Prakat Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 How are "we" (as opposed to various tribals in grave danger of becoming Christians) benefited by them staying the way they are? "We" don't give a rats ass about them as long as they stay in their place, the place that we have given them, on the fringes of society, far beneath us, and without benefiting from any of the progress that we have enjoyed. But as soon as an NGO shows interest in their upliftment socially by using funds from evangelical donors whose only requirement is that the beneficiaries acccept JC as their lord and savior, we are galvanized into immediate action. Our nerves bristling at how poor Hindus (really? Suddenly we convert them to Hindus for our convenience - "saar, they were always Hindus, only the wrong kind hehe!" ;) are being converted en masse by foreign proselytizing organizations.
Crookbond Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 ever read their editorial section? difference between a news story and opinion of the people who run the paper. dilip padgaonkar comes to my mind. Great - this means that the news paper has the credibility to carry a positive news about Modi despite having a negative sentiment by the editorial team. That's how news papers are. What's wrong in that? any proof DG spins things in Modi's favor? It is an independent internet news service run by gujarati journalist Japan Pathak. No - I made that statement just to prove a point that just because the name is DeshGujarat it doesn't mean it is a mouth piece for Gujarat. Just like just because there is aid from a Christian organization doesn't mean it is a mouth piece for Christianity.
FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 That's a moral position not a legal one - any person you, me and even the beggar on the street has complete right to voice his opinion against what he feels is right. You and I can do nothing about it. Next, you are putting up a straw man now. Agenda? Anhad is just receiving funds. Just because some stupid cardinal of the church said that he expects a "return" for aid it doesn't mean all the other people in the church will pat his back and say "I do too". Remember we are talking about Anhad and it's source of funds. You can cast a doubt over the source of funds but you can't establish fait accompli that there's a foregone agenda. It's up to you to prove beyond doubt that there is an agenda. Acceptance of funds hitherto does not prove anything. then why do people on the left criticize VHP, RSS when they do social work in villages and for the poor? i never hear ANHAD or any other secular organization praise them for their work after 2004 tsunami, 2001 bhuj earthquake
FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 Great - this means that the news paper has the credibility to carry a positive news about Modi despite having a negative sentiment by the editorial team. That's how news papers are. What's wrong in that? No - I made that statement just to prove a point that just because the name is DeshGujarat it doesn't mean it is a mouth piece for Gujarat. Just like just because there is aid from a Christian organization doesn't mean it is a mouth piece for Christianity. Dileep Padgaonkar is a known Modi-baiter. Just see him on any of the news channel debates over the past 10 years or read any of his articles. Im not saying christians are bad. i have catholic and baptist friends. I am just opposed to those who use the poor to advance their beliefs. if you want to do good work, do it offering services, without the Bible/Koran/Gita as a prerequisite
Crookbond Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 then why do people on the left criticize VHP' date=' RSS when they do social work in villages and for the poor? [b']i never hear ANHAD or any other secular organization praise them for their work after 2004 tsunami, 2001 bhuj earthquake Let me understand you correctly - you say that VHP, RSS are not praised for their social work in villages for the poor while Anhad is praised for Gujarat work in Human rights despite receiving money from Christian Aid UK (which btw is not a fundamentalist charity but may have evangelical tones to it)?
FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 How are "we" (as opposed to various tribals in grave danger of becoming Christians) benefited by them staying the way they are? "We" don't give a rats ass about them as long as they stay in their place' date=' [b']the place that we have given them, on the fringes of society, far beneath us, and without benefiting from any of the progress that we have enjoyed. But as soon as an NGO shows interest in their upliftment socially by using funds from evangelical donors whose only requirement is that the beneficiaries acccept JC as their lord and savior, we are galvanized into immediate action. Our nerves bristling at how poor Hindus (really? Suddenly we convert them to Hindus for our convenience - "saar, they were always Hindus, only the wrong kind hehe!" ;) are being converted en masse by foreign proselytizing organizations. i have no problem if tribals convert on their own free will. Inducements, which the church is well known for throughout history shouldnt play a role in that process. Hinduism is much stronger than what you make it out to be. Although you should read up on the history of how Christianity was used by european conquerors to belittle and mock the native beliefs of the indigenous people they terrorized. if you want to stay aloof of that, its your choice, but i take the work of these foreign NGOs doing work of social justice, as long as you accept JC with a pinch of salt
Crookbond Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 Dileep Padgaonkar is a known Modi-baiter. Just see him on any of the news channel debates over the past 10 years or read any of his articles. Im not saying christians are bad. i have catholic and baptist friends. I am just opposed to those who use the poor to advance their beliefs. if you want to do good work, do it offering services, without the Bible/Koran/Gita as a prerequisite I am as vehemently opposed as you are. For example, the Scottish Cardinal in the article you posted has got his share of flak from the writer. I wouldn't be surprised if he has lost his position over it. Side note - the roman catholic church doesn't allow you to proselytize over night. You need to go through a year long process to get proselytized which is subject to many conditions thus letting people with only genuine interests to be 'converts'. Moreover, RC discourages proselytization due to this very same issues you are raising. Next time if you see someone doing something like that, promptly write to the archdiocese of that area and action will be taken (I have done it in the past and people have lost their jobs over it).
jairamesh Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 then why do people on the left criticize VHP' date=' [b']RSS when they do social work in villages and for the poor? i never hear ANHAD or any other secular organization praise them for their work after 2004 tsunami, 2001 bhuj earthquake terrorist organisations don't deserve credit:winky:
FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 terrorist organisations don't deserve credit:winky: you think they are terrorists, i dont. :two_thumbs_up:
FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 I am as vehemently opposed as you are. For example, the Scottish Cardinal in the article you posted has got his share of flak from the writer. I wouldn't be surprised if he has lost his position over it. Side note - the roman catholic church doesn't allow you to proselytize over night. You need to go through a year long process to get proselytized which is subject to many conditions thus letting people with only genuine interests to be 'converts'. Moreover, RC discourages proselytization due to this very same issues you are raising. Next time if you see someone doing something like that, promptly write to the archdiocese of that area and action will be taken (I have done it in the past and people have lost their jobs over it). well i had a personal experience with it. my aunt was recovering from breast cancer in hospital in amdavad and then a local sister in the church there came and comforted her. everyday she would come and talk with my aunt as she did for quite some time. then, after a couple of days, she started telling her to stop believing in Lord Krishna and stop reading gita and that Jesus will end your suffering and all that, etc. Im not saying this sister represents all christians, but such cases do happen.
Crookbond Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 well i had a personal experience with it. my aunt was recovering from breast cancer in hospital in amdavad and then a local sister in the church there came and comforted her. everyday she would come and talk with my aunt as she did for quite some time. then' date=' after a couple of days, she started telling her to stop believing in Lord Krishna and stop reading gita and that Jesus will end your suffering and all that, etc. Im not saying this sister represents all christians, but such cases do happen.[/quote'] :facepalm: I can totally understand and relate to what's going on. I wouldn't even doubt that it's not true. I think we as a society are yet to learn to "agree to disagree" specially on religion. Btw, can you tell me what kind of church that is? It looks Roman Catholic to by the words you are using. Next time it happens, promptly shoot a letter to the head priest of the parish. This will nip it in the bud. Side note - I hope your aunt has recovered and there are no relapses in her health situation.
FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 :facepalm: I can totally understand and relate to what's going on. I wouldn't even doubt that it's not true. I think we as a society are yet to learn to "agree to disagree" specially on religion. Btw, can you tell me what kind of church that is? It looks Roman Catholic to by the words you are using. Next time it happens, promptly shoot a letter to the head priest of the parish. This will nip it in the bud. Side note - I hope your aunt has recovered and there are no relapses in her health situation. thanks. she had stage 2 cancer, but she underwent chemo for past 1 and a half year and as of now, she is cancer free, but there are chances of recurrence. i dont know which church it was, but there are not too many in amdavad. i live in USA, so not too familiar with this, but i am not making it up. Again, I am not hindutva maniac. If Modi did commit 2002 riots, I will be first person to say he should be behind bars. Nothing justifies loss of human lives.
Prakat Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 i have no problem if tribals convert on their own free will. Inducements, which the church is well known for throughout history shouldnt play a role in that process. Hinduism is much stronger than what you make it out to be. Although you should read up on the history of how Christianity was used by european conquerors to belittle and mock the native beliefs of the indigenous people they terrorized. if you want to stay aloof of that, its your choice, but i take the work of these foreign NGOs doing work of social justice, as long as you accept JC with a pinch of salt You don't have any problem? Where do you get off with this attitude? These are people you wouldn't think about your whole life much less do anything for (spare me your personal sstories of how you did NSS seva in tribal areas) but since you are against Suicide morally you think you have a right to interfere in their lives when they decide to commit mass suicide?
Crookbond Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 thanks. she had stage 2 cancer, but she underwent chemo for past 1 and a half year and as of now, she is cancer free, but there are chances of recurrence. i dont know which church it was, but there are not too many in amdavad. i live in USA, so not too familiar with this, but i am not making it up. Again, I am not hindutva maniac. If Modi did commit 2002 riots, I will be first person to say he should be behind bars. Nothing justifies loss of human lives. Off topic - make sure she checks up EVERY year compulsory. I lost a loved one due to doctor's negligence on that point.
FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 You don't have any problem? Where do you get off with this attitude? These are people you wouldn't think about your whole life much less do anything for (spare me your personal sstories of how you did NSS seva in tribal areas) but since you are against Suicide morally you think you have a right to interfere in their lives when they decide to commit mass suicide? lol, i do charity work also here in the states. Just last summer, I dedicated 3 months of my summer vacation to working for Iraq and Afghan vets coming back from the war at the veterans center. Im not trying to show off here, but you have this uppity notion that people cant have views on public issues. Spare me this diatribe of being offended. Also, for you to deny RSS does good work for Indian people, barring religion and caste shows your own bias.
FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 Off topic - make sure she checks up EVERY year compulsory. I lost a loved one due to doctor's negligence on that point. duly noted :two_thumbs_up: :icflove:
Prakat Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 lol' date=' i do charity work also here in the states. Just last summer, I dedicated 3 months of my summer vacation to working for Iraq and Afghan vets coming back from the war at the veterans center. Im not trying to show off here, but you have this uppity notion that people cant have views on public issues. Spare me this diatribe of being offended. Also, for you to deny RSS does good work for Indian people, barring religion and caste shows your own bias.[/quote'] Religion is a personal issue. If you convert to Satanism tomorrow I don't get to have a say in it. As for bias, you bringing up my denying RSS's social works, when I did no such thing, in fact reveals your own bias. So quit with the dhong and shout out with pride that you are a RSS lackey doing his bit for the grand cause.
FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 Religion is a personal issue. If you convert to Satanism tomorrow I don't get to have a say in it. As for bias, you bringing up my denying RSS's social works, when I did no such thing, in fact reveals your own bias. So quit with the dhong and shout out with pride that you are a RSS lackey doing his bit for the grand cause. lol, RSS lackey, dhong. such words show your style of debate. :giggle: i agree religion is a personal issue, but like the example i gave to DM, such instances do occur where missionaries go after those in suffering and try to convert them. if you think thats fine, then AAL IZZ WELL. :--D so you believe RSS, Sangh Parivar has done good work for India? You call me an RSS lackey. Have i abused you in any way? Give me proof RSS hasnt done good work for the poor before name-calling.
Prakat Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 I have no intentions of aiding you in your Pracharak duties. Lagey raho!
FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 I have no intentions of aiding you in your Pracharak duties. Lagey raho! tujhe mirchi lagin toh main kya karoon :giggle:
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