16 yr old Sachin vs Richard Hadlee

[harmuk]

There is more talk than action in this video. With all due respect Hadlee looks like a pale shadow of his former self as far as pace is concerned almost at the dead end of his career, not taking anything away from Tendulkar.

[harmuk]

Sachin batting without a helmet aginst Hadlee .. :hatsoff: What speed was Hadlee capable of bowling ?

Hadlee was bowling at the pace what Agarkar perhaps bowls today, in that video.

[SLICKR392]

That seemed like a much lighter bat compared to the one now.

[Crookbond]

There is more talk than action in this video. With all due respect Hadlee looks like a pale shadow of his former self as far as pace is concerned almost at the dead end of his career' date= not taking anything away from Tendulkar.

:agree: He doesn't look that quick for sure.

[Crookbond]

Hadlee was bowling at the pace what Agarkar perhaps bowls today' date=' in that video.[/quote'] Do not demean Ajit Agarkar by comparing him to Hadlee.

[rkt.india]

Some the shots in the video remind me of rohit sharma.

:agree:

[rkt.india]

He was quick in the early 80s. He had one of the fantastic release of the ball . Smooth as silk

Dont think Hadlee every looked like a 90 mph bowler in the videos I have seen him but had a very good action and outswing.

[The Outsider]

Except for early in his career, Hadlee was never considered a very quick bowler though he did retain the ability to put in the occasional fast spell as and when needed. Every bowler even during his peak has poor matches, Steyn does so these days. Watching clips from such isolated matches to arrive at a generic conclusion is not correct. Hadlee remained an effective bowler till the end of his career though not as lethal as in the mid 80s he never became as ineffective as Kapil did towards the end.

[rkt.india]

I did not say he was not a good bowler. His record speaks for himself. I just think a lot of pacers' pace from the past is exagerated by ex-cricketers and writers.

[The Outsider]

I did not say he was not a good bowler. His record speaks for himself. I just think a lot of pacers' pace from the past is exagerated by ex-cricketers and writers.

Don't think many ex-cricketers and writers have extolled Hadlee's pace. At best they would have said that he was really quick early in his career and later on used to deliver the occasional really quick spell. Can you point me where someone has written that Hadlee was a 90 mph bowler or express?

[rkt.india]

Don't think many ex-cricketers and writers have extolled Hadlee's pace. At best they would have said that he was really quick early in his career and later on used to deliver the occasional really quick spell. Can you point me where someone has written that Hadlee was a 90 mph bowler or express?

It is not just about Hadlee. Lot of such people talk about how we dont have any real quick bowler now like in 80s of WI bowler who could bowl 95 mph. That kind of statements are baffling. IMO, Pace was a big deal then and could instil fear in the batsmen's mind but not now. Batsmen now are more suspect against movement rather than just pace.

[The Outsider]

It is not just about Hadlee. Lot of such people talk about how we dont have any real quick bowler now like in 80s of WI bowler who could bowl 95 mph. That kind of statements are baffling. IMO, Pace was a big deal then and could instil fear in the batsmen's mind but not now. Batsmen now are more suspect against movement rather than just pace.

The West Indies bowlers of the 80s could bowl 95 mph. Not all the time and not all of them, but in my view Marshall, Holding, Croft, Patterson, and Roberts could do it. Patterson was really quick and Marshall/Holding could really crank up the pace. In a match at Sharjah Srikkanth hooked Marshall for a four and a six on the first two balls of the match and the third one which bowled Srikkanth was one of the quickest deliveries I've seen going by my naked eye judgment.

[rkt.india]

The West Indies bowlers of the 80s could bowl 95 mph. Not all the time and not all of them, but in my view Marshall, Holding, Croft, Patterson, and Roberts could do it. Patterson was really quick and Marshall/Holding could really crank up the pace. In a match at Sharjah Srikkanth hooked Marshall for a four and a six on the first two balls of the match and the third one which bowled Srikkanth was one of the quickest deliveries I've seen going by my naked eye judgment.

I have only seen Holding who looked to be bowling at that pace, not even Patterson who is talked too much though there are not many videos of him and then later Bishop who could bowl very quick. Marshal was quick but in Steyn range of pace, not Lee or Akhtar like 95 mph. I can tell you the reason why Marshall looked quick too you. The videos I have seen of him, I have found lot of similarities between him and Steyn. They will generally operate at normal pace but suddenly can surprise you with thats that sudden increase in pace surprises not even batsman, but viewers. Same for Roberts. Even Yadav and Ishant have touched 95 mph but it does not mean they are 95 mph bowlers. I only consider Thomson, Lee, Akhtar and Tait as real 95 mph bowlers and to some extent Holding and Bishop who could really bowl quick in his early days. Lillie too could bowl at that pace but for a very brief period till he did not suffer that back injury.

[The Outsider]

I have only seen Holding who looked to be bowling at that pace, not even Patterson who is talked too much though there are not many videos of him and then later Bishop who could bowl very quick. Marshal was quick but in Steyn range of pace, not Lee or Akhtar like 95 mph. I can tell you the reason why Marshall looked quick too you. The videos I have seen of him, I have found lot of similarities between him and Steyn. They will generally operate at normal pace but suddenly can surprise you with thats that sudden increase in pace surprises not even batsman, but viewers. Same for Roberts. Even Yadav and Ishant have touched 95 mph but it does not mean they are 95 mph bowlers. I only consider Thomson, Lee, Akhtar and Tait as real 95 mph bowlers and to some extent Holding and Bishop who could really bowl quick in his early days. Lillie too could bowl at that pace but for a very brief period till he did not suffer that back injury.

You've got to understand the difference between bowling regularly at 90-95 mph and stepping it up to that pace when required. When I say Roberts or Marshall touched that pace it means exactly that over a spell or at the most a session they were in that range. For someone to be an average 90-95 mph pace bowler sounds impossible. Even the names you mentioned were hardly able to sustain that pace. Even Lee on average was slower than Akhtar, but between the two I would always take Lee. I would say Marshall was Lee's pace on average with the lethality of Steyn. Bishop was touted as slower than Patterson. Patterson was seriously quick, quicker than Marshall and Holding for sure. What you described applies to Roberts who would probably be in the 85 range with the ability to crank it up.

[rkt.india]

You've got to understand the difference between bowling regularly at 90-95 mph and stepping it up to that pace when required. When I say Roberts or Marshall touched that pace it means exactly that over a spell or at the most a session they were in that range. For someone to be an average 90-95 mph pace bowler sounds impossible. Even the names you mentioned were hardly able to sustain that pace. Even Lee on average was slower than Akhtar, but between the two I would always take Lee. I would say Marshall was Lee's pace on average with the lethality of Steyn. Bishop was touted as slower than Patterson. Patterson was seriously quick, quicker than Marshall and Holding for sure. What you described applies to Roberts who would probably be in the 85 range with the ability to crank it up.

I am not talking about averaging 95 mph. No bowler can do that even in T20s let alone tests. I am talking bowling 95 mph more often. Like in case example, Yadav, Ishant, Pattinson, Siddle, etc. they too have clocked 95 mph more than one occasions, but it does not make make them 95 mph bowler. The bowlers I named above could bowl 95 mph any day they wanted and not just a few balls in a spell, but multiple balls in an over. Though I would say even quickest of the quickest bowler would struggle to clock 95 mph regularly in a test. I have seen only Shoiab Akhtar clock up 157k in a test match and that too deep into an inning against India in a test series in Pakistan.

[carnish]

I have only seen Holding who looked to be bowling at that pace, not even Patterson who is talked too much though there are not many videos of him and then later Bishop who could bowl very quick. Marshal was quick but in Steyn range of pace, not Lee or Akhtar like 95 mph. I can tell you the reason why Marshall looked quick too you. The videos I have seen of him, I have found lot of similarities between him and Steyn. They will generally operate at normal pace but suddenly can surprise you with thats that sudden increase in pace surprises not even batsman, but viewers. Same for Roberts. Even Yadav and Ishant have touched 95 mph but it does not mean they are 95 mph bowlers. I only consider Thomson, Lee, Akhtar and Tait as real 95 mph bowlers and to some extent Holding and Bishop who could really bowl quick in his early days. Lillie too could bowl at that pace but for a very brief period till he did not suffer that back injury.

What about Bond???

[rkt.india]

What about Bond???

Ya Bond too, forgot him.

[The Outsider]

Though I would say even quickest of the quickest bowler would struggle to clock 95 mph regularly in a test. I have seen only Shoiab Akhtar clock up 157k in a test match and that too deep into an inning against India in a test series in Pakistan.

The fact that you think the last 8-10 years which coincide with when you've watched the bulk of your cricket has produced 80% of the pace bowlers tells me how biased your reasoning is. A period not exactly renowned for it's fast bowling legacy - pace or movement.

[rkt.india]

The fact that you think the last 8-10 years which coincide with when you've watched the bulk of your cricket has produced 80% of the pace bowlers tells me how biased your reasoning is. A period not exactly renowned for it's fast bowling legacy - pace or movement.

I am not saying that. I counted Thomson, Lillie, Holding, Bishop, but Marshall's bowling action does not convince me him to be a 95 mph bowler because I dont think many people can bowl that quick with such bowling action and I have not seen any video where he looked like bowling 95 mph. Even Roach, Edwards, Best, Gabriel all from WI have clocked 95 mph, but I dont consider even them to be 95 mph bowlers because not enough balls at 95 mph range from any of them.

[The Outsider]

I am not saying that. I counted Thomson' date=' [b']Lillie, Holding, Bishop, but Marshall's bowling action does not convince me him to be a 95 mph bowler because I dont think many people can bowl that quick with such bowling action and I have not seen any video where he looked like bowling 95 mph. Even Roach, Edwards, Best, Gabriel all from WI have clocked 95 mph, but I dont consider even them to be 95 mph bowlers because not enough balls at 95 mph range from any of them.

Holding and Bishop were in your "some extent" class and Lillee was in a brief period class.