Indian Bowling Selection

[rkt.india]

Mostly agree with this considering the squad selected. If we can think outside this squad, I would have: Pankaj Singh instead of Ishant Amit Mishra instead of Harbhajan

Mishra, strictly no. He is another pot belly with no penetration in his bowling.

[Old guy]

It is about shiny and rough side. Round helps because you need deception and for a round arm bowler because of the position of the shiny side of the ball' date=' it dips late and more pronounced that beats the bat at the last time.[/quote'] so they get late swing ? this is interesting cos i dont get it why it happens bu it does happens :wall:

[rkt.india]

so they get late swing ? this is interesting cos i dont get it why it happens bu it does happens :wall:

[Old guy]

no..i know why reverse swing happens wht i wanna know is why some guys swing it from hand and others late... even normal swing..thats a mystery to me

[rkt.india]

no..i know why reverse swing happens wht i wanna know is why some guys swing it from hand and others late... even normal swing..thats a mystery to me

Reverse swing never happens from hand. Conventional swing happens because of seam. But for some bowlers like Waqar it dips very late. Look at this, first dismissal how much is swings and dips in the air. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5Em0LEbhPQ]WAQAR YOUNIS- THE REVERSE SWING KING!!!!!!!! - YouTube[/ame]

[Old guy]

seen all these videos :D why is that dale steyn can swing it so late ..while most other bowlers cant ?

[rkt.india]

seen all these videos :D why is that dale steyn can swing it so late ..while most other bowlers cant ?

Dale Steyn swings it late with new ball. It is because of several factors like his bowling action which is made of outswing and as he bowls so close to off stump. But the most important thing is how much back spin one puts on the ball while delivering the ball. PK and BK also bowl late inswing and also put back spin to the ball like Styen. Umesh does that too. They flick the wrist downwards when swinging the ball to get backspin. Watch Dale Steyn's release of the ball and see that he flicks his wrist.

[rkt.india]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXZQZlDR__I]Aussies try learn Reverse Swing from Waqar Younis - YouTube[/ame]

[Old guy]

Dale Steyn swings it late with new ball. It is because of several factors like his bowling action which is made of outswing and as he bowls so close to off stump. But the most important thing is how much back spin one puts on the ball while delivering the ball. PK and BK also bowl late inswing and also put back spin to the ball like Styen. Umesh does that too. They flick the wrist downwards when swinging the ball to get backspin. Watch Dale Steyn's release of the ball and see that he flicks his wrist.

ok i get it and im sure its repeatable and learn able but it does not makes sense why does back spin causes late swing?:giggle: should not it swing more from beginning ?

[rkt.india]

ok i get it and im sure its repeatable and learn able but it does not makes sense why does back spin causes late swing?:giggle: should not it swing more from beginning ?

It is because ball is rotating backwards and still going forward that is probably a reason and it does not happen always as it needs certain conditions for that. It happens from the hand to as in case of Hilfy because of his grip. Steyn has a kind of action in which his right upper body goes back and forth from close to the stumps which allows him to his bowling arm come around his right shoulder, not over or inside like BK and Ishant, which helps him get outswing from the stumps and the back spin ensures that if conditions favor he gets that late swing.

[bharat297]

Look take the right arm round-arm bowler. Take 2 cases: A) If his wrist is angled left-to-right In this case if the seam is angled the way Malinga has angled it in the pictures you said then putting backspin on the ball (which happens with every delivery) will cause the ball to tail in to the right hander. This is not speculation. Just try it yourself if you don't believe me. With many round-arm bowlers this is a common problem (e.g. Mitchell Johnson but the opposite because he is left-arm) because their wrists are just continuing the angle of the arm. The angled seam makes the inswing more pronounced and obviously this is accentuated when reverse swing is there. But as I said before the same bowler with the same wrist position wont be able to get it to go out. B) If the wrist is upright Then effectively being round-arm hasn't provided them with any point-of-difference. Have a look at the video that you sent from 4:55 onwards. Waqar summed it up perfectly. He used the round-arm for more pronounced reverse swing in and used a higher action for reverse swing out!!! Which is exactly my point ! That a round arm action only makes it more "pronounced" for one particular type of delivery (the inswinger to a right hander). Thank you for that video. Waqar summed up exactly what I was saying perfectly.

[Old guy]

It is because ball is rotating backwards and still going forward that is probably a reason and it does not happen always as it needs certain conditions for that. It happens from the hand to as in case of Hilfy because of his grip. Steyn has a kind of action in which his right upper body goes back and forth from close to the stumps which allows him to his bowling arm come around his right shoulder' date=' not over or inside like BK and Ishant, which helps him get outswing from the stumps and the back spin ensures that if conditions favor he gets that late swing.[/quote'] imo its more to do with grip.. back spin will always be there in case of swing bowling and the reason steyn gets so huge swing can also be cos of that but swinging it late or early imo that has to do more with grip and action also it just comes natural to some bowlers..shami too swings it late while some one like hilfy and even philander ( not seen him swing late i might be wrong ) swing it early

[bharat297]

Have a look at the Simon Jones delivery to Clarke [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4jeQG15QAk]Reverse swing from the 2005 Ashes - YouTube[/ame] That's a perfect example of reverse swing! The shiny side is on the right the seam is pointing towards first slip but it swings in the other way and takes out off stump. The Flintoff one was the opposite. Both right-arm straight arm bowlers.

[rkt.india]

Look take the right arm round-arm bowler. Take 2 cases: B) If the wrist is upright Then effectively being round-arm hasn't provided them with any point-of-difference. Have a look at the video that you sent from 4:55 onwards. Waqar summed it up perfectly. He used the round-arm for more pronounced reverse swing in and used a higher action for reverse swing out!!! Which is exactly my point ! That a round arm action only makes it more "pronounced" for one particular type of delivery (the inswinger to a right hander). Thank you for that video. Waqar summed up exactly what I was saying perfectly.

I wanted to say the same. My point was solely focusing on more pronounced inswing rather than outswing. If one gets that much pronounced inswing, outswing is not needed because even straight deliveries can cause problem. We are not seeing that kind of pronounced inswing much nowadays.

[rkt.india]

imo its more to do with grip.. back spin will always be there in case of swing bowling and the reason steyn gets so huge swing can also be cos of that but swinging it late or early imo that has to do more with grip and action also it just comes natural to some bowlers..shami too swings it late while some one like hilfy and even philander ( not seen him swing late i might be wrong ) swing it early

No. Back spin is not always there. Seam position allows swing, back spin ensures late swing.

[bharat297]

Have a look at 1:20 ... Watson getting it to reverse in with a straight arm [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eht5LfVUgKg]Shane Watson's deadly spell of reverse swing. - Galle 2011. - YouTube[/ame]

[bharat297]

I wanted to say the same. My point was solely focusing on more pronounced inswing rather than outswing. If one gets that much pronounced inswing' date=' outswing is not needed because even straight deliveries can cause problem. We are not seeing that kind of pronounced inswing much nowadays.[/quote'] Ok thank you for saying that. My point was always that round-arm is not necessarily better for reverse swing in general. It's just more pronounced for reverse swing in to a right-hand batsman. But a good swing bowler who can keep the his wrist & seam relatively upright can get it to reverse both ways. That's my point.

[rkt.india]

Have a look at the Simon Jones delivery to Clarke That's a perfect example of reverse swing! The shiny side is on the right the seam is pointing towards first slip but it swings in the other way and takes out off stump. The Flintoff one was the opposite. Both right-arm straight arm bowlers.

Also, in Simon Jones' bowling action his bowling hand comes around right shoulder, not exactly over or inside it. It also helped him

[bharat297]

One of the best examples of reverse swing. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tZqXzb-7iw]clean bowled by reverse swing.avi - YouTube[/ame] Zaheer delivers it with a straight arm too.

[rkt.india]

Ok thank you for saying that. My point was always that round-arm is not necessarily better for reverse swing in general. It's just more pronounced for reverse swing in to a right-hand batsman. But a good swing bowler who can keep the his wrist & seam relatively upright can get it to reverse both ways. That's my point.

My point was about round arm bowler getting more pronounced inswing. Same with Zaheer.