Random discussion featuring Bongs, marathas and much much more

[Aaku]

lolz ye eastie westie!

[CSK Fan]

Hey, we are dying,according to some, remember ? Not to mention, i already told you- we bengalis have done so much, that we decieded to go on a quadruple generation holiday to cash in all the accrued 'punya' through the mllenias! Btw, how awesome are we ? I knew it would be the wannabe Bongs ( the Tamils) that would've been the next in line to follow in our footsteps!.

You have done jack sh!t. Just resting on the laurels of your ancestors

[Muloghonto]

You have done jack sh!t. Just resting on the laurels of your ancestors

Atleast we have laurels of our ancestors to rest on, unlike the hindistani belt. Except for trying to steal our legacy by stealing the Magadhi empire from us, the rightful descendants of it, you have the Central Asian imimgrant dynasties of the Gatae (Jats) and the Gurgins (Gujjars) to show for. Then the Rajputs, that too as 'heroic, chivalry and honour' masquerading for primitive conservative and third rate power. Outside of that, ye hindistanis have been a big fat zero.

[Muloghonto]

Didn't the british empire ignored Bengalis in recruiting for Indian army? They are no martial race for sure.

We got ignored *AFTER* we incited the 1857 rebellion. Yes, it was us, the Bengal regiment who sparked the rebellion. Prior to that, Bengal regiment was over 50% Bengali and we delivered most of India to the Brits. Thats more 'martial history' in the last 200 years than any other group execpt the Punjabis and the Gorkhas.

[Muloghonto]

Just playing the devil's advocate here. Why would Bengalis/Palas or whatever they were called back then use a loan word for 'pillow' which I'm assuming was a common household feature in India from eons. IIRC, wasn't a pillow of some kind mentioned in the Mahabharata too, where Arjun hides his weapons before he goes incognito for 10 odd years? There must have been a word for it.

Bengali, Hindi, Orya are middle-late Indo-aryan languages, which developed between 800s CE-1100s CE. As such, what loanwords came into these languages is influenced by the events of this period (and later), not what happened prior. I am sure there is a word for pillow in ardhamagadhi but the word got iranic-ized during this period (and later) due to migration of Iranian speakers into Bengal.

And the Kambojas, traversed the entire breadth of the North Indian plains before selling their horses to the Palas. Why is it that no other language or their offshoots have the same word for a pillow? And why wouldn't the people of Bengal, who would have been in closer contact with their immediate neighbours not use their word for 'pillow'.

Actually, Kamboj history of Bengal (along with Cambodia) is a bit 'special'. The Kamboj didnt go traverse the length and breadth of India- they were situated in what would be modern day Chitral, Swat, Nuristan, Kohistan & Kaffiristan regions of Afghanistan & Pakistan. They had trade outposts and relations along the Indus but no real presence east of it. That is, before the Palas & Guptas started to import Kamboj horses en masse, while granting their 'horse lords' land and titles- mostly in Bengal region, particularly because eastern Bengal has had shifting rivers, creating 'new land claims' as the rivers shifted around (Teesta, Mahananda, Karatoya, Brahmaputra & Kosi have changed their courses significantly over the years. While Kosi enters the Ganges in Bihar today, 1500 years ago, it fell into the Brahmaputra along with Teesta and Karatoya. Infact, Bhaktiyar Khilji's accounts clearly mention that Karatoya was three times the width of the Ganges when he invaded Bengal). This is because while India in general is poor for horse breeding, western India still has enough pastures to sustain a decent horse population ( hence the western Indians - the Scythio-Rajputs and their Rajput descendants had the foremost cavalry amongst the desis), eastern India is utterly devoid of pastures, while the significantly greater humidity meant horses were prone to get sores, worms and skin fungus. This meant that Bengal dynasties, particularly the Palas, were completely dependent on Kamboj lords for importing horses, as the Scythio-Rajput immigrants from central Asia ( the Gujjar-Pratiharas) had locked off western India from the Magadh-Vangadesh power base. This lead to a 'special arragement' between Dharmapala, the 2nd emperor of Pala dynasty and the Kambojs, which lead to the Kamboj & Kabul shahis being allied/vassals to the Pala dynasty: In exchange for horses and support against the Gujjars, the Lords of Gauda would allow the Kamboj lords to settle in Bengal. Much later, during the reign of Genghis Khan, the Kamboj fled across the indus into Punjab but prior to this, historically and archaeologically, the only major Kamboj presence in India (that is, outside their core territorries outlined above) was in Bengal. Since this coincides with the rise of late Indo-Aryan languages (Hindi, Bengali, Orya,etc), Bengali language got Iranic loanwords via the Kamboj, who were Iranic speakers. The events of the following centuries only accelerated the loans of Persian into Bengali, as wave after wave of Afghan immigration arrived into Bengal. One major reason why the Afghans were keen to settle Bengal and not the higher Indo-Gangetic plains (until much later), was due to the already established track record of Kamboj settlement into Bengal.

Generally speaking, loan words seep into a language, when there is no local equivalent for the word. Eg: It was the Portuguese who introduced potato to the Konkan coast of India and the word for potato in Marathi/Konkani is the Portuguese word for potato. That doesn't seem to be the case here.

This is true for items, but loan words that are nouns tend to seep into any culture due to a host of reasons- from cultural pressure, nuevo-fashion of the elites, etc. The word 'kursi' in Hindi and 'chair' in Bengali crept in not because we guys never figured out to put 4 sticks on the back of a flat piece to sit on, but because of the abovementioned reason.

[Lurker]

^ Bongs have traditionally had very strong necks and no need for pillows.

:beee: One of the many contributions of Bongs have been sleeping newborn kids on pillows of mustard so their head gets perfectly shaped. Ask SachinLara to shave his head and send a picture to you, if you dont beleive me. Incidentally this practice is also followed in Tennessee, thus proving that rednecks are direct descendants of Bongs.

[Lurker]

Bengali is a descendant language of Ardhamagadhi- that makes us the descendants of Magadh culturally. But there are loanwords in Bengali and the high prevalence of Iranic loanwords are predating the islamic period, from the period of the Palas, Guptas and even further back, possibly the Kushan period.

So long as your argument is that Bengalis have descended from Magadh, and not the other way aroud :winky: , it is all good

[Muloghonto]

But doesn't that mean you and your generation have contributed zilch to anything and the chest thumping you are doing is solely based on the achievement of your ancestors? What went wrong Bengal? Once you were the bastion of forward thinking, intellectualism and had visionaries like Bose. Today's generation is among the laziest people in the world. Just people resting on past laurels, lots of big headed talk but absolutely no inclination for hard work. Most youth are content with government jobs where you don't have to lift a finger. You are 30 years behind any other state in terms of outlook towards industrialization. The culture of going late to office, coming early, wasting hours in adda. That's what youth is today. I am sorry, claiming the past achievements as your own is like every Muslim claiming he personally built the Taj mahal. Stop living in the past, your ancestors bust their @@ss for Bengal. What are you doing?

1. What i am doing, is busting my balls for the new world. 2. Bongs had some tough times to recover from if you recollect: in 1943-1946, thanks to the British epic fail at logistics, we lost 15% of our population due to starvation ( Bengal famine), which is still to date the largest famine to've hit the Indian subcontinent in the last 100 years. Plus we lost about 80% of our land by cutting off Jharkand & Bangladesh from us. Even before the CPM came to power, we were consistently ignored by Nehru and the central government, who chose to improve the hindistani belt and the southie regions. The only regions more ignored than Bengal (and thus, more prone to seperatist sentiments) in India are the seven sister states. Still, during this period, we've managed to churn out world class intellectuals, consistently have higher literacy rates than the hindi belt and above average growth rates. Yes, we could've done a lot better and we did a lot better when we were the administrative center of India, but given the horrid turns of the last century, we havnt done too badly. As i noted earlier, nobody has a permanent golden age of doing amazingly well. The Bengal-Jharkhand region ( Magadh-Vangadesh region) had been the apex cultural, financial and military machine of India from 500s BCE to 900s CE. From 1400s CE to 1850s, the Bengal region was the single largest contributor to the imperial coffers of the Delhi Sultans, Mughals and the British- goes to show that for most of recorded history, we've been above the development curve of India to contribute heavier taxes. Obviously, we are/were due for a relatively barren period. Given that we still tend to value education higher than most Indians ( only the Tamils & Gujjus tend to be as academically driven as us), its a matter of time before we are amongst the top groups in India again.

[Muloghonto]

So long as your argument is that Bengalis have descended from Magadh' date=' and not the other way aroud :winky: , it is all good [/quote'] Well, as i noted earlier, Magadh encompassed parts of Bengal in its core territorries in its earliest records, making us the same people IMO.

[Lurker]

1. What i am doing, is busting my balls for the new world. 2. Bongs had some tough times to recover from if you recollect: in 1943-1946, thanks to the British epic fail at logistics, we lost 15% of our population due to starvation ( Bengal famine), which is still to date the largest famine to've hit the Indian subcontinent in the last 100 years. Plus we lost about 80% of our land by cutting off Jharkand & Bangladesh from us. Even before the CPM came to power, we were consistently ignored by Nehru and the central government, who chose to improve the hindistani belt and the southie regions. The only regions more ignored than Bengal (and thus, more prone to seperatist sentiments) in India are the seven sister states. Still, during this period, we've managed to churn out world class intellectuals, consistently have higher literacy rates than the hindi belt and above average growth rates. Yes, we could've done a lot better and we did a lot better when we were the administrative center of India, but given the horrid turns of the last century, we havnt done too badly. As i noted earlier, nobody has a permanent golden age of doing amazingly well. The Bengal-Jharkhand region ( Magadh-Vangadesh region) had been the apex cultural, financial and military machine of India from 500s BCE to 900s CE. From 1400s CE to 1850s, the Bengal region was the single largest contributor to the imperial coffers of the Delhi Sultans, Mughals and the British- goes to show that for most of recorded history, we've been above the development curve of India to contribute heavier taxes. Obviously, we are/were due for a relatively barren period. Given that we still tend to value education higher than most Indians ( only the Tamils & Gujjus tend to be as academically driven as us), its a matter of time before we are amongst the top groups in India again.

Your heart is in the heart place, but your assertions are all wrong. :bootyshake: :bootyshake: The decline of West Bengal has many reasons. One of which is the putting themselves on a high pedestal by so called bhadralok. In many ways this simple cultural habit of West Bengal trigged Naxalism, that has now spread all over the nation. History of Naxalbari should tell all you need to know about how bhadraloks behaved back then, even now. The decline of West Bengal, specially Calcutta, is one that should be definitely discussed. In many ways this has directly coincided with the decline of Eastern region as such. Some of that is down to conspiracy by Southies (TTK comes to mind). Some of that is down to moving capital from Calcutta to Delhi (is it only a century ago when that happened?). Some of that is down to Brits choosing to push certain other factions(read Punjabis) as a bullwark to Nationalist Bengalis, and others. Somehow Indians tacidly agreed to all of that, and continue to do so. I mean it is not exactly that a Kannadiga or a Jatt is asking why was Calcutta robbed of being the National Capital? And why was it not moved back in 1947? Jala hai jism jehan dil bhi jal gaya hoga kuredate ho jo ab raakh justazu kya hai?? :nervous:

[Muloghonto]

Your heart is in the heart place, but your assertions are all wrong. :bootyshake: :bootyshake: The decline of West Bengal has many reasons. One of which is the putting themselves on a high pedestal by so called bhadralok. In many ways this simple cultural habit of West Bengal trigged Naxalism, that has now spread all over the nation. History of Naxalbari should tell all you need to know about how bhadraloks behaved back then, even now.

i fail to see how a grassroot communist movement ( Naxalism) can be inspired by neuvo-cultured 'Desi gentleman' complex, which is as borguise as it gets. Thats like saying Lenin took his inspiration from the ulra-elite Boyars of Russia. Naxalism has its roots in the Bengal famine and the fact that Bose was left leaning. The leftists have always been popular in Bengal due to their association with Bose and milking their 'Bose legacy': even prior to CPM comming to power, CPM and Forward Bloc were #3 and #2 in state elections. IMO, the biggest trigger for the Naxalbari movement was the poverty of Bengal, triggered by the Bengal famine, along with immigration from Bangladesh further 'slum-ifying' Kolkata and the consistent 'adopted child' treatment of Delhi in terms of investment. All three combined, along with Bose's leftist legacy = huge grassroot discontentment against the 'Bhodrolok' elites of Kolkata and communist sentiments.

The decline of West Bengal, specially Calcutta, is one that should be definitely discussed. In many ways this has directly coincided with the decline of Eastern region as such. Some of that is down to conspiracy by Southies (TTK comes to mind). Some of that is down to moving capital from Calcutta to Delhi (is it only a century ago when that happened?). Some of that is down to Brits choosing to push certain other factions(read Punjabis) as a bullwark to Nationalist Bengalis, and others. Somehow Indians tacidly agreed to all of that, and continue to do so. I mean it is not exactly that a Kannadiga or a Jatt is asking why was Calcutta robbed of being the National Capital? And why was it not moved back in 1947?

Host of reasons: 1. Jealousy of the Southies 2. Bengal famine 3. Loss of key territorries 4. Definitive 'blackballing' by the Brits. This, i cannot stress enough. They already tried to partition Bengal in 1905 and were consistently downgrading development in Bengal through the whole post 1850s period. It may sound 'Bong supremacy theory' but even my mind was blown when i visited Kalapani and found out that over 60% of 'active dissidents' messing with British government were Bongs. For every Bhagat singh, we have 10 Khudiram Bose. Yet, every kid in India knows of Bhagat Singh, but not of Khudiram Bose, Bipin Behari Ganguli, Bagha Jatin, Pritilota Wadedar, etc. Part of it has been the 'ignore the Bong, promote the hindi-punjabi' policy of the center. 5. Poverty stricken Bengal in the 1950s due to immigration from Bangladesh, Bengal famine and the grassroot popularity of communism. Did you know that while Pakistan contributed 3x the refugees into India than Bangladesh, India spent 20x in rehabilitating the 'Pakistani arrived Hindus' than the 'East pakistani arrived Hindus' ? Thats, for every $1 spent to provide for the displaced hindu Bengali, Delhi spent $6.50 to provide for the displaced Punjabi/Sindhi. 6. Loss of priviledges from losing out on capital terrirtorry satus. 7. Silting up of the Bhagirathi ( Hoogly/Indian arm of Ganges) lead to loss of revenue for Port Authority of Kolkata & strategic considerations, moving the focus to Diamond harbour.

Jala hai jism jehan dil bhi jal gaya hoga kuredate ho jo ab raakh justazu kya hai?? :nervous:

Yaar, i've been gone from India almost 25 years, my urdu is very patchy (spoke it freely due to Bihari friends in Kolkata back then). Last line i cannot understand. Help please ?

[Lurker]

4. Definitive 'blackballing' by the Brits. This, i cannot stress enough. They already tried to partition Bengal in 1905 and were consistently downgrading development in Bengal through the whole post 1850s period. It may sound 'Bong supremacy theory' but even my mind was blown when i visited Kalapani and found out that over 60% of 'active dissidents' messing with British government were Bongs. For every Bhagat singh, we have 10 Khudiram Bose. Yet, every kid in India knows of Bhagat Singh, but not of Khudiram Bose, Bipin Behari Ganguli, Bagha Jatin, Pritilota Wadedar, etc. Part of it has been the 'ignore the Bong, promote the hindi-punjabi' policy of the center.

Why was that a surprise to you?? These are historical facts afterall. Untill language became a bane of Indian society Bengal influence was all the way from NEastern part to Uttar Pradesh. Bihar is heavily influenced by Bengal (Durga Puja is the numero uno festival alongside Chatth, Holi/Diwali/Janashtami dont even come close) and Bengal has its own influence from Bihar. BC Roy used to put Patna as his local address. Ashok Kumar was born in Bhagalpur. Subhas Bose in Cuttack. It is when Bengalis started going back to Bengal, thats where their influence started to diminish in these states. But I digress. Here are some thoughts by Wall Street Journal on why capital was moved to Delhi.

In a speech to the House of Lords, Curzon singled out why the government was rushing. “They desire to escape the somewhat heated atmosphere of Bengal,” he told the assembled grandees.

http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2011/11/11/why-delhi-the-move-from-calcutta/ British couldnt wait to get out of Calcutta as it was becoming increasingly Nationalist, and moved up North which was not as much opposed to them. Yes Northies have always had a thing for Brits :winky: That said it is a weird kind of poetic justice. Afterall Bengalis were also the first lot to cast their vote with British, adopting their language etc. One of the few names that were taught to us in school days was that of SN tagore, and SN Banerjee. Both having been one of the first Indians to crack ICS. Never understood why that was a big deal working for Brits. Ah well!

[Muloghonto]

Why was that a surprise to you??

What i did know, is that we Bongs did a lot for the independence. What surprised me, is that we didn't just do a lot- we practically carried the whole team. In cricketing terms, 'team India independence' had one Sachin Tendulkar and 10 Kenyans. That is what surprised me. Don't get me wrong- a lot of intellectuals to the independence movement came from all over the country and their contributions were invaluable. What grates me, is that not only did we(Bongs) contribute more intellectual 'bhashan-giri' netas than the rest, we practically ran the whole 'quit India' movement from the very beginning. Not by joining misls of protesters, but by actually commiting civic disobedience and obstruction of governance. What we did was make life hell for the Brits- we killed their soldiers, we blew up their supply wagons, we openly defied court orders that were discriminatory, we sabotaged them from within- we did everything that got serious jail terms. This is why Kalapani is practically Bengal High prison if you see how many of us did it. Yet, ask an average Indian about the protestors and shaheeds and you get 'Bhagat Singh' and 'Mangal Pandey'.

That said it is a weird kind of poetic justice. Afterall Bengalis were also the first lot to cast their vote with British, adopting their language etc. One of the few names that were taught to us in school days was that of SN tagore, and SN Banerjee. Both having been one of the first Indians to crack ICS. Never understood why that was a big deal working for Brits. Ah well!

The big deal was, these two were smart, articulate, concise and educated enough to crack even the most racist institutions in this planet's history. Also, the big deal is, it is because of these pioneers - those of us who saw what greatness the Brits had to offer ( governance, taxation, educational principles, philosophy,etc) that we were able to become a modern half-decent nation. All the politics aside, the simple fact is, before the Brits came and we aped them in governance philosophy & instutitional setups, we were a feudal backwater, with nary a hindu, muslim or buddhist with a half-decent idea of how a progressive society is set up at the very basic. Those concepts had died a final death in India when Vijayanagara fell in 1500s. They were already mostly dead by 1250s. The other thing that grates me, is that we Indians have started putting nationalistic pride over good logic. It is very fashionable to demonize the Brits as Satan spawns who only raped our nation and did nothing more. The excuse is, they were not 'intentional' about any good they did, but then again, intentions are irrelevant when balanced against the outcome. It is inherently 'commie/pc/imperialist' to think along the lines of 'thank God we got influenced by European institutions' that brought forth modernism. All the nations that are a success story today are from European template. Yes, we might've gotten there sooner if some unfortunate things didn't happen (infighting between us, for starters), we might've gotten there ahead of the Euros, as we were ahead of their curve for the longest time but fact is- it died. Some our fault, some not ours. Because really- if it wernt for the ones who aped the good that the western governance and institutional structure had to offer, we would be just another dictatorship of insanity with messed up value systems that put ideological good over human good. Or a psuedo-slavery based materialist society like China.

[Lurker]

What i did know, is that we Bongs did a lot for the independence. What surprised me, is that we didn't just do a lot- we practically carried the whole team.

No you didn't, that is a hyperbole. This is where your assertion starts taking the color of jingoism.

Yet, ask an average Indian about the protestors and shaheeds and you get 'Bhagat Singh' and 'Mangal Pandey'.

Mangal Pandey and Bhagat Singh have their own place in Indian freedom movement pantheon. Just as Rasbihari Bose and Beni Madhav (or as we Bihari called him Beni Madho) do. Which circle do you move in that talks of one and not the other?? You probably should keep better company lol. Personally I adore Azaad and Bismil, does not mean I have any less appreciation for Khudiram Bose and Praful Chaki.

The big deal was, these two were smart, articulate, concise and educated enough to crack even the most racist institutions in this planet's history.

By the same token many Sardar, Pathan and Gurkhas were absorbed in British Army to fight Bihar-UP-Bengal triumvite. Does not qualify them as martial race (for me). It is the same story, get over it. Yes I absolutely appreciate the intellactual smartness of these individuals. I do not appreciate how this only led to McCaulay's growth of pan English across India, both linguistically as well as militarily.

[Muloghonto]

No you didn't' date=' that is a hyperbole. This is where your assertion starts taking the color of jingoism. [/quote'] I digress. When its one group of people that represent 15% of the nation's population ( Bengalis in British India) but represent over 60% of the criminally charged for obstruction of government, that is pretty close to carrying the whole team. It is not a question of appreciation, it is a question of knowledge. My gripe is not that i dont appreciate Bhagat Singh, its that Bhagat Singh was no extraordinary man by the standards of those days- he was one of hundreds who did exactly the same thing. But the plethora of Bong 'Bhagat Singhs' are completely unheard of. Perhaps because i am in Canada/Washington state and perhaps because practically 9 out of 10 desis i come across are either Punjabis or Gujjus, but whatever it is, they hardly know anything of what we Bongs did for independence, nevermind the fact that we paled everyone into insignificance in every front leading to independence. I had the same impression when i lived in Delhi decades ago- the hindistanis only care about hindistani heroes and the motto is 'passive jihad everything that is not hindi-stani'. The intellectual smartness was a secondary point. The primary point, was it is because of these overacheving & intellectually honest personalities ( read: non jingoistic) that we absorbed the culture and ethos of European civilization, that is the template of every single successful society today. Had we not had these 'English imitaters', imitating all that is good in the English (European) society and trickling it down to India, we'd be just another asian nation ruled by a-holes. Either based on jihadi principles or on psuedo-slavery like China. I don't find it a mere coincidence that India is the one of only two major Asian nation to qualify for a civilized society ( Japan is the only other one) and the difference between these two successful & civilized asian societies and the rest, is that these two openly adopted British/European principles whie the others were too busy being jingoistic about it. I thank the so-called 'McCaulays' for adopting the ethos that make a modern society work. Ethos that were completely absent in Indian culture when the Brits came ( don't cite me what our long-distant ancestors did, they were long dead and forgotten for hundreds of years. What we Indians were, when the Brits showed up, were wife burning casteist barbarians or the usual ulema of jahilliyat). Thank them for seeing past jingoistic lines, thank them for providing English as a fundamental language in modern India. It is because of these 'McCaulays' that we have English institutions in the nation, that enables the IIT/IIM folks to come in and transition seamlessly into America. It is because of these 'McCaulays' that the IT phenomenon is Indian and not Chinese (who were too busy being jingoistic to learn the lingua franca of the world). And it is because of these McCaulays that India is still a multi-ethnic and multi-cultural civilization, not the cultural despotate of hindistanis, like how China is the cultural despotate of the Han. Give me those 'McCaulays' over the idiot with a pointy stick and a pointy beard who's 'achievements' are as superficial as a 5 year old's understanding of the Mahabharata. PS: I know it is a sensetive subject and i know Indians are generally ( particulary of this generation) too jingoistic to see reason. But if you have the objectivity to compare the Marathas, the Mughals, the Sikhs, the Nizam and the British(the major polities of India in the mid 1700s), while looking up facts of history, you will find a very compelling case for 'the Brits were the best of that lot'. Any sane person(non-jingoistic) who's researched Maratha history, should be thankfful that those backward feudalistic tribal savages were not the ones who inherited India. But when objectivity is lost between jingoism and religious irridentism, we get such nonsensical views as 'Maratha, the last heroic civilized empire of India' and BS. Whereas, i would rather be ruled by Abdali than the Marathas- atleast Abdali was honest and didn't go around genociding his own like the Marathas did.

[JourneyMan]

Someone put too much masala in this dude's fish curry

[Yoda-esque]

Someone put too much masala in this dude's fish curry

Bong Zaid Hamid..

[Lurker]

I digress. When its one group of people that represent 15% of the nation's population ( Bengalis in British India) but represent over 60% of the criminally charged for obstruction of government, that is pretty close to carrying the whole team.

Where do you pull those numbers from? :giggle: You are putting some numbers to over-extend your argument. I doubt any (well read) Indian doubts the contribution of Bengal in growth of Indian Nationalism. What is doubtful is to call it as carrying the team. Nothing like that happened.

It is not a question of appreciation, it is a question of knowledge. My gripe is not that i dont appreciate Bhagat Singh, its that Bhagat Singh was no extraordinary man by the standards of those days- he was one of hundreds who did exactly the same thing. But the plethora of Bong 'Bhagat Singhs' are completely unheard of.

Why are you overly sensitive about Bong Bhagat Singh in the first place? Bhagat Singh did what he did, as did Mangal Pandey, for Bongs and Punjabis and Purabias. Clearly Mangal Pandey was not fighting only for the Purabias, nor was Bhagat Singh fighting only for Sikhs. And in both cases they made the supreme sacrific. Why are you worried about ethnicizing them? With regards to lack of knowledge on Bengali heros, that is true for folks who do not know Indian history. Those who do know will know Rasbihari Bose and Bagha Jatin. Subhaschandra Bose is perhaps the most celebrated Indian revolutionary. And Bankim Chandra's Bande Mataram is our National song. What are you overly worried about :bootyshake:

[Desi Cartman]

^ how does it matter anyway. My grandpa fought in azad hind fauj after quitting his job as principal of a school. I am proud that he had guts to do something like that but how does it matter if my padosi knows about my grandpa's sacrifice and daring ? If one is proud of Sikh or Bongs then be proud but its not that everybody around you should know all the facts and should appreciate it and even if they do, our generation doesnt get any credit for it.

[punjabi_khota]

I like how he has adopted and thrown away the great Bihari-Magadhi-Oriya-Assam->Bengali connection on his whim. When Bihari kings were doing great, he counted them in as Bengali ancestors :phehehe: . But in the modern times, since Biharis/Oriya did not win Nobel prize/had 'intellectual achievements' such as first IAS/or were not hanged in Kala pani en-masse, he cooly states only 15% (i.e. bengali only) population was doing the great work for the country. :hahaha: Having your roshgulla and gulping it too Either you claim the whole Bihari-Magadhi-Oriya-Assam-Bengali bhai-bhai connection for eternity or you don't. So if the greatest kings were bengali via Bihari connection, then the 15% thing doesn't stand when you count the Bihari-Magadhi-Oriya-Assam-Bengali population, whether it is the number of Nobel prize winners or IAS or number of freedom fighter per capita