Dhoni overtakes Ganguly's tally of 21 test wins as captain

[Ultimate_Game]

I've answered your question unambiguously. Can you return the favor? Which was more challenging? Facing WI at Lords in '83 or facing SL at Bombay in '11?

I have answered the question about the 2 World Cups pretty well along with my stand on Dhoni as the "worst captain we ever had" :dontknow:

[DarthSimian]

Dhoni is doing very well with the kind of team he has got. Ganguly led a team of world class players at their peak, while Dhoni inherited them at almost the end of their careers. Given that, Dhoni's captaincy has been amazing and to be respected.

[Subeshkumar]

the numbers are soon going to incerase in their count... Dhoni rocks

[Ultimate_Game]

Nighty nighty folks... it's past 11pm where I am. Pls feel free to enlighten us how cr@p Dhoni has been and how he has been the "worst captain we ever had" despite the evidence/stats I have provided proving to the contrary. But you can't do much when folks have already decided otherwise. I mean if Dhoni's knock of 76* to save the Lords' Test can be run down by claiming he only faced KP, Vaughan and Panesar what can you say. I guess same goes with his near 4000 Test runs @ 40 along with 206 catches and 32 stumpings. And the irony is I am the one branded "intellectually dishonest" :giggle:

[The Outsider]

I have answered the question about the 2 World Cups pretty well along with my stand on Dhoni as the "worst captain we ever had" :dontknow:

I've answered your question unambiguously. Can you return the favor? Which was more challenging? Facing WI at Lords in '83 or facing SL at Bombay in '11?

[Sidhoni]

I've answered your question unambiguously. Can you return the favor? Which was more challenging? Facing WI at Lords in '83 or facing SL at Bombay in '11?

Of course it was the WI lineup which was better. But did India play only the finals that you are comparing the finalists? And if winning the WC at home is not considered as an achievement, then what else is? None of the teams in the past have been able to do it, Dhoni is the first captain ever to win a WC at home and also be the Man of the match. I can't believe that you are trying to demean that WC win to prove that Dhoni is the worst captain ever.

[Crookbond]

It is actually a bit ridiculous to suggest Dhoni is "the worst captain India ever had". He might not be the best or Top 3 or whatever but to suggest that he's the worst is a short-sighted and "familiarity breeds contempt" kind of attitude.

[Raghav_12]

Of course it was the WI lineup which was better. But did India play only the finals that you are comparing the finalists? And if winning the WC at home is not considered as an achievement' date=' then what else is? None of the teams in the past have been able to do it, Dhoni is the first captain ever to win a WC at home and also be the Man of the match. I can't believe that you are trying to demean that WC win to prove that Dhoni is the worst captain ever.[/quote'] Winning WC at home is more like coincidence not some achievement so stop blowing trumphet over that. Very hardly, if ever, a team got to play WC at home when it was among absolutely top teams of worls in ODI's. 75 to 83 - Eng was not really great in ODI cricket 87 - India may be considered good 92 - Admit that Australia was hot contender 96 - Pakistan was poor side 99 - England had no chance 03 - SA was depleted and going through changes 07 - WI (what I can say about that) 11 - India was peaking as a side and got to play at home. Don't you think this stat would have been diffrent if WI had hosted a WC in 70's/ 80' or Aus had hosted a WC in noughties or late 90's. Wining WC is great I agree but winning at home doesn't make it bigger achievements. Statistically speaking also, winning at home would happen 1 in 8-9 attempts assuming all teams are serious contenders. So it is meaningless to talk any other team could not win WC at but Dhoni did.

[saneindian]

He had his moment of brilliance in that test, but no it does not qualify because the team he did it against was not a patch on the Ganguly and Kapil feats I am talking about. South Africa are the number 1 team right now, by a fair distance. Dhoni is expected to pull off a performance against them to qualify in the leading from the front category.

I can understand this argument for batting and bowling. But for keeping how does the strength of opposition matter? In you opinion, should't the quality of dismissals be the sole criteria? Unlike batting or bowling, a tough catch /stumping remains as easy / tough irrespective of the batsman involved.

[Sidhoni]

Winning WC at home is more like coincidence not some achievement so stop blowing trumphet over that. Very hardly, if ever, a team got to play WC at home when it was among absolutely top teams of worls in ODI's. 75 to 83 - Eng was not really great in ODI cricket 87 - India may be considered good 92 - Admit that Australia was hot contender 96 - Pakistan was poor side 99 - England had no chance 03 - SA was depleted and going through changes 07 - WI (what I can say about that) 11 - India was peaking as a side and got to play at home. Don't you think this stat would have been diffrent if WI had hosted a WC in 70's/ 80' or Aus had hosted a WC in noughties or late 90's. Wining WC is great I agree but winning at home doesn't make it bigger achievements. Statistically speaking also, winning at home would happen 1 in 8-9 attempts assuming all teams are serious contenders. So it is meaningless to talk any other team could not win WC at but Dhoni did.

That is the truth. How is it meaningless? Pakistan wasn't the only host of '96 WC, India and Sri Lanka co-hosted along with them and India were contenders for the trophy. You yourself have admitted that India and Aus were contenders for '87 and '92 respectively. So there are about 3-4 instances of the home side being contenders for the WC, this wasn't the only time in the WC history that the home side was a major favorite to win the cup.

[saneindian]

Winning WC at home is more like coincidence not some achievement so stop blowing trumphet over that. Very hardly, if ever, a team got to play WC at home when it was among absolutely top teams of worls in ODI's. 75 to 83 - Eng was not really great in ODI cricket 87 - India may be considered good 92 - Admit that Australia was hot contender 96 - Pakistan was poor side 99 - England had no chance 03 - SA was depleted and going through changes 07 - WI (what I can say about that) 11 - India was peaking as a side and got to play at home. Don't you think this stat would have been diffrent if WI had hosted a WC in 70's/ 80' or Aus had hosted a WC in noughties or late 90's. Wining WC is great I agree but winning at home doesn't make it bigger achievements. Statistically speaking also, winning at home would happen 1 in 8-9 attempts assuming all teams are serious contenders. So it is meaningless to talk any other team could not win WC at but Dhoni did.

A poor and factually incorrect attempt to belittle the achievement. As for the highlighted part, wonder what you have to say about this Winning World Cup is my greatest moment: Tendulkar

[Raghav_12]

A poor and factually incorrect attempt to belittle the achievement. As for the highlighted part, wonder what you have to say about this Winning World Cup is my greatest moment: Tendulkar

You mis-interpreting my post and I hope it is not deliberate. I am not belittling world cup winning. It is great achievement. My point there is, winning it at home doesn't add anything extra to that achievement, which is already very big, though may make it extra special. If India had won 2003 WC, in SA in my opinion that would have been bigger achievement than wining at home. I'll take India's win in 2015 WC in Australia ahead of 2011. Overall, I would easily trade a test series win in Australia or SA with WC championship, even if Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar doesn't agree with me.

[Raghav_12]

That is the truth. How is it meaningless? Pakistan wasn't the only host of '96 WC, India and Sri Lanka co-hosted along with them and India were contenders for the trophy. You yourself have admitted that India and Aus were contenders for '87 and '92 respectively. So there are about 3-4 instances of the home side being contenders for the WC, this wasn't the only time in the WC history that the home side was a major favorite to win the cup.

so there you admit that Dhoni wasn't the first one to win WC at home?? You can't have this argument both ways.

[henrywill5d]

Ganguly was a intelligent captain around the world. Again Dhoni has also done his job perfectly. Both of them increase the reputation of Indian team.

[Sidhoni]

so there you admit that Dhoni wasn't the first one to win WC at home?? You can't have this argument both ways.

What! Sri Lanka played the knockouts in India and Pak and SL hosted very less matches. India under Dhoni was the first team to lift the WC at home.

[saneindian]

You mis-interpreting my post and I hope it is not deliberate. I am not belittling world cup winning. It is great achievement. My point there is, winning it at home doesn't add anything extra to that achievement, which is already very big, though may make it extra special. If India had won 2003 WC, in SA in my opinion that would have been bigger achievement than wining at home. I'll take India's win in 2015 WC in Australia ahead of 2011. Overall, I would easily trade a test series win in Australia or SA with WC championship, even if Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar doesn't agree with me.

Fair enough but if winning a WC at home was easy, many others would have done it. In 1987, Pakistan were no. 2 and the firm favorites alongwith India in 1992, Aussies were no. 1 and the pre tournament favorites in 1996, like in '87 India , then number 2, and Pakistan were pre tournament favorites In 2003, SA were number 2 and favorite esecially fter Aussies lost Warne before the tournament began. In 2011, India were number 2 and obviously were the most likely winners but not many of believed we could win. SL did win the WC but not sure if a team playing its QF, SF and finals away from home would like to see it as a win achieved at home.

[adi B]

Records aside Dhoni to me will always remain a captain with defensive mind set, who never leaves his comfort zone in Test match......ODI/T20 is different story due to its format. Unfortunately none of his team mates looks like taking this mantle from him. A captain that loses 8 matches is not the problem but doing nothing different from 1st Test in Eng to last in Aus is a big problem that will occur again. He should remain ODI/T20 captain but doesn't deserve to be Test captain IMO.

well put

[adi B]

Are you saying India is not the 1st home team to win the WC? Do you want me to show other sources just like I did for KP not bowling in that innings? And if you could answer this question it would be most helpful... do you think Dhoni's near 4000 test runs @ an average of 40 and 206 catches and 32 stumpings have ever helped India at all or Dhoni was all "stat padding" his entire career? Again, what Chappell said was an opinion but the stat regarding India being the 1st team to win a WC at home is a fact. Two different things. I may not agree with an opinion but I can't argue with fact. Coz if your answer is Dhoni only padded his stats throughout there won't be a point to argue since we would be poles apart.

dhoni`s average is 38 odd not 40.it can take a year to improve ur average by even 1 if u have played 110+ innings.with away tours coming and his terrible technique against new ball and swing that avg will come down.

[diga]

Records aside Dhoni to me will always remain a captain with defensive mind set, who never leaves his comfort zone in Test match......ODI/T20 is different story due to its format. Unfortunately none of his team mates looks like taking this mantle from him. A captain that loses 8 matches is not the problem but doing nothing different from 1st Test in Eng to last in Aus is a big problem that will occur again. He should remain ODI/T20 captain but doesn't deserve to be Test captain IMO.

well said... there in lies one of Dhoni's problems

[Number]

Too bad people don't realise the worth of the greatest captain we ever had and ask for his head when he gets whitewashed in meaningless away tours.