Crookbond Posted February 22, 2013 Posted February 22, 2013 Both in cases of 7/7 London bombing and 9/11 WTC' date=' the CCTV captures helped identifying the terrorists and their network. It will help avoiding future incidents. I don't know how helpful it will be in India.[/quote'] You missed the point. I am not against the use of CCTV's. I am saying that CCTV's should be the last retort. The use of CCTV's is a reactive action rather than proactive which is required in case of dealing with terrorism as the false positive cost is too high in the form of human lives. In other words, I mean that the installation of CCTV's shouldn't fool Indian citizens into believing they are safe. They are as unsafe as they were before the installation of the CCTV. The presence of CCTV's has made a pseudo sense of security in their minds. We should push for better governance in the form of effective law & order under constitutional norms.
seedhi Posted February 22, 2013 Posted February 22, 2013 You missed the point. I am not against the use of CCTV's. I am saying that CCTV's should be the last retort. The use of CCTV's is a reactive action rather than proactive which is required in case of dealing with terrorism as the false positive cost is too high in the form of human lives. In other words' date=' I mean that the installation of CCTV's shouldn't fool Indian citizens into believing they are safe. They are as unsafe as they were before the installation of the CCTV. The presence of CCTV's has made a pseudo sense of security in their minds. We should push for better governance in the form of effective law & order under constitutional norms.[/quote']What do you mean by "last resort" ? Obviously CCTVs can rarely protect against an ongoing terrorist attack. But they can help prevent future ones. This was not a suicide blast, so the terrorists wanted to escape and remain at large. CCTVs can help track them down, and also instill some fear of being caught in their minds. India should ASAP have a CCTV network like London for its big cities. Btw, CCTVs can also help prevent attacks - a proper coordination with intelligence and police can use them to track suspicious persons, during a recce for instance.
Texy Posted February 22, 2013 Posted February 22, 2013 Sushil Shinde believes Police have not failed Wow this guy is some special sort of moron. Wonder how many boot licking did it take for him to get to the Home ministry. Reminds me of another a-hole Gandhi family boot licking corrupt criminal ex home minister, Shivraj Patil. Boy Congress sure knows how to cherry pick these a-holes; who's who of collective rust that's corroding the country from within.
King Tendulkar Posted February 22, 2013 Posted February 22, 2013 Hope you idiots enjoyed your pak series in India. Dont RIP post now. As it will happen again and again until we stand up to the jihadis. Lip service by many in condolences. Action needs to be done, not words. Prime Minister pathetic, they couldn't catch a cold
Crookbond Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 What do you mean by "last resort" ? Obviously CCTVs can rarely protect against an ongoing terrorist attack. But they can help prevent future ones. This was not a suicide blast, so the terrorists wanted to escape and remain at large. CCTVs can help track them down, and also instill some fear of being caught in their minds. India should ASAP have a CCTV network like London for its big cities. Btw, CCTVs can also help prevent attacks - a proper coordination with intelligence and police can use them to track suspicious persons, during a recce for instance. I have written two different posts responding to the very same questions which you have put forth here, let me try it once again. We are talking about CCTV's wrt to terrorism - CCTV's have other benefits but that's not the scope of this discussion. Firstly, CCTV's can only help to nab the terrorists; prevention may be possible but is very difficult to monitor in real time. More so in a country like ours due to the huge population. A real-time monitoring system is not reached the state of the art as yet to detect anomalous movements while in-person monitoring is tedious and almost next to impossible. We also need to understand privacy concerns for a place like India where such CCTV's can be misused. The example of London is not really great because a Metropolitan Police Report in 2008 showed that only 1 crime was solved per 1000 CCTVs. So, empirically and logically CCTV's are pseudo safety mechanisms and not even close to acceptable crime solutions forget terrorism. CCTV's can't help prevent future attacks! The best way to prevent future attacks is to patrol the borders heavily. It is a worthy investment and will reap great benefits unlike the CCTV 'jugaad' solution. For example, the 26/11 attackers used the same route as by the 1993 Bombay blasts. It's like we never learn. Even if the attacks aren't suicide attacks terrorists will run to create strain on public resources like police, courts etc. which lead to economic loss. Finally, while I would encourage the use of CCTV's but I would urge Indian citizens to acknowledge that CCTV's will NOT stop terrorist attacks. The use of CCTV's in London in reducing crime is clearly a correlation and not causation. The actual reduction in crime (and more so terrorism) happens due to plugging in the major loop holes which in India include external plus internal sources. We can first start with external since once the problem is reduced to an internal problem it is more feasible to solve it as it is in our hands.
CSK Fan Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 Hope you idiots enjoyed your pak series in India. Dont RIP post now. As it will happen again and again until we stand up to the jihadis. Lip service by many in condolences. Action needs to be done, not words. Prime Minister pathetic, they couldn't catch a cold Huh, how do you know this was anything to do with Pakistan?
King Tendulkar Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 Huh' date=' how do you know this was anything to do with Pakistan?[/quote'] Yes Yes, they had nothing to do with it. They dont send jihadis over, they dont train and suppport muslims in India either for terror strikes. Must be saffron move , isnt that right digvijay. Or may BJP terrot camps!!!
King Tendulkar Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 Zillions of strikes and murders of indians by pak terrrt, yet you will cling on to the fact if this one is not direct pak strike. Remeber one thing, indian muslim strikes are supported, backed and financed by pak. Hell even uk muslim strikes are done by muslims going to pak for terror training in camps and then going back to uk to kill. Anyhow hope you enjoyed the cricket. RIP the dead
CSK Fan Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 Yes Yes, they had nothing to do with it. They dont send jihadis over, they dont train and suppport muslims in India either for terror strikes. Must be saffron move , isnt that right digvijay. Or may BJP terrot camps!!! Yes, but how do you know this particular attack had anything to do with Pak or Islam?
King Tendulkar Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 Yes' date=' but how do you know this particular attack had anything to do with Pak or Islam?[/quote'] None right now. But I also had not a shred of evidence day after 9/11 and mumbai bombings. But I knew who did it. Anyway keep burying your head in the sand and throwing rose petals. And I am sure you are praying its not pak or muslims so you can keep being PC and enjoy the cricket
The Outsider Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 Hope you idiots enjoyed your pak series in India. Dont RIP post now. As it will happen again and again until we stand up to the jihadis. Lip service by many in condolences. Action needs to be done, not words. Prime Minister pathetic, they couldn't catch a cold So, if the India Pakistan cricket series had not happened in December these attacks would not have happened?
King Tendulkar Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 So' date=' if the India Pakistan cricket series had not happened in December these attacks would not have happened?[/quote'] Cut of all ties, political, social, economic. The lot. No paks allowed. If this had been happening for last 20 years and we had sealed of border. Put enormous diplomatic and world pressure that we are not taking this rubbish. Then I fully believe indian deaths would be seriusly less. Any peope then can do less of their RIP posts and at same time saying lets sing and play with the people behind it. Note after mumbai attacks and when we put all realtions on hold. Attacks did stop for a while. Whats your point. Let pakistan govt/army/isi and pak people(yes pak people fully support and these state sponsored attacks) commit murders against Indians. And we then do nothing, smile and say O well lets sing songs together??? Clearly going to war is not an option and nor is military strikes.
King Tendulkar Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 Why does everyone ignore the fact that these numerous attacks for years are done by pak establishment. This is fully on policy of pakistan to murder indians in terroism. Yet when I say cut ties with pak establishment. Pak Lovers and PC brigade say O know we must sing songs and play together. Then when indians dies say RIP how sad. We must force the issue and say no. Worked on SA aparthied for example. The solution you guys have is say RIP and then throw flowers at them
Texy Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 Why does everyone ignore the fact that these numerous attacks for years are done by pak establishment. This is fully on policy of pakistan to murder indians in terroism. Yet when I say cut ties with pak establishment. Pak Lovers and PC brigade say O know we must sing songs and play together. Then when indians dies say RIP how sad. We must force the issue and say no. Worked on SA aparthied for example. The solution you guys have is say RIP and then throw flowers at them Why blame only Pakistan when vermins like Mulayam Singh Yadav declares Pakistan is our younger brother. If we ought to fight the dogs from across the border, we need to kill the rats from within.
King Tendulkar Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 Why blame only Pakistan when vermins like Mulayam Singh Yadav declares Pakistan is our younger brother. If we ought to fight the dogs from across the border' date=' we need to kill the rats from within.[/quote'] Yes agree. Needs twin strategy. But lets deal with pak as well
The Outsider Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 Whats your point. Let pakistan govt/army/isi and pak people(yes pak people fully support and these state sponsored attacks) commit murders against Indians. And we then do nothing, smile and say O well lets sing songs together??? Clearly going to war is not an option and nor is military strikes. My point is that not playing cricket matches in isolation will have no effect. If there has to be a boycott, it has to be on much more important aspects than cricket first.
King Tendulkar Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 My point is that not playing cricket matches in isolation will have no effect. If there has to be a boycott' date=' it has to be on much more important aspects than cricket first.[/quote'] Er thats what I have been saying for years. Boycott in everything. Social and Economic. Better then just saying RIP and then saying lets love them anyway and sing and dance together.
King Tendulkar Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 No doubt will get banned or mods modify my post as does not fit in with ideolgy of website. Got banned for saying ajmal is a chucker. This site stinks sometimes
The Outsider Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 Er thats what I have been saying for years. Boycott in everything. Social and Economic. Better then just saying RIP and then saying lets love them anyway and sing and dance together. And I agree with that. However, what I don't agree with is cutting off cricket ties when the two countries are actively engaged in trade, have diplomatic ties, have economic ties, grant visas to visitors, play all other sports etc. When all those major things are going on, cutting off cricket ties carries no meaning except feed populism.
BeautifulGame Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 Reading reports it seems like a failure of coordination btw different state police to share their info properly which could have prevented this happening Need to centralise the anti terror forces in states to make them more efficient.
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