that is what matters.

[Crookbond]

Karthik's WK in the last domestic season was abysmal.

[CG]

Hard to prove improvement as a 'keeper: Dinesh Karthik Often criticised for his below-par wicketkeeping at the highest level, Dinesh Karthik has put in hard work over the years. And that was evident in Tamil Nadu's win over Maharashtra in the Ranji Trophy game.

Chennai: One of the highlights of Tamil Nadu’s win over Maharashtra in the Group B Ranji Trophy game was the impressive show by Dinesh Karthik behind the stumps. Karthik, 27, has often been criticised for his lacklustre wicketkeeping, but he has put in the hard yards and looks a better sight with the big gloves now. Karthik, who seems to be enjoying his role more at the moment, spoke to Wisden India before leaving for Delhi for Tamil Nadu’s next Ranji assignment. M. Sanjay, the former Tamil Nadu wicketkeeper and current fielding and wicketkeeping coach for the team, also provided his perspective on what Karthik has worked on. Excerpts: You seem to have improved considerably as a wicket-keeper. Was it a confidence issue in the past that affected your skills as a ‘keeper? Karthik: Confidence was never a factor. I did not concentrate on ‘keeping as much I should have and realised it at the start of the 2011-12 season. Once I started putting in more time in to it, I also started enjoying the craft more and my performance improved. Leading Tamil Nadu in the Ranji Trophy was also another reason. As a leader your mind is entwined with other things as well. Once I stepped down from captaincy I was able to allot more time to my game. Personally I have never been more assured as a ‘keeper than I am at the moment. Your ability as a batsman was never in doubt. It is your wicketkeeping that has often been under the microscope. Did your poor form as ‘keeper also affect you as a batsman at times? Karthik: Sometimes it might look like I train all my energy on batting alone but that is not the truth. Once the word goes around that you are not keeping well then it is not easy to rectify that. Yes I did not enjoy the best of form as a wicketkeeper but I have really worked hard to be where I am today. As a batsman it is easy to prove that I am back in form by scoring runs. But the same cannot be done by a ‘keeper. I might have collected every ball that came my way and each throw that came in but that will have no reflection in the scorecard. It is actually hard to prove you have improved as a ‘keeper unless someone sits through an entire day and watches me go through the grind. What is your honest take on your abilities as a wicketkeeper? Karthik: I am naturally athletic and I have kept wickets from a young age and I back myself to the hilt to do the job well. It has been more a question of working on a few areas and improving. At the highest level, one dropped catch can change an entire series and I have to be honest and admit I did miss a few. But the improvement started happening last year. It is a process, and I am continuing to work on areas that affected me previously. Did you work on any specific area? Karthik: One evolves as ‘keeper and as I said earlier, it’s a constant process. I touched base on all aspects of ‘keeping. I received a lot of help from Samir Dighe [former Indian wicketkeeper] in Mumbai just before the season started. He spent a week with me in Mumbai where the total concentration was on improving my glovework and gathering. I did not even think about batting during that period. Dighe’s inputs were extremely good and it worked well for my confidence. M Sanjay [Tamil Nadu’s fielding coach] also played an influential role in my improvement. Without the guidance from them this would have not been possible. Sanjay, were there too many technical issues with Karthik the wicketkeeper? Sanjay: This might sound elementary but even the biggest players tend to lose sight of basics. It can happen to anyone. Sometimes we tend to pay lesser attention to basics and that played a part in Karthik’s loss of form as a wicketkeeper. A few bad habits can creep in during those times but the good thing is that Karthik has put all that behind him and is enjoying the job more than he ever has. Can you explain briefly on the areas you worked on with Karthik? Sanjay: I started with his legside gathering. He was moving away way too much and that led to the left leg lifting more than what it has to. What happens is you tend to concentrate on balance more than the gather. Karthik was also not allowing the ball into his gloves. Tennis ball catching helped and he has a better feel now. I also noticed he was standing a yard or two back than normal to the medium pacers. Usually this is a confidence issue and we worked on that as well. He is naturally agile, and it is more a question of doing what is required to get back to where he was. The first thing I told Karthik was to back himself as a ‘keeper. Sometimes the expectations on him as batsman can also take a toll on his ‘keeping but he has managed to do justice to both departments wonderfully well. Story first published on: Friday, 23 November 2012 14:24

http://sports.ndtv.com/cricket/features/interviews/item/199693-hard-to-prove-improvement-as-a-keeper-dinesh-karthik