Sachin=GOD Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Not really' date=' because BJP went into the elections with Vajpayee as the candidate, he was not foisted post elections. Deve Gowda or Gujral are better examples.[/quote'] his name was put forward for leadership in the mid 90s when Advani realised that his own hardcore Hindutva image won't be acceptable to the allies so in a way Vajpayee was selected with the expectation that a consensus could be built around his name in the future.
randomGuy Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 There's a small problem of winning in states like UP etc. BJP was lagging in 4th position in UP last time... Look, Modi will never become PM of India.. The best he can do is to become a cabinet minister if at all NDA manages to win... Right, they have to get more seats than they ever got under vajpayee. If they get 170-190 seats, most likely, rajnath singh or sushma swaraj wouldbe the concensus candidate for pm post. Under rajnath's pm-ship, modi might take a cabinet post,.
bulbul Posted July 4, 2013 Author Posted July 4, 2013 Not really' date=' because BJP went into the elections with Vajpayee as the candidate, he was not foisted post elections. Deve Gowda or Gujral are better examples.[/quote'] DG and Gujral are also not right exampls,they became PMs because there is no single party is in lead position of thier group. Here discussion is if NDA came to power and BJP is in lead position.
seedhi Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 his name was put forward for leadership in the mid 90s when Advani realised that his own hardcore Hindutva image won't be acceptable to the allies so in a way Vajpayee was selected with the expectation that a consensus could be built around his name in the future.That is a qualitatively different situation from a leader leading his party to 180+ seats and then being shunted out in favor of another person to gain the support of potential allies. It will be utter humiliation for the party as well as the leader.
Precambrian Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Lol, seems you have absolutely no clue about what happened during the mid nineties. BJP fought the 96 elections projecting unanimously ABV as the PM candidate. There was absolutely no question of Advani considered for the premier post something advani himself wholeheartedly accepted and acknowledged.
Sachin=GOD Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 That is a qualitatively different situation from a leader leading his party to 180+ seats and then being shunted out in favor of another person to gain the support of potential allies. It will be utter humiliation for the party as well as the leader. right now with around 10 months to go for the elections we already know that Modi will not be acceptable to a lot of potential allies so its his fault if he imagines that being the leader of the BJP campaign would automatically mean being the PM in case the BJP wins enough seats. Make no mistake about it, if the BJP wins enough seats and then the allies say that Modi is not acceptable, he'll be dumped immediately in favor of someone who is acceptable and more importantly, who can run a coalition Govt.
The Outsider Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Not really' date=' because BJP went into the elections with Vajpayee as the candidate, he was not foisted post elections. Deve Gowda or Gujral are better examples.[/quote'] It's a matter of semantics about the definition of a consensus candidate. One of the reasons Vajpayee was chosen was because he could get allies. If it was Advani there would have been very little allies and probably no government.
Sachin=GOD Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Lol' date=' seems you have absolutely no clue about what happened during the mid nineties. BJP fought the 96 elections projecting unanimously ABV as the PM candidate. There was absolutely no question of Advani considered for the premier post something advani himself wholeheartedly accepted and acknowledged.[/quote'] Advani, more than anyone else, was responsible for the BJP's dramatic rise in the late 80s and early 90s so he was the leader of the party but when they decided to create NDA they needed a person who could attract allies and was moderate hence Vajpayee was chosen as the leader.
FischerTal Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Advani' date=' more than anyone else, was responsible for the BJP's dramatic rise in the late 80s and early 90s so he was the leader of the party but when they decided to create NDA they needed a person who could attract allies and was moderate hence Vajpayee was chosen as the leader.[/quote'] lol, advani was deputy PM, all secular parties had no problem with him being 2nd most powerful person in Indian government. Its all a facade that allies only want an acceptable leader. advani was running that govt after vajpayee's health deteriorated, even though vajpayee was still PM officially.
seedhi Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 It's a matter of semantics about the definition of a consensus candidate. One of the reasons Vajpayee was chosen was because he could get allies. If it was Advani there would have been very little allies and probably no government.That was a matter internal to the BJP. But once a party goes to the people with a PM candidate and gets votes in his name, then it would be a betrayal of the mandate of the voters to dump him. Not to mention the humiliation suffered. There was no humiliation of Advani by projecting Vajpayee. Vajpayee always had a high stature and was more senior than Advani and popular amongst the cadre as well.
The Outsider Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 That is a qualitatively different situation from a leader leading his party to 180+ seats and then being shunted out in favor of another person to gain the support of potential allies. It will be utter humiliation for the party as well as the leader. BJP had to seats in '84. It was mainly due to Advani that they went to 80 in '89 and 120 in '91(the '91 election was not in any alliance, so this was a big thing). Yet he was "shunted" out because potential allies would not accept him.
Sachin=GOD Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 That was a matter internal to the BJP. But once a party goes to the people with a PM candidate and gets votes in his name' date=' then it would be a betrayal of the mandate of the voters to dump him. Not to mention the humiliation suffered. There was no humiliation of Advani by projecting Vajpayee. Vajpayee always had a high stature and was more senior than Advani and popular amongst the cadre as well.[/quote'] people vote for the party, not for individuals. It would be an even bigger betrayal of the people if the BJP wins enough seats but doesn't form the Govt simply because the allies did not accept Modi's name (which in any case is known to the people and to the BJP even now).
bulbul Posted July 4, 2013 Author Posted July 4, 2013 Vajpayee always had a high stature and was more senior than Advani and popular amongst the cadre as well. exactly. Now Modi is the tallest leader in BJP and no one is even distant second to him,so we cannot apply Vajpayee/Advani equation here.
FischerTal Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 people vote for the party' date= not for individuals. It would be an even bigger betrayal of the people if the BJP wins enough seats but doesn't form the Govt simply because the allies did not accept Modi's name (which in any case is known to the people and to the BJP even now). have you heard of the Nehru-Gandhi family?
Sachin=GOD Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 lol' date=' advani was deputy PM, all secular parties had no problem with him being 2nd most powerful person in Indian government. Its all a facade that allies only want an acceptable leader. advani was running that govt after vajpayee's health deteriorated, even though vajpayee was still PM officially.[/quote'] there is a HUGE difference between PM and Deputy PM. Besides, Vajpayee wasn't a puppet like MMS so the allies knew that he had a veto and he was a moderating influence over Advani - right now as far as the allies are concerned, Modi is not acceptable (as Advani wasn't in the 90s) and Advani is acceptable to them.
seedhi Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 BJP had to seats in '84. It was mainly due to Advani that they went to 80 in '89 and 120 in '91(the '91 election was not in any alliance' date=' so this was a big thing). Yet he was "shunted" out because potential allies would not accept him.[/quote']Who shunted him out ? He himself stepped out of the race in favor of Vajpayee. I think he resigned from the Lok Sabha in the wake of the Hawala scandal and thus Vajpayee become the de facto face of the party before 1996 elections, which the BJP then fought under Vajpayee's leadership.
FischerTal Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 there is a HUGE difference between PM and Deputy PM. Besides' date= Vajpayee wasn't a puppet like MMS so the allies knew that he had a veto and he was a moderating influence over Advani - right now as far as the allies are concerned, Modi is not acceptable (as Advani wasn't in the 90s) and Advani is acceptable to them. who gave the go-ahead for Modi to become CM of Gujarat? Did Vajpayee stop that? NO because his political influence was waning when his health started to deteriorate. As far as acceptability is concerned, Advani is not even acceptable to his party cadre. A general without troops is going to lose easily.
seedhi Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 people vote for the party' date=' not for individuals. It would be an even bigger betrayal of the people if the BJP wins enough seats but doesn't form the Govt simply because the allies did not accept Modi's name (which in any case is known to the people and to the BJP even now).[/quote']It could be possible, but I think only if Modi steps aside voluntarily. My main point was that this is still incomparable to the Vajpayee-Advani situation in the BJP where the BJP stuck to its pre-election declared PM candidate.
Sachin=GOD Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Who shunted him out ? He himself stepped out of the race in favor of Vajpayee. I think he resigned from the Lok Sabha in the wake of the Hawala scandal and thus Vajpayee become the de facto face of the party before 1996 elections' date= which the BJP then fought under Vajpayee's leadership. because he had the common sense to see that he would not be acceptable to the allies.
seedhi Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 because he had the common sense to see that he would not be acceptable to the allies.He was also fighting the Hawala charges at that time and had resigned from the Lok Sabha.
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