Secular India

[EnterTheVoid]

Secular in name only.

[randomGuy]

KT care to list out the 'loads of perks and advantages' and that Muslims get? Read the Sachar Committee Report. Muslims are at the bottom of most of the socio-economic and health related indices.

Reason is their own mistakes, from more children to not enrolling in schools to falling for vote bank politics and not development politics.

[The Outsider]

I do not want religious reservations in jobs in India, the antics like allocating as high as 20% resources as up gov talks abt.

What has been implemented? Indira Gandhi ne 40 saal pehle kaha tha ghareebi hatao, hat gayi kya?

You haven't replied properly to my ques. IM has killed hundreds of Indians, it was made by Indians who were vulnerable, its members are trained and protected by isi.

Can you please phrase the question again, because I thought I addressed all points raised in that post?

[asterix]

No one can help bring this peaceful community to uplift and join the mainstream, other than they themselves by adapting family planning, education, pragmatic leadership and try to assimilate with other communities rather than try to be a ghetto community... If this community can have issues assimilating and uplifting in country like India, it can't have any better country where they are in minority....

[The Outsider]

Reason is their own mistakes' date=' from more children to not enrolling in schools to falling for vote bank politics and not development politics.[/quote'] Excuse my cynicism, but there is no such thing as development politics in the context of India. If you think Modi is some proponent of development politics, then you cannot be more off the base. I was looking at some numbers and the guy is on the verge of submerging Gujarat into a debt cesspool - this is not my analysis, but from eminent economists, who have zero stake in 2002.

[randomGuy]

Can you please phrase the question again, because I thought I addressed all points raised in that post?

Point is that mistrust is exploited by external factors and mistrust increases due to that exploitation.

[randomGuy]

Excuse my cynicism' date=' but there is no such thing as development politics in the context of India. If you think Modi is some proponent of development politics, then you cannot be more off the base. I was looking at some numbers and the guy is on the verge of submerging Gujarat into a debt cesspool - this is not my analysis, but from eminent economists, who have zero stake in 2002.[/quote'] Bjp has better, more decisive, proactive, bold leader ship to take decisions, will be better for development. Congress has more corrupt leaders . Have some figures for your points?

[The Outsider]

Point is that mistrust is exploited by external factors and mistrust increases due to that exploitation.

Quite obviously, it does. But you think BJP and Modi have a clean chit in this, which is something I strongly disagree with.

[The Outsider]

Bjp has better, more decisive, proactive, bold leader ship to take decisions, will be better for development.

More decisive towards destruction. Congress has more corrupt leaders . Have some figures for your points?

In 2013-14, the government plans to raise fresh loans to the tune of Rs 26,009 crore. Of this amount, Rs 19,877 crore, that is 76 per cent, will be used to pay the principal and the interests of the existing debts. Gujarat would fall into the debt trap the day this figure reaches 100 per cent.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/no-model-state/1165249/0 This is not some chindi internet Modi hater, BTW. But given the track record when even Amartya Sen was called a khull-e-aam chewtiya on this forum, I won't be surprised if Chris meets the same fate.

[randomGuy]

Quite obviously' date=' it does. But you think BJP and Modi have a clean chit in this, which is something I strongly disagree with.[/quote'] Its an action reaction thing. Even if the bjp wasn't there, reaction to hota hi, in any case. Main thing is - both points in post #137 ate valid.

[randomGuy]

More decisive towards destruction. Congress has more corrupt leaders . Have some figures for your points? http://www.indianexpress.com/news/no-model-state/1165249/0 This is not some chindi internet Modi hater, BTW. But given the track record when even Amartya Sen was called a khull-e-aam chewtiya on this forum, I won't be surprised if Chris meets the same fate.

I would still wanna see official debt to GDP ratio for every state to wanna compare. It can vary majorly from year to year, if its 76%, it is 10-15% higher than it should be I guess. Also, The ability to pay off debt may depend on state to state like it depends on country to country. Debt for USA was allowed to go till 105% for example which is high even for USA but for India, it would not possibly be allowed. Guj ranks very high when it comes to GDP per capita BTW.

[surajmal]

Muddy up the discourse. Speciality of the lefties. Crux of Jaffrelot's argument is Gujarat doesn't spend much social sectors. :hysterical: Right, by that measure Congress should be handed the kursi for the next 1000 years.

[someone]

So' date=' a state court is going to decide who is a minority at the national level? :hysterical:[/quote'] I guess you didn't read it, then? Stop commenting when you don't know about it. Minority isn't really all about numbers. And mind you, these numbers should always be based per state.

[someone]

Veteran journalist M.J. Akbar has questioned the minority status of Muslims, saying they had ruled India for decades and Brahmins were a bigger minority. He called upon Muslims to unshackle themselves from the “politics of fear” and adopt the “politics of development.” Muslims had become a minority when their hands turned to the government for help and not to Allah. And it was true that though Muslims were in a minority, they had ruled India for centuries. Muslims constituted roughly 20 per cent of the population during the time of eminent saint Khwaja Moinuddin Chishti of Ajmer in the 12th century, and even now they accounted for the same percentage. Mr. Akbar said, “The word ‘minority’ is not associated with numbers but with power.” Brahmins did not consider themselves a minority. Only Dalits should be considered a minority as they had never ruled the country. He was speaking on Sunday at the fifth annual convention of Muslim Writers Academy, only one of its kind for Gujarat-based Muslim writers and journalists. The former Congress MP said it was time for the community to introspect. The need of the hour was to change the attitude and mindset. “Changing attitude and mindset is not easy but when the time demands a change, a change should be ushered in, for power flows not from a sword but power flows from education.” Muslims should start regaining their self-confidence and shed the “politics of begging.” “Indian Muslims should consider themselves fortunate since India is a democratic country and communities here are empowered.” Muslims should not just cast their votes but sell them. “Sell it to the bidder who promises education and especially to that bidder who promises education to the girls,” he said. http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/muslims-should-shed-attitude-of-minorityism-says-mj-akbar/article4429030.ece

And before the usual whining and personal attacks, check the author religion and the bold points as well.

[someone]

No one can help bring this peaceful community to uplift and join the mainstream, other than they themselves by adapting family planning, education, pragmatic leadership and try to assimilate with other communities rather than try to be a ghetto community... If this community can have issues assimilating and uplifting in country like India, it can't have any better country where they are in minority....

Yep, but it's not they are even trying. Just being from that one community and not being majority means injustice to them. And thus the appeasement starts Which is why India really is still secular only because Hindus are majority or rather Muslims are not in majority. The day that completely changes, a whole lot will change. Btw, a lot has already changed in at least some states/areas where that % has switched.

[zumi]

India is secular for Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Christians, Parsis, Buddhists, Shias, Bohras, Chelias, ...But for Politicians, Sunni muslims are to be pitied who need help in every walk of life and are to be treated with kiddy gloves. And this pathetic approach is what's breeding radicalism within Sunni muslim community and continues ever more to isolate themselves from India

[The Outsider]

Its an action reaction thing. Even if the bjp wasn't there' date=' reaction to hota hi, in any case. Main thing is - both points in post #137 ate valid.[/quote'] Yeah, speak the language of your neta - the action/reaction lingo. This isn't the first instance of a person belonging to one community doing badtameezi with a girl from another community. To give it a communal hue shows a complete lack of understanding. It is only heading one way - Modi keeps doling land out to corporate organizations to boost the GDP and subsidizes it from the state funding to show a growth in GDP. The layman is impressed by the GDP numbers and not of the associated economic numbers. The GSPC loss of thousands of crores is one of the biggest scams pulled on the Indian people, but no one gives a feck about it - the amount of public exchequer lost due to the public boasting of Modi about it would have financed the FSB for multiple years. Why? I've already explained the per capita GDP above, which is what naive people care about. Even if you have taken a basic course in macro economics, it would tell you that the numbers in Gujarat are one of a society living off debt, and unlike the US it does not have a "daallar" to sustain that kind of "growth".

[The Outsider]

I guess you didn't read it, then? Stop commenting when you don't know about it.

Can you summarize it's findings? No, I did not read it because I find it fundamentally stupid for a state court to decide on who is and who is not a minority at the national level.

Minority isn't really all about numbers. And mind you, these numbers should always be based per state.

It's about economic stature, then? How are Muslims faring on those counts? Why per state, why not per district or per tehseel?

[randomGuy]

Yeah, speak the language of your neta - the action/reaction lingo. This isn't the first instance of a person belonging to one community doing badtameezi with a girl from another community. To give it a communal hue shows a complete lack of understanding.

The real reason is selective action and appeasement.

It is only heading one way - Modi keeps doling land out to corporate organizations to boost the GDP and subsidizes it from the state funding to show a growth in GDP. The layman is impressed by the GDP numbers and not of the associated economic numbers. The GSPC loss of thousands of crores is one of the biggest scams pulled on the Indian people, but no one gives a feck about it - the amount of public exchequer lost due to the public boasting of Modi about it would have financed the FSB for multiple years. Why? I've already explained the per capita GDP above, which is what naive people care about. Even if you have taken a basic course in macro economics, it would tell you that the numbers in Gujarat are one of a society living off debt, and unlike the US it does not have a "daallar" to sustain that kind of "growth".

1. Corporates pay so much tax(see numbers here). Give so many jobs, hence promote inlusive growth. There's so much competition in diff. countries n states to create best climate to attract investments. Giving some initial incentives is essential in this regard coz many cos require some initial incentives as they wont be making profits straight away. I think when Ratan Tata says that - as a buisnessman, you got to be fool to not invest in Gujarat, that says very high abt Modi. 2. Regarding HDI parameters, I have said nutrition gaps and literacy rates(which is arnd 80% for guj.) need to be improved and they are being worked upon I read. Agriculture, power, roads and water has done very well. Agri - 10%+ avg yearly growth for last decade, 19.5% in last yr. power - all 18k villages have elec., its a power surplus state, leader in renewable power. water - when modi became cm in 2001, 4% homes had tap water, compared to 76% today. Irrigation situation has also improved. 3. Debt to gdp ratio for USA - 88% For japan - 134% italy - 103% UK - 83% India - 66% And this varies majorly every year. I need data abt india states.

[The Outsider]

The real reason is selective action and appeasement.

Huh? These kind of incidents happen throughout India by the dime and dozen on an everyday basis. How many lead to a communal riot leaving 50 people dead and 50,000 displaced?

1. Corporates pay so much tax(see numbers here). Give so many jobs, hence promote inlusive growth. There's so much competition in diff. countries n states to create best climate to attract investments. Giving some initial incentives is essential in this regard coz many cos require some initial incentives as they wont be making profits straight away. I think when Ratan Tata says that - as a buisnessman, you got to be fool to not invest in Gujarat, that says very high abt Modi.

Of course, Rattan Tata will say that given the kind of doles he got. The issue is not about letting businesses set up establishments. It's about: 1. The pathetic rate that land owners get to be forcefully evicted. 2. The businesses are taking undue advantage of the subsidized SEZs by selling/leasing the land that they got at subsidy price for market price.

Agriculture, power, roads and water has done very well. Agri - 10%+ avg yearly growth for last decade, 19.5% in last yr. power - all 18k villages have elec., its a power surplus state, leader in renewable power. water - when modi became cm in 2001, 4% homes had tap water, compared to 76% today. Irrigation situation has also improved.

I agree with agriculture and roads. Water? You've got to be kidding me. The Narmada project is not even 40% complete. And even that is a central project. Power? LOL! Producing power through solar plants at Rs. 10/unit and selling it at Rs. 4/unit is doing well?

3. Debt to gdp ratio for USA - 88% For japan - 134% italy - 103% UK - 83% India - 66% And this varies majorly every year. I need data abt india states.

Yaar, subaah subaah dimaag mat burn karo. Out of the countries you listed Japan and Italy are in deep *******. USA has the "daalar" - they can borrow practically the entire money in the world before people feel they will default. UK is not a free market to enable a comparison. That leaves India - Modi's number is 77% compared to the national average of 66% coupled with the pathetic record in HDI development, which you have admitted. Do you think India can survive on the Gujarat model of 77% debt to GDP ratio and ignoring HDI?