bulbul Posted July 14, 2013 Posted July 14, 2013 The balance and the importance and preferences that the US has given to its minorities is what made the country so great' date=' united and powerful historically. However, that seems to be the past now, with the same kind of disturbing disunity creeping into the US as in India. And they will be weaker for it[/quote'] Don't assume things and start blabbering. You can ask clarification if you want , I will give.
ravishingravi Posted July 14, 2013 Posted July 14, 2013 Don't assume things and start blabbering. You can ask clarification if you want ' date=' I will give.[/quote'] Thats his style. Why fight on facts when you can yap BS ?
seedhi Posted July 14, 2013 Posted July 14, 2013 The balance and the importance and preferences that the US has given to its minorities is what made the country so great' date= united and powerful historically. However, that seems to be the past now, with the same kind of disturbing disunity creeping into the US as in India. And they will be weaker for it:hysterical::hysterical: .. this has to be a joke ...
Jersey #10 Posted July 14, 2013 Posted July 14, 2013 When someone's mistake is taking a life, he cannot be innocent or let go scott free. Is a life that cheap in the US? As I said before, US seems to be in regression. Once it was the bastion of human rights and progressive thinking. Lately we have ridiculous gun laws, life being really cheap and strange verdicts by US courts. Taking an un-armed man's life is OK now. Just recently there was a verdict where it was upheld that a boss was right to fire his secretary, just for being more attractive. unsurprisingly, entire jury was male, just as in this case 5 out of 5 women where white. US is a country which has lost in way, and not just economically Sure the verdict is hard to digest for many. At the same time, it's wrong to consider Martin as the most innocent, defenseless kid in the world. There were punches thrown back and forth and in fact, Martin had beat the crap out of Zimmerman by the time the unneeded killing happened. Martin should have simply cooperated with the watchman instead of tackling him to the ground and punching his head off. Now, that's just wrong. Any normal kid would at least try and talk it out. To me personally, Martin comes out as an angry kid and mind you, 17 year olds can be very strong. Huh, how does the kid being a thug has to do with anything? A man followed and then shot a defenseless kid. That is the upshot. Maybe in US lives are a dime a dozen Yes, lets hope there is no racial violence, things look fine for now. Someone living in America can tell Not very defenseless as he fought back and fought back very well. The gun did not come into the scene until Martin would not stop banging Zimmerman's head into the concrete over and over again. In defense, Zimmerman had to do something and since he was a misfit to fight it out with a 17 year old he did what he did. The only thing is that the murder could have been avoided.
suraj Posted July 14, 2013 Posted July 14, 2013 Of Course Americans love to make everything a racial issue but the biggest issue here is around the use of guns- Zimmerman and other cowards like him hide behind the "gun bravado" to commit senseless acts of violence. Why not a stunt gun, baseball bat or pepper spray to defend yourselves and if you think you are so weak that you cannot defend yourself using these against a 17 year old then stay in your freaking car dude instead of acting macho & chasing a boy. At the very least should have been prosecuted for unlawful discharge of weapon - idiot mental case
Crookbond Posted July 14, 2013 Posted July 14, 2013 Of Course Americans love to make everything a racial issue but the biggest issue here is around the use of guns- Zimmerman and other cowards like him hide behind the "gun bravado" to commit senseless acts of violence. Why not a stunt gun' date=' baseball bat or pepper spray to defend yourselves and[b'] if you think you are so weak that you cannot defend yourself using these against a 17 year old then stay in your freaking car dude instead of acting macho & chasing a boy. At the very least should have been prosecuted for unlawful discharge of weapon - idiot mental case Do NOT make this a 17-year old vs. 29-year old argument - it does not matter. There are 17-year olds out there who are much stronger than a 30-year old as well. Don't bulk up just for the sake of it.
Crookbond Posted July 14, 2013 Posted July 14, 2013 The Events Leading to the Shooting of Trayvon Martin http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/02/us/the-events-leading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin.html?_r=0
Brainfade Posted July 14, 2013 Posted July 14, 2013 Of Course Americans love to make everything a racial issue but the biggest issue here is around the use of guns- Zimmerman and other cowards like him hide behind the "gun bravado" to commit senseless acts of violence. Why not a stunt gun, baseball bat or pepper spray to defend yourselves and if you think you are so weak that you cannot defend yourself using these against a 17 year old then stay in your freaking car dude instead of acting macho & chasing a boy. At the very least should have been prosecuted for unlawful discharge of weapon - idiot mental case Therein lies the rub. The State brought trumped-up murder charges and the jury found him not guilty of those charges. They can only pass a verdict on that charge. If, from the very outset, the State had pursued a lesser charge, GZ would be locked up several years for his idiocy. As it stands, the State: (1) Brought zero justice for Trayvon Martin (2) Adeed GZ to the list of walking-dead (3) Raised racial tensions and worked up a media frenzy in an already racially charged environment. Bravo!
bulbul Posted July 14, 2013 Posted July 14, 2013 http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/14/us/zimmerman-why-this-verdict/index.html
Swing_n_Speed Posted July 14, 2013 Posted July 14, 2013 http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/14/us/zimmerman-why-this-verdict/index.html The top comment says it all: "This was a sad situation all around. Martin didn't have to die and Zimmerman didn't have to lose everything to the circus surrounding this case. But at the end of the day, following someone is not a crime. Regarding someone as suspicious and calling the police is not a crime. Carrying a gun for personal protection is not a crime. Assaulting someone is. And Martin paid the ultimate price for that. Truly tragic. I'm glad this is over, for one. Hopefully these silly racial divides will fade in time." I now hope Zimmerman sues the hell out of CNN for falsely accusing him, posting his personal info on air, character assassination...If Zimmerman does not own CNN by months end it will be a shame.
Swing_n_Speed Posted July 14, 2013 Posted July 14, 2013 Huh, how does the kid being a thug has to do with anything? A man followed and then shot a defenseless kid. That is the upshot. Maybe in US lives are a dime a dozen Yes, lets hope there is no racial violence, things look fine for now. Someone living in America can tell Errr The prosecution could not prove that Zimmerman followed Martin. If you look deep into the case, there is no thread of evidence, none that backed that it had started as just a fight. Martin seemed to have charged him, which makes sense to me. Why would Zimmerman, in his neighborhood, attack him first, if he wanted to shoot the guy, he would not have waited to get all beaten down. This case is not about a black kid that got shot by a white latino guy. Its about some aggressive teen that made a violent move on a neighborhood watch who happened to be armed. Tragedy followed. -------------------------X------X------------------X--------X-----------------X------X---------------X---------------------X 1. GZ had a broken nose and there was evidence on TMs fingers/hands of hitting GZ. 2. NO evidence on GZs hands at all. 3. He followed him and then he quit and lost sight of TM. 4. Four minutes for TM to go in the door where he was staying but left instead (according to girl on phone) and started walking again where he and GZ ran into each other as GZ was walking toward another area. 5. TM takes the aggressive move to punch GZ (#1); 6 GZ had called 911 because TM was walking in the grass and around the buildings rather than on the walkway during the rain and that looked odd What TM did that was foolish was to turn away from his house and go find GZ and attack him. Unarmed he was not; fists are often the "weapon" of harm and sometimes death. This was a tragedy, but it was not murder, nor manslaughter. (PS These are comments on cnn that seem quite accurate)
Jersey #10 Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 An entire nation rallied for T. Martin's wrongful murder but no one seems to care about the kids dying of hunger all around the globe! Ignorance at it's best Let's just say for the sake of it that T. Martin was man slaughtered but it has already happened. How about we spend so much effort on other lives that can be saved?
suraj Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 An entire nation rallied for T. Martin's wrongful murder but no one seems to care about the kids dying of hunger all around the globe! Ignorance at it's best Let's just say for the sake of it that T. Martin was man slaughtered but it has already happened. How about we spend so much effort on other lives that can be saved? What kind of twisted logic is this?? There are hundreds of issues we face- we can always say why focus on this one & not another one; this can go for any and everything
suraj Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 Errr The prosecution could not prove that Zimmerman followed Martin. If you look deep into the case, there is no thread of evidence, none that backed that it had started as just a fight. Martin seemed to have charged him, which makes sense to me. Why would Zimmerman, in his neighborhood, attack him first, if he wanted to shoot the guy, he would not have waited to get all beaten down. This case is not about a black kid that got shot by a white latino guy. Its about some aggressive teen that made a violent move on a neighborhood watch who happened to be armed. Tragedy followed. -------------------------X------X------------------X--------X-----------------X------X---------------X---------------------X 1. GZ had a broken nose and there was evidence on TMs fingers/hands of hitting GZ. 2. NO evidence on GZs hands at all. 3. He followed him and then he quit and lost sight of TM. 4. Four minutes for TM to go in the door where he was staying but left instead (according to girl on phone) and started walking again where he and GZ ran into each other as GZ was walking toward another area. 5. TM takes the aggressive move to punch GZ (#1); 6 GZ had called 911 because TM was walking in the grass and around the buildings rather than on the walkway during the rain and that looked odd What TM did that was foolish was to turn away from his house and go find GZ and attack him. Unarmed he was not; fists are often the "weapon" of harm and sometimes death. This was a tragedy, but it was not murder, nor manslaughter. (PS These are comments on cnn that seem quite accurate) Where the heck are you getting this from- even Zimmerman's lawyers admitted he followed him
Desi Cartman Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 He could have left the scene and was asked to do it, he still went after the kid.
Iconoclast Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 Was expected considering the jury was comprised of six fat, redneck housewives. America needs to ditch the jury system or at least make it so that you have to be intelligent and accomplished to serve in a jury.
bulbul Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 Was expected considering the jury was comprised of six fat, redneck housewives. America needs to ditch the jury system or at least make it so that you have to be intelligent and accomplished to serve in a jury. They took 2 weeks to decide on that jury. by the way even US president was in support of Martin.
Jersey #10 Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 Was expected considering the jury was comprised of six fat, redneck housewives. America needs to ditch the jury system or at least make it so that you have to be intelligent and accomplished to serve in a jury. I just had that conversation with my grandpa. The jury should have some sort of knowledge about the law. Just anyone off the street randomly isn't really going to care or know much about the case hence you get ridiculous decisions like these. The jury should consist of educated people - preferably with people who have some background of knowing the laws
suraj Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 He could have left the scene and was asked to do it' date=' he still went after the kid.[/quote'] Exactly-- and he represents many of these cowardly young-middling pseudo-macho gun toting American men who will only get encouragement through this decision :((
ravishingravi Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 When someone's mistake is taking a life, he cannot be innocent or let go scott free. Is a life that cheap in the US? As I said before, US seems to be in regression. Once it was the bastion of human rights and progressive thinking. Lately we have ridiculous gun laws, life being really cheap and strange verdicts by US courts. Taking an un-armed man's life is OK now. Just recently there was a verdict where it was upheld that a boss was right to fire his secretary, just for being more attractive. unsurprisingly, entire jury was male, just as in this case 5 out of 5 women where white. US is a country which has lost in way, and not just economically On The Killing Of Trayvon Martin By George Zimmerman I interrupt your regularly scheduled programming to offer some thoughts on the verdict of innocent for George Zimmerman: 1.) Last year -- after Zimmerman was arrested -- I wrote something hoping that he would be convicted. A commenter wrote in to object, saying that arguing for his arrest was justifiable. Arguing for his conviction was not. I acknowledged the point at the time. The wisdom of it seems even more appropriate today. 2.) I think the jury basically got it right. The only real eyewitness to the death of Trayvon Martin was the man who killed him. At no point did I think that the state proved second degree murder. I also never thought they proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he acted recklessly. They had no ability to counter his basic narrative, because there were no other eye-witnesses. 3.) The idea that Zimmerman got out of the car to check the street signs, was ambushed by a 17-year old kid with no violent history who told him he "you're going to die tonight" strikes me as very implausible. It strikes me as much more plausible that Martin was being followed by a strange person, that the following resulted in a confrontation, that Martin was getting the best of Zimmerman in the confrontation, and that Zimmerman then shot him. But I didn't see the confrontation. No one else really saw the confrontation. Except George Zimmerman. I'm not even clear that situation I outlined would result in conviction. 4.) I think Andrew Cohen is right -- trials don't work as strict "moral surrogates." Everything that is immoral is not illegal--nor should it be. I want to live in a society that presumes innocence. I want to live in that society even when I feel that a person should be punished. 5.) I think you should read everything my friend Jelani Cobb has written about this case. 6.) I think the message of this episode is unfortunate. By Florida law, in any violent confrontation ending in a disputed act of lethal self-defense, without eye-witnesses, the advantage goes to the living. An intelligent, self-interested observer of this case, who happens to live in Florida, would not be wrong to do as George Zimmerman did -- buy a gun, master the finer points of Florida self-defense law, and then wait. 7.) Circling back to the first point, it's worth remembering that what caused a national outcry was not the possibility of George Zimmerman being found innocent, but that there would be no trial at all. This case was really unique because of what happend with the Sanford police. If you doubt this, ask yourself if you know the name "Jordan Davis." Then ask yourself how many protests and national media reports you've seen about him. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/07/on-the-killing-of-trayvon-martin-by-george-zimmerman/277773/
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