Best Indian batsmen overseas

[Lurker]

I have seen many bad attempts at rewriting histories but none have been so abominably low and vitiated as above ones. When Geroge Orwell had written that who controls the present controls the past, he wouldn't have thought people would literally try to do that at individual level that too so crudely and amateurishly. Following are the numbers from the time Sachin came on to the scene (Nov 1989) since start of England series, (May 96)where some experts feel he announced himself first time. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;spanmax1=01+Jan+1996;spanmin1=15+Aug+1989;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting Sachin 2483 @52 Azhar 2408 @47 Manju 1684 @40 Sidhu 1671 @43 Prabhakar 1514@32 Kambli 1084 @ 54 and what do we conclude ? 1. Azhar, Kambli and Sidhu were much more dominant than Sachin on test scene 2. Sachin wasn't mainstay of indian test batting. I am enlightened and liberated today to know such profound evidences of rationality. Guys, we know agendas, but atleast try to put some veneer to make them sound like arguments. And yes, before someone tries to make a come back saying that numbers don't tell complete story. I would say, yes, they don't. Sachin domination in Indian test line up was way more than what these numbers suggest. Period.

Awwww now that Raghav has uncovered the plot/agenda :hysterical: Raghav miyaan, please note that StatsRock saab has mentioned clearly that tendulkar edges Gavaskar (albeit by a small margin). Also, which stats do you look at? Azhar had well over 4000 runs by 1996 :--D

[Lurker]

My objection was to the point that trio of Sidhu' date=' Kambli, azhar was [b']much dominant than Sachin or Sachin wasn't even mainstay of Indian batting. I agree with Azhar played very well in period we are discussing. But his complete failure in SA 92 and no other good innings outside Adelaide test on lengthy Australian series (91-92) had put him behind. He was hugely successful on Pakistan, NZ and Eng tours, but during these tours Sachin wasn't compared with Azhar and Azhar was undoubtedly no 1 Indian bat at the start of Australia series. So if you do numbers from late 91 to end of 95 Sachin would be far ahead than Azhar. I liked Azhar once upon a time, but I have no doubt that by end of 95, Sachin had assumed role of India's no. 1 test bat beyond any recognized competition. Not to say he was always without any support, but he was no 1 by margin, both in perception and in numbers.

Isnt that what is being said here? By mid 90s Sachin was the definite Indian bat? Or did you want me to spell the day and hour and minutes too bhakt-jan :giggle:

[Raghav_12]

Isnt that what is being said here? By mid 90s Sachin was the definite Indian bat? Or did you want me to spell the day and hour and minutes too bhakt-jan :giggle:

What is being said is this? :giggle:

but he was hardly the mainstay till about mid 90s.

Do you see I can also use smiley in my post? Do you feel it increased weight of my argument? Not only your arguments are childish, your style of arguing is even more childish.

[Lurker]

What is being said is this? :giggle: Do you see I can also use smiley in my post? Do you feel it increased weight of my argument? Not only your arguments are childish, your style of arguing is even more childish.

Oh dont worry about me Raghav, you can keep doing pardafaash of me :hysterical: To my point, yes he was not the mainstay. I would be super interested in seeing how a difference of 4 runs (by your stats, which are retarded as Azhar was well beyond 4000 runs and not 2000 odds in 1996 as pointed by you) makes him anything as a mainstay. Not to mention by this time Azhar had been leading India, across two world cups too :--D

[Sachin=GOD]

don't you people go to sleep just by writing these loooong boring posts again and again and again in different threads :phehehe:

[Lurker]

don't you people go to sleep just by writing these loooong boring posts again and again and again in different threads :phehehe:

Not me. :beee: My posts arent boring, unless I am replying to Raghav...which is when I use smiley :phehehe:

[Sachin=GOD]

Not me. :beee: My posts arent boring, unless I am replying to Raghav...which is when I use smiley :phehehe:

your posts are not boring when they are about songs and your Dilli diaries but when you get into one of these "debates" then the posts are loooong and boring :--D

[StatsRock]

Here's a comparison of the 4 Krumbler-Krackers in the rubbers they played together till 95. The only reason I said Azhar/Kambli/Sidhu were more dominant had to do with their overall record, as in Tests there wasnt much to distinguish between the 4. Okay, I'll admit to being a bit harsh on SRT :) Despite all that, there's really nothing in these numbers to call SRT the "mainstay" of Indian batting as Raghav alleges. Not until 1996 by any means. ENG 92/93(Nothing to choose between the 4) 3 317 224 105.66 1 VK 3 302 165 100.66 1 SRT 3 214 182 71.33 1 MA 3 235 106 58.75 1 NSS ZIM 92/93(Extra pt to VK for cashing in) 1 227 227 227.00 1 VK 1 62 62 62.00 0 SRT 1 61 61 61.00 0 NSS 1 42 42 42.00 0 MA SL 93/94 SL(Nothing to choose) 3 203 104* 101.50 1 SRT 3 249 125 83.00 1 VK 3 225 104 75.00 1 NSS 3 97 50 32.33 MA SL 93/94 Ind(Extra pt to MA for 2 tons) 3 307 152 102.33 2 MA 3 266 124 88.66 1 NSS 3 244 142 81.33 1 SRT 3 144 82 48.00 VK NZ 93/94(Nothing to choose) 1 63 63 63.00 MA 1 108 98 54.00 NSS 1 54 43 54.00 SRT 1 28 19 14.00 VK WI 94/95(Extra pt to SRT for volume) 3 402 179 67.00 1 SRT 3 224 107 37.33 1 NSS 3 178 97 35.60 1 MA 3 64 40 10.66 VK NZ 94/95(Extra pt to MA for blinder) 3 122 87 61.00 MA 2 74 41 37.00 NSS 3 58 52* 29.00 SRT 3 55 28 27.50 VK BTW, you might want to look at the link below too. But I'm not going to dwell much on it :D http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;spanmax1=01+Jan+1996;spanmin1=01+Dec+1989;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting

[StatsRock]

Do you see I can also use smiley in my post? Do you feel it increased weight of my argument?

Absolutely not. I personally see a lot of these sarcasm-hinting smileys being used as a last resort on such forums by victim-complex kids if they cant come up with decent arguments. You should cut down on those. And not everyone who disagrees with you has an agenda :)

[StatsRock]

And finally, its essential to know(much more than from digging up past numbers) what cricket-watchers felt in THOSE days. I dont recall a single significant article between 91-95 callign SRT the bulwark on Indian batting. There were articles in 1992 praising him for being booked by Yorkshire but they later went on to say he wasnt ready yet after he went on to fail in county cricket. The first big article was by R.Mohan after that Edgbaston 122 when he talked about the boy becoming a man. Apart from that, dont recall anything.

[Crookbond]

BTW, you might want to look at the link below too. But I'm not going to dwell much on it :D http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;spanmax1=01+Jan+1996;spanmin1=01+Dec+1989;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting

Just sorted this link on averages. Here's the result - No code has to be inserted here.

[Raghav_12]

Here's a comparison of the 4 Krumbler-Krackers in the rubbers they played together till 95. The only reason I said Azhar/Kambli/Sidhu were more dominant had to do with their overall record, as in Tests there wasnt much to distinguish between the 4. Okay, I'll admit to being a bit harsh on SRT :) Despite all that, there's really nothing in these numbers to call SRT the "mainstay" of Indian batting as Raghav alleges. Not until 1996 by any means. ENG 92/93(Nothing to choose between the 4) 3 317 224 105.66 1 VK 3 302 165 100.66 1 SRT 3 214 182 71.33 1 MA 3 235 106 58.75 1 NSS ZIM 92/93(Extra pt to VK for cashing in) 1 227 227 227.00 1 VK 1 62 62 62.00 0 SRT 1 61 61 61.00 0 NSS 1 42 42 42.00 0 MA SL 93/94 SL(Nothing to choose) 3 203 104* 101.50 1 SRT 3 249 125 83.00 1 VK 3 225 104 75.00 1 NSS 3 97 50 32.33 MA SL 93/94 Ind(Extra pt to MA for 2 tons) 3 307 152 102.33 2 MA 3 266 124 88.66 1 NSS 3 244 142 81.33 1 SRT 3 144 82 48.00 VK NZ 93/94(Nothing to choose) 1 63 63 63.00 MA 1 108 98 54.00 NSS 1 54 43 54.00 SRT 1 28 19 14.00 VK WI 94/95(Extra pt to SRT for volume) 3 402 179 67.00 1 SRT 3 224 107 37.33 1 NSS 3 178 97 35.60 1 MA 3 64 40 10.66 VK NZ 94/95(Extra pt to MA for blinder) 3 122 87 61.00 MA 2 74 41 37.00 NSS 3 58 52* 29.00 SRT 3 55 28 27.50 VK BTW, you might want to look at the link below too. But I'm not going to dwell much on it :D http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;spanmax1=01+Jan+1996;spanmin1=01+Dec+1989;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting

Yeah you are right. Vinod Kambli was much more dominant and was perceived better than Sachin at the end of these 17 test matches (end of 1995) that's why he was never chosen to play any test match again for India. What kind of domination that was? This is ICC test batting ranking on 1 Apr 1996 (before Eng Tour, where world got to know about Sachin, first time) http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/datespecific/test/?stattype=batting&day=01&month=04&year=1996 (Sachin No. 5, only Indian in top 10) 1 Apr 1995 (Sachin no. 4, Only Indian in top 10) http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/datespecific/test/?stattype=batting&day=01&month=04&year=1995 1 Apr 1994 (Sachin no. 2 , Azhar 6, Kambli 7, Sidhu 11) http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/datespecific/test/?stattype=batting&day=01&month=04&year=1994 1 Apr 1993 (Sachin no. 10, only Indian in top 10) http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/datespecific/test/?stattype=batting&day=01&month=04&year=1993 And this is ranking on 1st Dec 1994. Sachin no. 1 in world and of course no other indian in top 10. But didn't he announce himself to the world in 1996 only? http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/datespecific/test/?stattype=batting&day=01&month=12&year=1994 All these claims that Sachin wasn't accepted as India's no. 1 test batsman until mid 96 tour of Eng as hollow as possible. It is even possible to suggest something like that because Sachin is struggling today in 2013 and didn't make most appropriate decision with respect to the timing of his retirement. If you want to criticise Sachin for today's performances, criticise but don't take this opportunity to wipe off what he had achieved in 1995 or 96. If either of two of you had made this suggestion at the start of 1996 that Sachin is not India's premier batsman in Test cricket, you would have got reputation worse that what amits carry on ICF. Such ludicrous these claims are. and don't try ti mix things with ODI's. A separate discussion can be had on that.

[vvvslaxman]

I never reckoned Kambli was better than Sachin any time. A flashy player with loads of risks. Anyone who looked always like losing leg stump shuffling has seriously flawed technique. 1992/93 England team was one of the most pathetic England side ever visited. Kambli was given couple of lives one at 13 other at 59 i think. Tendulkar was in supreme command. But he just could not sustain concentration for long periods. He almost got bored and got out by being over-aggressive. On day 1 he was not out on 70. Next morning very first over he faced, hit Paul Jarvis for 4 boundaries. He just toyed with their bowling. This is where Sachin missed huge opportunity to score some runs. He could have scored 200, 300 if he had the patience. Tendulkar reached his absolute peak in 1998. He could do pretty much anything against any bowler. Here also he missed good opportunity to rack up some big scores. In the 1997 series against West Indies during his 179, he hooked Courtney walsh for 6 to get to his 100. he was so audacious those days. He was more into dominating bowlers than staying for long periods.

[Raghav_12]

I never reckoned Kambli was better than Sachin any time. A flashy player with loads of risks. Anyone who looked always like losing leg stump shuffling has seriously flawed technique. 1992/93 England team was one of the most pathetic England side ever visited. Kambli was given couple of lives one at 13 other at 59 i think. Tendulkar was in supreme command. But he just could not sustain concentration for long periods. He almost got bored and got out by being over-aggressive. On day 1 he was not out on 70. Next morning very first over he faced' date=' hit Paul Jarvis for 4 boundaries. He just toyed with their bowling. This is where Sachin missed huge opportunity to score some runs. He could have scored 200, 300 if he had the patience. Tendulkar reached his absolute peak in 1998. He could do pretty much anything against any bowler. Here also he missed good opportunity to rack up some big scores. [b']In the 1997 series against West Indies during his 179, he hooked Courtney walsh for 6 to get to his 100. he was so audacious those days. He was more into dominating bowlers than staying for long periods.

That was 1994. I very well recall commentator going absolutely crazy with that kind of audacity. Hooking Walsh for six to reach century was something which was kind of unimaginable in those days. Would like to see video of that shot. Please share if anybody has. Rob, pls.

[Crookbond]

That was 1994. I very well recall commentator going absolutely crazy with that kind of audacity. Hooking Walsh for six to reach century was something which was kind of unimaginable in those days. Would like to see video of that shot. Please share if anybody has. Rob, pls.

To be fair, that pitch was very slow. Still a very good shot - Check between 5:30 to 5:45, I would think that should be the shot. Also, do not miss 9:40 - 9:50 for fast bowling connoisseurs. LWuWJJs5NyQ

[StatsRock]

Yeah you are right. Vinod Kambli was much more dominant and was perceived better than Sachin at the end of these 17 test matches (end of 1995) that's why he was never chosen to play any test match again for India. What kind of domination that was?

Now listen up pup, I already said once I may have been harsh on SRT and produced proof to show there was not much difference between the four. It is just that I have a long evaluation period before I qualify a batsman(which is different for every fan) so while you may have crowned SRT as the Reincarnation of Grace while he pottered around in diapers, I chose to wait till 1996. Grow up and quit squealing just because other fans view things differently.

This is ICC test batting ranking on 1 Apr 1996 (before Eng Tour, where world got to know about Sachin, first time) http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/datespecific/test/?stattype=batting&day=01&month=04&year=1996 (Sachin No. 5, only Indian in top 10) 1 Apr 1995 (Sachin no. 4, Only Indian in top 10) http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/datespecific/test/?stattype=batting&day=01&month=04&year=1995 1 Apr 1994 (Sachin no. 2 , Azhar 6, Kambli 7, Sidhu 11) http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/datespecific/test/?stattype=batting&day=01&month=04&year=1994 1 Apr 1993 (Sachin no. 10, only Indian in top 10) http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/datespecific/test/?stattype=batting&day=01&month=04&year=1993 And this is ranking on 1st Dec 1994. Sachin no. 1 in world and of course no other indian in top 10. But didn't he announce himself to the world in 1996 only? http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/datespecific/test/?stattype=batting&day=01&month=12&year=1994

Okay, first you quoted Test Career Averages to prove that SRT was India's No.1 batsman. The averages showed Kambli ahead of SRT by 3 and Azhar within 3 off SRT which really isnt clinching evidence. I pointed out ODI aggregates where SRT was #4 but you did not want to consider it. Now you want you look at ICC Ratings. The 4th link you posted above shows that in Apr 1993, Shoaib Mohammed, Miandad(post-1992 when he was pretty crap) and Malik were all better bats than Tendulkar. Do you agree with that? Now the same table shows Manjrekar, Greatbatch and Gurusinha ahead of Kambli even though Kambli was had tonked out 540 runs in 4 innings in Mar 1993. Do you still agree with that? Azhar in contrast had some measly 256 runs(which is less than half of Kambli) and still was ahead of Kambli by 76 points. How do you explain that?(BTW, I know 3 popular pitfalls of this ICC rating system, I am not going to name them. Let me see if you are going to name atleast 1 of them, just to make sure you really understand them and are not clutching at these numbers as straws - I already gave a hint) Again there is no magic number to decide a No.1 bat, be it averages or ICC Ratings, although some times you may glean a useful insight or two. I found it more reliable to run through series aggregates and run them across players.

All these claims that Sachin wasn't accepted as India's no. 1 test batsman until mid 96 tour of Eng as hollow as possible. It is even possible to suggest something like that because Sachin is struggling today in 2013 and didn't make most appropriate decision with respect to the timing of his retirement.

This is epic butthurt-ness! So wait, from when did you think Sachin became India's No.1 ? Again, your standard may be different(perhaps reaching Test average of 25.00+....I personally felt Sachin coming from the great tradition of Bombay's School of Batting, he needed to cut his teeth on treacherous conditions and the acid Test came only after 1996)

If you want to criticise Sachin for today's performances' date=' criticise but don't take this opportunity to wipe off what he had achieved in 1995 or 96. [/quote'] Okay, these were his runs in 1995: 4 0* 52* 2 The above may be good enough for you to break a coconut at Sachin's feet but I seriously feel you should have cracked that on your head instead. NOM :winky:

[StatsRock]

Now this is for the others, not for the Diehards or the Fanbois. There usually are several tipping points in players' careers. I felt that in Kambli's case, he started out mastering domestic bowlers for a few seasons starting from around 1990. Once he got to Tests, he realised the English pacemen had little venom, and the spinners little bite, and he extended his mastery to the international level. Now it must be said that he really was on top of his game - just to quote an instance, there was this Oct 1993 Duleep trophy game where South Zone was playing West Zone, Kumble came on to bowl the first morning and promptly Kambli went down the pitch and slapped the first ball so hard and high, it smacked the parapet wall of the stadium and bounced inside. This was confidence at its peak, those were 2 golden years where Kambli could do nothing wrong(Dravid mentioned this in Cricinfo recently). The run continued till '94 till the day of reckoning which was the Bombay test morning against WI. It was a very lively wicket and Walsh simply made the ball talk. Kambli kept flashing and lived dangerously to score 40 but clearly he was sorted out in that innings. He came face to face with some serious deficiencies that he'd never encountered before in his armour. There was no real test by fire in 1995 so Kambli chose to take things easy and not work on his flaws. More significantly he was running into discipline issues and his drinking problem escalated. Where Kambli lost out was in the 1994-95 series with England A who were travelling India. India A had a very extended series with them and the prominent ones for Ind A were Dravid, Ganguly, Amre, Mazumdar etc. That was a very crucial series played on lively wickets all along with the English seamers finding plenty of help. Dravid and Ganguly played several decent knocks then, often having to endure several periods of testing to work out the runs. I think later in 1995 there was also a SAARC Cup played in Bangladesh or so....this was also on very lively wickets. Ganguly, Dravid and Amre were very much in the thick of things there. That proved to be a valuable experience as well. Honestly, I was pretty surprised at the tremendous transition of Ganguly when June 1996 came along. Looking back, its not hard to see how it happened. Meanwhile, Tendulkar had a pretty glorious 1994-95 as well in the Ranji trophy. I remember him belting out 856 runs in Ranji, in 4 games with 5 centuries. Those 856 runs came off a mere 853 balls. I believe this was the time he really decided to dominate and hit the ball at every scoring opportunity. The piece de resistance was the 1995 semifinal on a treacherous pitch at Mumbai. TN batted first and were all out for some 145 or so. It was expected to be a competitive total on that pitch. Mumbai batted and Tendulkar smashed up 175 off 130 balls to take Mumbai to 330. A modest total but more than enough to win by an innings. There was a huge difference between the Tendulkar of 1994 and 1996. Note that in the Australiasia Cup 94, he had just started out opening after the success at Auckland in Feb 94(82 off 49 balls blitzkrieg). He was hammering Akram left and right, racing to 72 off 61 balls in the league match and Akram was actually trying to keep Jadeja on strike in around the 10th over or so :haha: When the run rate was motoring at run a ball around the 12th over, he really should have looked to consolidate and bring up a 275. Instead he threw his wicket and India collapsed to a modest score. Against Australia, chasing 244, he went after McGrath but it was only a matter of time before someone was going to take a blinder(Taylor did) and he fell for 24. Now Sidhu and Jadeja took over, they were happy to milk the bowling. Warne had them all at sea, coming up with a 7 over spell for 14 runs. Even though, Jadeja and Sidhu notched up 80 plus each. Sidhu decided to go after Warne and fell. Promptly Kambli and Azhar came up to knock off the rest, infact Kambli coming up with that brazen and fantastic assault off Warne :D (to be contd later).

[vvvslaxman]

To be fair, that pitch was very slow. Still a very good shot - Check between 5:30 to 5:45, I would think that should be the shot. Also, do not miss 9:40 - 9:50 for fast bowling connoisseurs. LWuWJJs5NyQ

Tony Cozier was awfully pissed in this series. After Mohali win for West Indies he wrote a sarcastic article digging at Indian batsmen.

[Lurker]

Now this is for the others, not for the Diehards or the Fanbois. There usually are several tipping points in players' careers. I felt that in Kambli's case, he started out mastering domestic bowlers for a few seasons starting from around 1990. Once he got to Tests, he realised the English pacemen had little venom, and the spinners little bite, and he extended his mastery to the international level. Now it must be said that he really was on top of his game - just to quote an instance, there was this Oct 1993 Duleep trophy game where South Zone was playing West Zone, Kumble came on to bowl the first morning and promptly Kambli went down the pitch and slapped the first ball so hard and high, it smacked the parapet wall of the stadium and bounced inside. This was confidence at its peak, those were 2 golden years where Kambli could do nothing wrong(Dravid mentioned this in Cricinfo recently). The run continued till '94 till the day of reckoning which was the Bombay test morning against WI. It was a very lively wicket and Walsh simply made the ball talk. Kambli kept flashing and lived dangerously to score 40 but clearly he was sorted out in that innings. He came face to face with some serious deficiencies that he'd never encountered before in his armour. There was no real test by fire in 1995 so Kambli chose to take things easy and not work on his flaws. More significantly he was running into discipline issues and his drinking problem escalated. Where Kambli lost out was in the 1994-95 series with England A who were travelling India. India A had a very extended series with them and the prominent ones for Ind A were Dravid, Ganguly, Amre, Mazumdar etc. That was a very crucial series played on lively wickets all along with the English seamers finding plenty of help. Dravid and Ganguly played several decent knocks then, often having to endure several periods of testing to work out the runs. I think later in 1995 there was also a SAARC Cup played in Bangladesh or so....this was also on very lively wickets. Ganguly, Dravid and Amre were very much in the thick of things there. That proved to be a valuable experience as well. Honestly, I was pretty surprised at the tremendous transition of Ganguly when June 1996 came along. Looking back, its not hard to see how it happened. Meanwhile, Tendulkar had a pretty glorious 1994-95 as well in the Ranji trophy. I remember him belting out 856 runs in Ranji, in 4 games with 5 centuries. Those 856 runs came off a mere 853 balls. I believe this was the time he really decided to dominate and hit the ball at every scoring opportunity. The piece de resistance was the 1995 semifinal on a treacherous pitch at Mumbai. TN batted first and were all out for some 145 or so. It was expected to be a competitive total on that pitch. Mumbai batted and Tendulkar smashed up 175 off 130 balls to take Mumbai to 330. A modest total but more than enough to win by an innings. There was a huge difference between the Tendulkar of 1994 and 1996. Note that in the Australiasia Cup 94, he had just started out opening after the success at Auckland in Feb 94(82 off 49 balls blitzkrieg). He was hammering Akram left and right, racing to 72 off 61 balls in the league match and Akram was actually trying to keep Jadeja on strike in around the 10th over or so :haha: When the run rate was motoring at run a ball around the 12th over, he really should have looked to consolidate and bring up a 275. Instead he threw his wicket and India collapsed to a modest score. Against Australia, chasing 244, he went after McGrath but it was only a matter of time before someone was going to take a blinder(Taylor did) and he fell for 24. Now Sidhu and Jadeja took over, they were happy to milk the bowling. Warne had them all at sea, coming up with a 7 over spell for 14 runs. Even though, Jadeja and Sidhu notched up 80 plus each. Sidhu decided to go after Warne and fell. Promptly Kambli and Azhar came up to knock off the rest, infact Kambli coming up with that brazen and fantastic assault off Warne :D (to be contd later).

This is almost like reading Widen and Cricketer Stats saab. Unfortunately more of Indian writings, by fans or experts, tend to be around numbers, stats, ratings and of course the modern day phenomenon of links(including video). It was like reading KN Prabhu once again. Brilliant. :hatsoff: Cant wait for the next part :nice:

[vvvslaxman]

Kambli scored like 20 runs off Warne charging down the wicket. He just minnowbashed his way at the start. He had lot of weaknesses. With a bit of luck he had a great start to his career. Unlike Sachin he didn't have to start his career in hostile conditions. If Kambli had started his career in such places with lot of technical weaknesses he would have been brutally exposed. I remember how Ganguly's ODI debut was. He was like a 2 year toddler timidly facing Aussie bowlers.