Pace bowling and development of a pace bowler in India

[Ram]

K, cool...

[Chandan]

Prem Panicker was asked for his take on the article and was asked the question Why does he think is this situation when we won the previous test series convincingly? His reply: There’s a whole menu list of reasons, but the over-riding one is that the cricket administration is not particularly clued in to the need for (a) development and (b) maintenance. Take the former, first. For over three decades now, everyone has been talking of the need for fast pitches at the domestic level to create and foster fast bowlers, but thus far, we haven’t gone beyond talk. Secondly, since the days of Kapil and Srinath it has been apparent that we cannot win abroad without quality quicks, yet the only official program to find, and fine-tune, young budding fast bowlers is run by private enterprise (a corollary is that because the MRF Academy is private, the BCCI doesn’t work too well with it). Now look at the latter. Think back ten years, and list the number of fast bowlers who have played for India for a series, a season, and vanished. The list numbers over a dozen—and no one knows where they are now. A good administration needs to see talent as a resource. I could cite the examples of Nehra, Balaji and others, but go back even further. Remember a certain Dodda Ganesh? When Ganesh was in South Africa, then coach Madan Lal and his captain at the time both wrote, in official reports submitted to the BCCI, that the lad had promise, and that he needed advanced coaching to fulfill his natural ability. What came of that report? Nothing—Ganesh was dropped for the next tour. The selectors said “He has had his opportunities and not deliveredâ€. Now that is not only callous (and contrary to the opinion of the coach and captain of the time), it is damnably careless. The BCCI spent money on Ganesh, during that SA tour. Only a bad administration then writes off that amount without thought. A more enlightened one, on receipt of the two reports, would have sent Ganesh to the MRF Academy with a note asking that Lillee and Shekhar evaluate him, work with him, and send the board and selectors a progress report. Not once in its history has the board done that. Srinath and Prasad following injury worked at the MRFA, but it was on their own initiative, and MRF on its own then sent them to Australia for follow up. Continue down the line, all the way to Irfan Pathan—he was bowling like a dork, and the BCCI just dumped him by the wayside. He went on his own to the MRF Academy, worked there with TA and Lillee, and is now back. My point is, if you want fast bowlers—or spin bowlers for that matter—you have to actively look for raw talent. You have to work with that talent, to bring it to its true potential. And when that talent goes off the rails, you have to actively pursue corrective policies—you don’t just dump them in the nearest garbage bin. Another example is Zaheer. It was TA Shekhar who discovered him when talent scouting, and not the board. It was the MRF Academy that took him on, paid his expenses, and trained him, and not the board. And when he went off the rails, again it was the MRF Academy, not the board, that first worked on his rehabilitation; he then went to England on his own, and not part of a program by the board aimed at his rehabilitation. What actually surprises me is that given how the administration operates, not just now but historically, we still manage to produce talent—that, frankly, is a miracle all by itself.

[Chandan]

This brings me to the point of having a qualified bowling coach, not only for the national side but NCA as well where all the raw talents are worked with, and the current ones are fine-tuned--the job which Troy Cooley is now doing for Australia after successfully working with England. Has BCCI got any such arrangement? Or, keeping in mind the disinterest of BCCI in these kind of matters, should NCA appoint such a coach on its own as it is getting more professional with Dav Whatmore as its director?

[fineleg]

This brings me to the point of having a qualified bowling coach, not only for the national side but NCA as well where all the raw talents are worked with, and the current ones are fine-tuned--the job which Troy Cooley is now doing for Australia after successfully working with England. Has BCCI got any such arrangement? Or, keeping in mind the disinterest of BCCI in these kind of matters, should NCA appoint such a coach on its own as it is getting more professional with Dav Whatmore as its director?

Chandan, This is what needs to happen. BCCI fatsos will sit on their fat a$$es and wont do nothin' NCA has got to be proactive and move on its own. I have been crying hoarse for the past 2 years (maybe not on this forum, but...) for TROY COOLEY to be somehow brought as Indian bowling coach. Oh Well!!!

[Chandan]

Troy Cooley can't be brought here because he already is doing a very productive work for Australia, ie, making the young gen of pace bowlers ready to face the situation post Warne-McGrath era. And I suppose he has done a commendable job. Australia was stung by India at home in 03-04 series when neither of the two greats played. They realised that they need to handle the situation methodically and in that 4 years they've really come through with a good pool of pacer bowlers. I don't think BCCI will ever do such a thing, but Ravi Shastri as NCA chairman can take an initiative. Secondly, there were many interesting posts about how GC and his deputy has tackling the young talent in formative years at RCA.

[fineleg]

Troy Cooley can't be brought here because he already is doing a very productive work for Australia, ie, making the young gen of pace bowlers ready to face the situation post Warne-McGrath era. And I suppose he has done a commendable job. Australia was stung by India at home in 03-04 series when neither of the two greats play. They realised that they need to handle the situation methodically and in that 4 years they've really come through with a good pool of pacer bowlers. I don't think BCCI will ever do such a thing, but Ravi Shastri as NCA chairman can take an initiative. Secondly, there were many interesting posts about how GC and his deputy has tackling the young talent in formative years at RCA.

I must have missed this! Can you pls. point me to the posts? Thx.

[Chandan]

I must have missed this! Can you pls. point me to the posts? Thx.

It is not on this forum, but Prem-Panicker's blog which I visit regularly as I like his posts. If you want, you can visit it too: http://www.prempanicker.com/index.php?/site/comments/no_more_awol/P0/

[fineleg]

ok, thanks. I used to read PP, but havent in a while.

[Chandan]

Ranadeb Bose is a terrible one day bowler. I've seen him in the Deodhar trophy this year and he was just...rubbish! I think we can give Gangandeep Singh a break in ODIs with two of the main bowlers oprating. The guy is good. VRV is utterly useless for limited over format and he is a terrible fielder too. I think we should give chance to Ishant and YoMahesh to get a bit more ready. They are too young at this level. We can give them breaks if we're playing minnows, but not against Australia. That way, we still end up with just 7 bowlers: Zaheer Irfan RPS Sree Munaf Agarkar Gagandeep. So this is the only list we have. Maybe Ishant and YoMahesh be ready by next year!!

It seems that the selectors are hell bent on choosing Ishant before he has developed completely. And Gagandeep Singh seems to have gone off the boil this season as has Bose. We had one good bowler 2 years back in Balaji but it seems as if he has been wrecked by injuries. TN Coach WV Raman cautious over Balaji's return Fast bowler action restructured Kanishkaa Balachandran in Chennai November 15, 2007 Lakshmipathy Balaji: not expected to return in a hurry © Getty Images Lakshmipathy Balaji, the Indian fast bowler currently on a cometrack trail from injury, will not be rushed back into competitive cricket, Tamil Nadu coach WV Raman has said. Balaji, who has been out of first-class cricket for more than a year owing to a stress fracture in his back, was expected to return for Tamil Nadu's third round Ranji Trophy match against Karnataka but is apparently far from match-fit. "I cannot put a finger on Balaji at the moment," Raman said on the eve of Tamil Nadu's second round match against Mumbai in Chennai. "He is bowling with a resurrected bowling action and he will have to get used to that first." Raman said Balaji would have to play at least one two-day game to prove his fitness. "A two-day match could be organised soon for him to get his rhythm back. Importantly, he should be able to stand in the field for 90 overs at least. If he feels fit on the third day, then he is on the right track." Balaji last played for India in 2005, during the Indian Oil Cup in Sri Lanka, and has since been sidelined with a stress fracture. He returned for last season's Irani Trophy match and took part in the Challenger Trophy in Chennai as well. ------------------------------------------------------------- So we have to wait to see how Balaji does post surgery! Almost same or in fact worse is the case with Nehra, who IMO is finished as far as his career with national team is concerned! Nehra ruled out for two more months Fast bowler likely to return by end of January Cricinfo staff November 21, 2007 Ashish Nehra could return in time for the Duleep Trophy starting January 26 © Getty Images Ashish Nehra, former India and Delhi left-arm seamer, has been ruled out for the next two months of the Indian domestic season after being advised to rest his ankle, which was operated upon recently. He missed Delhi's first two matches of the Ranji Trophy Super League and is likely to return only by the end of January. "I had gotten my ankle operated during the domestic off-season and have been advised by the doctors to rest it for the next two months till I am fully fit," Nehra was quoted in the Indian Express. "I am sure to play the Duleep and Deodhar Trophies and one-dayers, and the Ranji Trophy knockout matches as well, if Delhi qualify." Nehra will travel with the team for their fourth- and fifth-round matches against Himachal Pradesh (in Dharamsala) and Maharashtra (in Pune) respectively, and train with the team physio. John Gloster, the Indian team physio, will also work with Nehra during the first Test between India and Pakistan at the Feroz Shah Kotla in New Delhi. Nehra, among the most injury-prone Indian players in recent times, said he was intent on taking things cautiously to avoid breaking down again. "I do not want to make the mistake again of playing until I am fully fit," Nehra said. "Not only will that hamper my performance but also aggravate my injury. So I am going to take it light this season and come back the moment I know I am ready." Delhi coach Vijay Dahiya admitted that Nehra's absence would be felt, yet backed his decision to play it safe. "From a team's point of view even an 80% Nehra is essential for the team, but from an individual perspective I think this is a good decision that Ashish has taken," Dahiya said. "He aggravated his injury last season and this season he has chosen wisely to rest it and recover fully." Nehra last played for India during the tour of Zimbabwe in 2005. Last season, he took 15 wickets in the Ranji Trophy at 41 runs apiece, and 13 wickets in nine one-day games. ------------------------------------------------------ So the pool of seamers is shrinking more and more. How about including Pankaj Singh for a few ODIs next year?

[fineleg]

As feared - Rajeev now posts: http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=70821 SS and RPS ruled out of SECOND test. Are SS and RPS going to go to Aus? Even if they go, are they going to be fit? Has BCCI greed burned RP Singh out for Aus tour?

[Chandan]

Who are the promising pace bowlers this season? 1.Pradeep Sangwan: left arm seamer from Delhi 2.Avishkar Salvi : right hand medium pacer from Mumbai 3. VRV Singh : the much castigated seamer from Punjab 4.Vijay YoMahesh: Right arm seamer from TN 5.Ishant Sharma: Right arm seamer from Delhi Can you name others who have not been included in the bench in earlier post?

[Predator_05]

Sangwan is just 17. Too early to call him up. Let him train with Prabhakar and co. so that he can learn the tricks of the trade for a year or two. Seen Salvi already, he is rubbish. VRV...i don't know what to make of him. I have seen him bowl superbly (EurAsia Series) but he hasn't really made an impression in top flight international cricket. What is Pankaj Singh like, Chandan ?

[Chandan]

Pankaj is is a very well built and medium-pacer from Rajasthan but in Challengers I saw him bowling only in high 120s. I don't know if that is the maximum speed he can extract but it was speed he was bowling at. He gets good movement in air and has got better success than Sharma in A tours as well as at Ranji. Salvi seems to be bowling with venom and getting Sehwag twice in the space of two days is no joke. When you saw him he had lost his venom because he wasn't fully fit then. When I saw him at his peak in 2002 season, he seemed to be a very hostile bowler with good pace. It seems that he has attained the same thing back after a series of injuries!

[flamy]

I'm hoping to see something in the pace department in the ICL tournament. Whether they will be drafted in or not, atleast I wanna see Abid Nabi bowl. He was touted to be the fastest,but then so was munaf :whatchutalkingabout

[fineleg]

Salvi seems to be bowling with venom and getting Sehwag twice in the space of two days is no joke. When you saw him he had lost his venom because he wasn't fully fit then. !

Haha...I dunno how good Salvi is at present,but if getting "current form Walking-wicket" Sehwag out even 10 times is something to be proud of, hahaha Chandan: even if anyone of ICF folks bowl, sehwag will get out twice in two days...he is that pathetic now

[Chandan]

That way, we still end up with just 7 bowlers: Zaheer Irfan RPS Sree Munaf Agarkar Gagandeep. So this is the only list we have. Maybe Ishant and YoMahesh be ready by next year!!

Who are the promising pace bowlers this season? 1.Pradeep Sangwan: left arm seamer from Delhi 2.Avishkar Salvi : right hand medium pacer from Mumbai 3. VRV Singh : the much castigated seamer from Punjab 4.Vijay YoMahesh: Right arm seamer from TN 5.Ishant Sharma: Right arm seamer from Delhi Can you name others who have not been included in the bench in earlier post?

I'll revise the list and exclude Gagandeep Singh because he is not even fit to play for Punjab these days, let alone being considered for national team. 1.Zaheer 2.Irfan 3.RPS 4.Sree 5.Munaf 6.Agarkar And then the prospects: 1.Pradeep Sangwan: left arm seamer from Delhi 2.Avishkar Salvi : right hand medium pacer from Mumbai 3. VRV Singh : the much castigated seamer from Punjab 4.Vijay YoMahesh: Right arm seamer from TN 5.Ishant Sharma: Right arm seamer from Delhi 6.Pankaj Singh: Right arm seamer from Rajasthan. As we can see the bowlers who can be used in tests are very rare. Will BCCI do something to groom these youngsters? Have I forgotten anyone? Why has every one forgotten that U-19 bowler bowler Abu Nacheem Ahmad who was the partner of YoMahesh? And I don't even know how is he doing in the plate group!

[Ram]

Please add these two names to the list prospective seamers 1) Cricketics 2) Marirs_mania Ok , sorry. I didnt mean to mess around in a serious thread.

[fineleg]

Will BCCI do something to groom these youngsters?

no. hope mrf does though!

[Chandan]

Today I read an article about Prasad, our bowling coach and his views: My job is to think for them: Prasad Rakesh Rao It is important to understand the bowlers’ capabilities My job is 24x7, 365 days in a year Our bowlers’ meetings have become more purposeful — Photo: S. Subramanium BRAINSTORMING: Venkatesh Prasad’s inputs have been of immense help to the Indian bowlers. Here Harbhajan Singh and Anil Kumble are all ears to his advice. NEW DELHI: These days, Venkatesh Prasad is a busy man. He spends time reading books on coaching, building team spirit, man management skills and much more. When not at the “nets”, this lanky Bangalorean is studying video-footage on his laptop so that his observations can make the difference. A bowling coach since India’s tour of Bangladesh in May this year, Prasad has been constantly working to get better at his job. Praise has come from captain Anil Kumble and several former cricketers for the Indian bowlers for restricting Pakistan to sub-250 total in both innings of the first Test. A part of the credit is surely due to Prasad. “Once the day’s play is over, it is time for the players to unwind. But my job is 24x7, 365 days in a year,” said Prasad who seems completely engrossed in his new role with some long-term objectives for the benefit of the bowlers. Enjoying it How does he find his new job? “I am enjoying it immensely. It is great to see bowlers who have the desire to improve. They come to the nets with a specific purpose, certain goals. When a bowler treats a net session like a match, his skills grow. “For me to help a bowler, it is important to understand his capabilities. Once I identify the areas where he can get better and suggest corrective measures, it is also important how and when I communicate with them. “I may have the knowledge but I have to keep it simple to put it across. “I have to get into the minds of the bowlers to understand their mental and physical state” the 38-year-old told The Hindu. For someone who took 96 wickets from 33 Tests and 196 wickets from 161 one-day international matches between 1994 and 2001, Prasad feels bowlers need to be “technically correct” or else they will break down. Creating space “As a coach, I need to get to the root cause of the technical flaw. Before I offer my suggestions, I try to create the ‘space’ for a bowler to share what he thinks he is trying to do and why he is not able to achieve the desired results. “The more we share with each other, better will be the comfort level. So I have to understand each and every bowler, his potential, ability to communicate and mindset. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. But I continue thinking of the ways in which I can make it simple for the bowlers,” explained Prasad. What impresses him the most? “The way bowlers like S. Sreesanth, R. P. Singh, Irfan Pathan and Zaheer Khan keep the seam position at the point of release. Their release is awesome, seam going straight. When I played, I had to really work on it. I even changed the action for movement.” “My job is to think for them. Make them understand that the game is played in the mind. Our bowlers’ meetings have become more purposeful. There is a strong bonding among the players and I am working on making them tactically stronger,” Prasad said. --------------------------------------------------------------- Nah! Not very impressed! Why has he not said anything about Munaf? How did he find his "intensity" this time. He also doesn't mention anything about the fringe bowlers such as Praveen Kumar and how can he be improved by correcting the technical flaws in the action? I think NCA will have to hire a good bowling coach to let these fringe bowlers improve and maximise their potential as RPS improved by leaps and bounds after just a two weeks stint at Leicestershire. Otherwise he too was a bowler who could bowl only in 120s when he first came to the scene! I thinks all these guys, Kumar, Pankaj Singh and VRV Singh can improve considerably if guided properly! If you want you can read about the following following bowlers: New Kid on the block: Pradeep Sangwan Progress of Irfan Pathan in the longer version of the game

[maggot_brain]

It's good that these days we don't totally rely on spin like we used to. Maybe that's why we're performing better overseas than we have for a very long time. We need an express bowler though desparately, someone who can bowl 90mph+ consistently.