rkt.india Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 almost all indian movies are caricatures and thats their selling point. Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 almost all indian movies are caricatures and thats their selling point. I can list around 20 or so brilliantly made Indian movies without caricatures. Does that count in your definition of "almost" ? Please tell me the caricature in Masoom or Paar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 Mughal-e-Azam was not over the top and caricature filled - that was the context of the times. No one is really sure how it was at that time. I found full of OTT drama and dialogues. Sholay was with the Jagdeep and Asraani roles but it was just so wonderfully made otherwise that for me it overrides those caricatures. No just Asrani and Jagdeep, but sambha, kaaliya, and even Gabbar all were pretty much OTT caricatures. Lagaan was a piece of $***** on all counts - I mean how can you even begin to consider a movie seriously where all kinds of apaahij desis defeat goras and then the gori breaks into a song and dance routine - in multiple languages - to express her love for Aamir Khan. It was an Indian film so they showed and made it as an Indian film and targeted Indian audience. I dont think when they made film they had anything like Oscars or anything like that. In India, caricatures work more so that is the product of what audience like those songs, etc. Same people help films like Ready, Bodyguard, Dabanng, and CE become blockbusters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Sorry, dude. Might be a problem with me but I still don't get that part. And the best guy Amir is related to, as far the acting part is concerned, is Ray Liotta. I find Liotta better than Amir any day but if Amir comes close to anyone with his technique, then its him. Ok let me throw a couple of examples your way.....deniro in meet the parents was really good,but the role was a cakewalk for him but his talent is judged based on taxi driver,etc. You can't call srk a good actor because he doesn't have the diverse body of work to amount to anything....on the other hand aamir has pulled off a wide range of roles ....was he amazing,debatable but did he pull it off without being awkward,yes. An actor is judged on his body of work,unless he has a diverse body of work,you can't judge him. Ray liotta might be a better actor than aamir but he is not a superstar like aamir is in India,that's why I brought the Johnny depp comparison. Hope it makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Mughal-e-Azam was not over the top and caricature filled - that was the context of the times. Sholay was with the Jagdeep and Asraani roles but it was just so wonderfully made otherwise that for me it overrides those caricatures. Lagaan was a piece of $***** on all counts - I mean how can you even begin to consider a movie seriously where all kinds of apaahij desis defeat goras and then the gori breaks into a song and dance routine - in multiple languages - to express her love for Aamir Khan. So you have no problem Salim and anarkali singing songs and Akbar being a typical Hindi movie villain dad??? It's a musical and it is supposed to have songs and there is something called suspension of disbelief when you watch a movie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 No one is really sure how it was at that time. I found full of OTT drama and dialogues. But look at the context of Mughal-e-Azam before branding it as a caricature and OTT - watch period dramas from Western cinema from the same era to see if there was anything OTT in Mughal-e-Azam. No just Asrani and Jagdeep, but sambha, kaaliya, and even Gabbar all were pretty much OTT caricatures. I agree with Sambha and Kaaliya being caricatures, but Gabbar? Are you serious? It's probably the best evil role of Indian cinema. But the broader point is that I agree Sholay had caricatures, but it was so wonderfully made otherwise that they can all pale in significance. It was an Indian film so they showed and made it as an Indian film and targeted Indian audience. I dont think when they made film they had anything like Oscars or anything like that. In India, caricatures work more so that is the product of what audience like those songs, etc. Same people help films like Ready, Bodyguard, Dabanng, and CE become blockbusters. Monsoon Wedding was also an Indian film released in the same year as Lagaan. Which do you prefer? It was due to Aamir Khan's politics that Monsoon Wedding could not make it to the Oscars that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 I can list around 20 or so brilliantly made Indian movies without caricatures. Does that count in your definition of "almost" ? Please tell me the caricature in Masoom or Paar? Isn't 20 a too small a number when we make 500 plus films every year? Minimum 5000 films a decade. A larger number of Indian films are not made on your thinking but what the audience would like to watch which makes them earn 100 crores. Indain films are liked for what they are, not what they should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 So you have no problem Salim and anarkali singing songs and Akbar being a typical Hindi movie villain dad??? No, I don't because that was the norm of making movies in those times. In the modern context, even movies without a Saleem and Anarkali number have a good chance of being a success commercially and critically. It's a musical and it is supposed to have songs and there is something called suspension of disbelief when you watch a movie Lagaan is a musical? Did I interpret that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 Monsoon Wedding was also an Indian film released in the same year as Lagaan. Which do you prefer? It was due to Aamir Khan's politics that Monsoon Wedding could not make it to the Oscars that year. Monsoon Wedding was made by Meera Nayar who is considered less Indian but more American here and that was the biggest reason Lagaan was picked ahead of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 But look at the context of Mughal-e-Azam before branding it as a caricature and OTT - watch period dramas from Western cinema from the same era to see if there was anything OTT in Mughal-e-Azam. I agree with Sambha and Kaaliya being caricatures, but Gabbar? Are you serious? It's probably the best evil role of Indian cinema. But the broader point is that I agree Sholay had caricatures, but it was so wonderfully made otherwise that they can all pale in significance. Monsoon Wedding was also an Indian film released in the same year as Lagaan. Which do you prefer? It was due to Aamir Khan's politics that Monsoon Wedding could not make it to the Oscars that year. I haven't watched monsoon wedding but if you think Lagaan was stereotypical,so was monsoon wedding from its trailers from what I can see. Lagaan was a unique concept,as a musical it had a great soundtrack,brilliant costumes and great camera work,as a total package way better than any movie that year. Screenplay was engrossing,so what else do you need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 No, I don't because that was the norm of making movies in those times. In the modern context, even movies without a Saleem and Anarkali number have a good chance of being a success commercially and critically. Lagaan is a musical? Did I interpret that right? Yes Lagaan falls under a musical ,so do most Bollywood movies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Isn't 20 a too small a number when we make 500 plus films every year? Minimum 5000 films a decade. A larger number of Indian films are not made on your thinking but what the audience would like to watch which makes them earn 100 crores. Indain films are liked for what they are' date=' not what they should be.[/quote'] I am not arguing about the general quality of Indian films - they are crap. However, my point in that post was that there are certain movies from Bollywood which can give a run for money for any movie from outside their realm. From my experience it's about 1-2 movies per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Monsoon Wedding was made by Meera Nayar who is considered less Indian but more American here and that was the biggest reason Lagaan was picked ahead of it. It's not about here and there - Monsoon Wedding was an Indian production, just like Salaam Bombay was an American production. Monsoon Wedding was perfectly eligible to be nominated for the Oscars, but for Aaamir Khan's netagiri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I haven't watched monsoon wedding but if you think Lagaan was stereotypical,so was monsoon wedding from its trailers from what I can see. Lagaan was a unique concept,as a musical it had a great soundtrack,brilliant costumes and great camera work,as a total package way better than any movie that year. Monsoon Wedding was stereotypical? Dude, just sign off for the night - a movie which explores incest and rape of minors is stereotypical for you? Maybe you should stick to your Lagaans with Bhuvan dancing with a gori, who revolts against her goras. Yes Lagaan falls under a musical ' date='so do most Bollywood movies[/quote'] Oh bhai, a musical is a movie where songs carry the story forward. Which songs in Lagaan carried the story forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 It's not about here and there - Monsoon Wedding was an Indian production' date=' just like Salaam Bombay was an American production. Monsoon Wedding was perfectly eligible to be nominated for the Oscars, but for Aaamir Khan's netagiri.[/quote'] Dude c'mon now....I respect your personal opinion that Lagaan was a bad movie but bringing conspiracy theories is not cool....do you really think monsoon wedding would have made it to the last round at the oscars? Aamir Might have lobbied to get Lagaan as an officially entry but it did make it to the final round where aamir or anyone for the matter of fact have no say.i am proud of the recognition the movie got at an international scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Dude c'mon now....I respect your personal opinion that Lagaan was a bad movie but bringing conspiracy theories is not cool....do you really think monsoon wedding would have made it to the last round at the oscars? Aamir Might have lobbied to get Lagaan as an officially entry but it did make it to the final round where aamir or anyone for the matter of fact have no say.i am proud of the recognition the movie got at an international scale. Monsoon Wedding would have won, not just made it to the last 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Monsoon Wedding was stereotypical? Dude, just sign off for the night - a movie which explores incest and rape of minors is stereotypical for you? Maybe you should stick to your Lagaans with Bhuvan dancing with a gori, who revolts against her goras. Oh bhai, a musical is a movie where songs carry the story forward. Which songs in Lagaan carried the story forward? As I said before I did not watch monsoon wedding,as far as the sensitive theme is concerned it is a commendable message but as far as world recognition goes those themes have been explored in international cinema before and I am not the one to judge but maybe in a better way,I cannot comment on that but purely in terms of filmmaking Lagan had the appeal. Not being insensitive,but that is the way oscars work.if the theme you say m.w explored in a Hollywood movie,it would have been a sure shot winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Chalo bhai.....Lagaan sucked ***** but to my original point aamir>>> srk and no it's not directed at outsider or anyone else for the matter of fact. My personal opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 As I said before I did not watch monsoon wedding,as far as the sensitive theme is concerned it is a commendable message but as far as world recognition goes those themes have been explored in international cinema before and I am not the one to judge but maybe in a better way,I cannot comment on that but purely in terms of filmmaking Lagan had the appeal. Not being insensitive,but that is the way oscars work.if the theme you say m.w explored in a Hollywood movie,it would have been a sure shot winner. As I mentioned in this or some other thread, I saw Monsoon Wedding running for 10+ weeks when I was at Berkeley. And whether right or wrong, those are the people who decide the Oscars - the left wing, tree hugging types as you might call them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Chalo bhai.....Lagaan sucked ***** but to my original point aamir>>> srk and no it's not directed at outsider or anyone else for the matter of fact. My personal opinion Aamir is a better actor than Shahrukh as far as study of the character is concerned. But Shahrukh's natural flair more than makes up for it as demonstrated by not coming from a philimi khaandan. Overall, Shahrukh and Aamir are very mediocre actors, with Shahrukh being decisively better between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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