Indian Bowling Selection

[Vanarp22]

Which bowlers should be included for the 2nd Test and why?

[bharat297]

* Bhuvaneshwar Kumar - our best paceman in the current squad (sad isn't it) * Ravichandran Ashwin - do I need to say why? * Pragyan Ojha - a genuine turner of the ball and will be much more effective than Bhajji * Ashok Dinda - we can't keep relying on spin especially as Australia are going to improve against spin, so we need the option of reverse swing and currently Dinda seems a better bet than Ishant (again sad isn't it). It's also expected to be a dry flat pitch with spin coming into it more so by Day 3, so without 2 pacemen our attack will be too one-dimensional on Days 1 and 2. * Ravindra Jadeja - The defensive spinner that can hold down one end while Ojha/Ashwin take turns attacking at the other end. Given it's a flat pitch, we can probably risk his batting again.

[Old guy]

* Bhuvaneshwar Kumar - our best paceman in the current squad (sad isn't it) * Ravichandran Ashwin - do I need to say why? * Pragyan Ojha - a genuine turner of the ball and will be much more effective than Bhajji * Ashok Dinda - we can't keep relying on spin especially as Australia are going to improve against spin, so we need the option of reverse swing and currently Dinda seems a better bet than Ishant (again sad isn't it). It's also expected to be a dry flat pitch with spin coming into it more so by Day 3, so without 2 pacemen our attack will be too one-dimensional on Days 1 and 2. * Ravindra Jadeja - The defensive spinner that can hold down one end while Ojha/Ashwin take turns attacking at the other end. Given it's a flat pitch, we can probably risk his batting again.

i have never seen dinda reverse swing.. have read many times that shami ahmed can reverse the ball and sid kaul is another guy i saw live on tv reversing the ball.. we are missing yadav and zack badly here :((

[bharat297]

i have never seen dinda reverse swing.. have read many times that shami ahmed can reverse the ball and sid kaul is another guy i saw live on tv reversing the ball.. we are missing yadav and zack badly here :((

Oh yeah I know Zaheer, Yadav and Shami would have been better options. I am purely going by the squad. Dinda is not the ideal option, and I wouldn't have had him in my squad in the first place, but I think it's a risk purely going with spin, especially if it's expected to be a flat track and we have to bowl first. Reverse swing is not that hard if you can maintain a good seam position. If Dinda can do that, there's no reason he can't get reverse swing.

[Old guy]

Oh yeah I know Zaheer' date=' Yadav and Shami would have been better options. I am purely going by the squad. Dinda is not the ideal option, and I wouldn't have had him in my squad in the first place, but I think it's a risk purely going with spin, especially if it's expected to be a flat track and we have to bowl first. Reverse swing is not that hard if you can maintain a good seam position. If Dinda can do that, there's no reason he can't get reverse swing.[/quote'] There are other factors too. Like u have to keep it full... Dinda is always short of length even on helpful tracks.. Then there is some bowlers just cant reverse it.. Its not just about seam action alao plays part and its not easy to have such good seam position in first place... Dinda will be useless and will actually get hammered Compared to him even ishant is better:giggle:

[G_B_]

Hyderabad is also Ojha's home ground so he must play

[G_B_]

and whats the status on umesh yadav is he going to be fit for the third test?

[bharat297]

There are other factors too. Like u have to keep it full... Dinda is always short of length even on helpful tracks.. Then there is some bowlers just cant reverse it.. Its not just about seam action alao plays part and its not easy to have such good seam position in first place... Dinda will be useless and will actually get hammered Compared to him even ishant is better:giggle:

Reverse swing is made up to be this mystical science. Mainly by the Australian commentators who still have no idea what it is. They think anything that swings in is reverse. It can also move away too but they don't know that. There's nothing to it really. I get reverse swing quite often in club cricket on weekends. It's actually the easiest of the 3 forms of swing, because it's least dependent on wrist position. You just have to keep the seam upright. But the biggest factor is the condition of the ball. You need to be able to scoff up one side of the ball significantly more than the other and the weight differential through the air causes it to swing towards the shiny side. Of course if you bang it into the deck it's not much help. You still have to pitch the ball up. I must admit, I have not seen much of Dinda at Ranji Trophy but Ishant is struggling at the moment, and I feel it's too much of a risk picking only 1 paceman.

[panther]

Is shami ahmed injured?

[bharat297]

If a bowler can get the seam upright and keep the ball full and the ball is in the right condition, there's no reason they can't reverse it. The difficult part is getting the right disparity between one side and the other, especially when you have some bowlers that don't hit the seam and spinners that land the ball on the wrong side, etc.

[bharat297]

There are other factors too. Like u have to keep it full... Dinda is always short of length even on helpful tracks.. Then there is some bowlers just cant reverse it.. Its not just about seam action alao plays part and its not easy to have such good seam position in first place... Dinda will be useless and will actually get hammered Compared to him even ishant is better:giggle:

Reverse swing is made up to be this mystical science. Mainly by the Australian commentators who still have no idea what it is. They think anything that swings in is reverse. It can also move away too but they don't know that. There's nothing to it really. I get reverse swing quite often in club cricket on weekends. It's actually the easiest of the 3 forms of swing, because it's least dependent on wrist position. You just have to keep the seam upright. But the biggest factor is the condition of the ball. You need to be able to scoff up one side of the ball significantly more than the other and the weight differential through the air causes it to swing towards the shiny side. Of course if you bang it into the deck it's not much help. You still have to pitch the ball up. I must admit, I have not seen much of Dinda at Ranji Trophy but Ishant is struggling at the moment, and I feel it's too much of a risk picking only 1 paceman.

[rkt.india]

Not just that. A bowlers' bowling action also determines the reverse swing. Bowlers who has action like Ishant and BK are less supportive to reverse swing. They may get some but not as pronounced as some with a round armish bowling action. Watched Siddarth Kaul getting some amazing reverse swing in ranji semi final.

[bharat297]

Not just that. A bowlers' bowling action also determines the reverse swing. Bowlers who has action like Ishant and BK are less supportive to reverse swing. They may get some but not as pronounced as some with a round armish bowling action. Watched Siddarth Kaul getting some amazing reverse swing in ranji semi final.

That's a myth. Andrew Flintoff, Simon Jones, Wasim Akram, Zaheer Khan and many others all have got reverse swing before. It's got nothing to do with being round arm. It's about how the ball is released. A right arm bowler with a round-arm action will naturally tail the ball into the right hander (e.g. Malinga) but that's not reverse swing. Many commentators mistake that for reverse swing. Reverse swing is where it swings towards the shiny side of the ball.

[Ankur Upadhyay]

Not just that. A bowlers' bowling action also determines the reverse swing. Bowlers who has action like Ishant and BK are less supportive to reverse swing. They may get some but not as pronounced as some with a round armish bowling action. Watched Siddarth Kaul getting some amazing reverse swing in ranji semi final.

Ya sid kaul can reverse it.. and he bowls at good pace.. he can bowl good yorkers too... he is one of the best fast bowlers we have in our domestic circuit..

[rkt.india]

That's a myth. Andrew Flintoff, Simon Jones, Wasim Akram, Zaheer Khan and many others all have got reverse swing before. It's got nothing to do with being round arm. It's about how the ball is released. A right arm bowler with a round-arm action will naturally tail the ball into the right hander (e.g. Malinga) but that's not reverse swing. Many commentators mistake that for reverse swing. Reverse swing is where it swings towards the shiny side of the ball.

I meant a round armish bowler will get more pronounced reverse swing like Waqar and Shoaib Akhtar used to get. Even Agarkar used to reverse it a long way. Simon Jones was around armish.

[bharat297]

I meant a round armish bowler will get more pronounced reverse swing like Waqar and Shoaib Akhtar used to get. Even Agarkar used to reverse it a long way. Simon Jones was around armish.

First of all Simon Jones was not round armish. It's about as straight arm as you can get. Secondly, it's only more pronouned when talking about reverse swing to a right hand batsman because a right arm round arm bowler will naturally get that tail into the right hand batsman. If that same bowler bowled to a left-hand batsman and tried to reverse it into him (e.g. the way Flintoff did to Katich in 2005) they would struggle. Thirdly, although Waqar had a round-arm action, he kept his wrist upright and that's what enabled him to reverse it both ways. Basically there's a difference between what Waqar was doing in his prime and the natural in-drift that Mitchell Johnson gets to left handers because he bowls round arm. It's ultimately all about releasing the ball with the seam upright (perhaps a slight angle but nothing more)

[Old guy]

That's a myth. Andrew Flintoff, Simon Jones, Wasim Akram, Zaheer Khan and many others all have got reverse swing before. It's got nothing to do with being round arm. It's about how the ball is released. A right arm bowler with a round-arm action will naturally tail the ball into the right hander (e.g. Malinga) but that's not reverse swing. Many commentators mistake that for reverse swing. Reverse swing is where it swings towards the shiny side of the ball.

See like i said there is more to it People with round arm action reverse it more... Then people who are usually swing bowlers find it easier then hit the deck kind bowlers.. I can give u example of morkel and steyn Im not saying u cant reverse otherwise but these guys do it more consistently and ball swings more Problem with dinda is he does not satisfy any of this His length is too short, seam i dont know but he never moved a ball in odis even on good tracks.. And then his action.. I have honestly never seen him properly swing the ball cos of that..

[Old guy]

First of all Simon Jones was not round armish. It's about as straight arm as you can get. Secondly, it's only more pronouned when talking about reverse swing to a right hand batsman because a right arm round arm bowler will naturally get that tail into the right hand batsman. If that same bowler bowled to a left-hand batsman and tried to reverse it into him (e.g. the way Flintoff did to Katich in 2005) they would struggle. Thirdly, although Waqar had a round-arm action, he kept his wrist upright and that's what enabled him to reverse it both ways. Basically there's a difference between what Waqar was doing in his prime and the natural in-drift that Mitchell Johnson gets to left handers because he bowls round arm. It's ultimately all about releasing the ball with the seam upright (perhaps a slight angle but nothing more)

Ok simple question.. How is the release of dinda?

[bharat297]

See like i said there is more to it People with round arm action reverse it more... Then people who are usually swing bowlers find it easier then hit the deck kind bowlers.. I can give u example of morkel and steyn Im not saying u cant reverse otherwise but these guys do it more consistently and ball swings more Problem with dinda is he does not satisfy any of this His length is too short, seam i dont know but he never moved a ball in odis even on good tracks.. And then his action.. I have honestly never seen him properly swing the ball cos of that..

I agree about Dinda's length being too short, but I'm hoping he can learn faster than Ishant. Tbh I'm ok with either but whoever is picked needs to improve. Praying for a speedy recovery for Zaheer or Yadav. But it's not true that people with round-arm actions reverse it more. It's only exaggerated when bowling to right-hand batsman because a right-arm round arm bowler gets natural tail into the right hander and when combined with reverse swing that gets exaggerated. But if that same bowler tried to reverse it in to the left hander, they would struggle. It's merely exaggerated against one type of batsman. Commentators (mainly batsmen) are often confused about reverse swing and think that anything that tails in is reverse, but very often it's just natural tail into the batsman.

[bharat297]

Ok simple question.. How is the release of dinda?

Bad! But from what I've been hearing the bowling coach has been working specifically on the seam positions of BK, Dinda, and Ishant. I'm just hoping Dinda is a faster learner than Ishant.