T420 Champions: India

[Lurker]

Unable to defend what?

Your insinuation that players players play for BCCI and NOT India. Do you confirm/deny that? Secondly do you agree that cricketers are professionals who do a job and get paid to do the job?

You still have not clarified your question - When you are asking me who Tendulkar and Dravid play for are you talking about their internal motivation or official hierarchy?

Lets do both so I know exactly where you are coming from.

Exactly and the fact that they discourage their children from taking up cricket perhaps reflects the fact that cricket is not the big money spinner you are talking about, except for the 20-25 players who manage to reach the top.

lol... Lets pursue your train of thought now. You go completely opposite to what I said and come up with parents discouraging kids because it is not the money spinner. Read that aloud...you do realize that the words - passion, love yada yada - does not feature in there. The reason why, your words, middle class shall discourage kids is because it is not the money spinner. So when a person does ctually reach that pinnacle what is stopping him from taking care of that whole money thingy?

[Guest HariSampath]

I had asked so many times, just HOW many fans have always been loyal to the team in ALL circumstances. Is it possible for a fan to support and be loyal to a team when the team has openly not tried to win a cricket match and instead the batsman preferred to take a single off he last ball to compete a century ? Hosw many of you can excuse this team not trying to get a six off the last ball, saying " well he is not my employee" How many will continue after that match to support the team in the belief that they share the same goals as you do , that of winning. Now, many may say that in such an obvious case as the above NO FAN will excuse that team. In whichever manner you put it, it is an inescapable conclusion that the team indulged in wilful deception of those who believed it. It is not a deficiency of skill, form or luck, but the team not choosing to win. The above extreme example may be easy to relate to in order to understand what we all want. NO ONE wants to see a sachin Tendulkar 100 at the expense of an Indian win. Sachin himself has been repeatedly saying this in England when he kept missing 100s but India was winning, and so he was happy. Now, my point is there is a tendency for players to put self interest ( like the hypothetical single off the last ball) over that of the team ( trying to win. )Now this interest may be a personal landmark, a need to perform for the sake of staying in the team, or just plain money or a combination of all. All these factors are in fact valid interests and perfectly understandable, but shouldn't attain higher priority over the supreme goal of the team winning. And when they do, it is cheating , deliberate cheating with each player having his own agenda, however much it is cloathed as team interest. Let me add something, tghe above hypothetical example , itself sounding so extreme, is nothing compared to what actually happened on a cricket field in this country in front of millions, and shocked all cricket watchers. that day, the Indian cricket team had NO fans, NOT a single fan, no matter how die hard, no matter how passionately mad about cricket they may be and no matter how sincere he may believe his team to be. The whole of India right down to the village rustic felt like throwing a bomb into the ground. I myself was in front of my Tv, watching with disbelief for a while all the time thinking something was wrong, then realised the team was cheating me and all the millions. I kept shouting " fack you...FCK YOU bstrds,.... scrd up scumbals fck all of u... go win, come go win u sonsf o btches or jst leave the stadium... oh this cnt be happening , bstrds,,,can smone KILL them pls "... trust me the whole country, including u would have been saying this. I am just pulling out some details of this game ..... just hold a min...

[beetle]

>>>>>Let me add something, tghe above hypothetical example , itself sounding so extreme, is nothing compared to what actually happened on a cricket field in this country in front of millions, and shocked all cricket watchers. that day, the Indian cricket team had NO fans, NOT a single fan, no matter how die hard, no matter how passionately mad about cricket they may be and no matter how sincere he may believe his team to be. The whole of India right down to the village rustic felt like throwing a bomb into the ground. Mr hari...speak for yourself ...don't assume what others felt about the loss. As for wanting to throw a bomb....that is so sick .... I don't know about others ...but I don't think I would call some one with those thoughts , a cricket fan. I am truely sickened by your post.

[kumble_rocks]

Exactly and the fact that they discourage their children from taking up cricket perhaps reflects the fact that cricket is not the big money spinner you are talking about, except for the 20-25 players who manage to reach the top.

Isn't it a fact that even Ranji players are paid handsomely nowadays. More to the tune of 1 lakh per match. If that's the case , then surely middle class parents will not discourage their kids from taking up cricket at the very least.

[Guest HariSampath]

That day was October 30, 1994 India vs Windies at Kanpur. It was the 44th over or so, with India requiring 257 to win the game had reached 207-5 and Nayan Mongia was in. Manoj Prabhakar was batting 96 or something and with 5 wkts in hand, and India needed around 50 off 36 balls. I mean it was not even a difficult task and we should have been home in the 48/49 over easily. Then it started. Block...block....block...on and on it went. Suddenly the game just stopped. They were not scoring any runs, just blocking. After about 15 balls, after a few singles Prabhakar was 99. Still dot ball after dot ball....both Mongia and Prabhakar never even tried to do anything and finished the game off by finally playing out a maiden over in the 50th. Prabhakar 102 notout, and Mongia had added 5-6 runs in 6 overs They didn't try to get runs, they didnt try to get out India lost. And all we fans stunned . How could this happen ? I mean in front of the world ? how ? why ? Guess what happened after that ? I mean, just put yourself in that situation as fans and if that had happened today, what would be saying ? honestly ? Minimum we would be asking these two players are NEVER selected to play any form of cricket again. Woiuld you all say that they didn't owe us anything bcos they were not our employes ? What should we expect their so called employers to do ? The employers BCCI did NOTHING. Prabhakar and Mongia went on to play for several more years for this team without break which we all want to support unconditionally in ALL circumstances. I am sorry, tell me what will you all have been saying to the team today had it happend today? I would have said "

[The Outsider]

Your insinuation that players players play for BCCI and NOT India. Do you confirm/deny that?

As per the official hierarchy, they play for the BCCI. As for their internal motivations, I have no idea.

Lets do both so I know exactly where you are coming from.

Answered above, but disappointing that you could not extend the basic courtesy of clarifying your question upon being asked for one.

Secondly do you agree that cricketers are professionals who do a job and get paid to do the job?

Of course, I agree. If you read my previous posts addressed to Hari, I've said the same thing.

Read that aloud...you do realize that the words - passion, love yada yada - does not feature in there. The reason why, your words, middle class shall discourage kids is because it is not the money spinner. So when a person does ctually reach that pinnacle what is stopping him from taking care of that whole money thingy?

So is your argument that after fighting many battles with their parents and the society and working hard to play cricket at the top level, these people suddenly become money hungry? Perhaps, it does for some of them and not for others. Without knowing the individual, I wouldn't know.

[Lurker]

Yep I remember that sham of a game. Mongia/Prabhakar neither scored not got out...just stayed there and defended :wilted_rose:

[The Outsider]

Isn't it a fact that even Ranji players are paid handsomely nowadays. More to the tune of 1 lakh per match. If that's the case ' date=' then surely middle class parents will not discourage their kids from taking up cricket at the very least.[/quote'] That's true, KR, not sure of the exact amount but its pretty decent now, but it's still very recent and still only accounts for around 300-400 cricketers. 10 times more people join IIT every year.

[Lurker]

As per the official hierarchy, they play for the BCCI. As for their internal motivations, I have no idea.

So it was essentially the same as I said before - they play for BCCI and NOT India. Lets close this argument since we both seem to be repeating ourselves. I obviously find that a ridiculous notion(players playing for a board and not country) but whatever catches your fancy. As per internal motivations I say they do it for money, you say nothing. So again lets leave it there since I dont possibly see how we can reach anywhere else.

So is your argument that after fighting many battles with their parents and the society and working hard to play cricket at the top level, these people suddenly become money hungry? Perhaps, it does for some of them and not for others. Without knowing the individual, I wouldn't know.

I see a glaring contradiction in your viewpoint. One one hand you admit these players are professionals who get paid to do the job, and on the other hand you assume that making money automatically is a sign of greed(money hungry your words not mine). Now help me understand this. If you are a Professional who gets paid to do the job what is going to be your single biggest motivation?? Would you want to make more money or would you want to make any less? xxx

[coffee_rules]

the players are of course answerable to the fans as they are the paying customers. it is like an airline. let's say the airline is the BCCI' date=' the hostess and the pilot are like the players and the fans are like the passengers. who do you think the hostesses and the pilots are answerable to? The board of directors and CEO of the airline or to the passengers or both? The answer is both.[/quote'] First of all, the cricket players are not serving the fans, nor or fans paying for any service. The fans get entertained on a good day out. They pay for that to the BCCI (gate money). The team is employed by the BCCI. The fans are not shareholders of a Public company (BCCI) for BCCI to be answerable to the fans.

[yoda]

First of all, the cricket players are not serving the fans, nor or fans paying for any service. The fans get entertained on a good day out. They pay for that to the BCCI (gate money). The team is employed by the BCCI. The fans are not shareholders of a Public company (BCCI) for BCCI to be answerable to the fans.

we are the customers. every company is answerable to it's customers. if you make a lousy product and sell it with defects you need to recall it, issue an apology and what not.

[The Outsider]

I obviously find that a ridiculous notion(players playing for a board and not country) but whatever catches your fancy.

You might find it ridiculous, but the fact remains that in the official hierarchy BCCI are the employers and players are employees.

One one hand you admit these players are professionals who get paid to do the job, and on the other hand you assume that making money automatically is a sign of greed(money hungry your words not mine).

I never said it's greed or wrong. They have worked hard to reach the level and deserve whatever financial benefits they can derive from their position through legitimate means.

Now help me understand this. If you are a Professional who gets paid to do the job what is going to be your single biggest motivation?? Would you want to make more money or would you want to make any less?

Speaking from personal experience I have swung both ways. I worked as a post doc for two years when I could have earned more in the industry, then last year I did move into the industry. I was a professional in both cases but priorities were different. So different people, different strokes.

[beetle]

I really don't understand this bit about players apologising. why should they?How does it help other than some kind of an ego massage for the fans..?

[coffee_rules]

we are the customers. every company is answerable to it's customers. if you make a lousy product and sell it with defects you need to recall it' date=' issue an apology and what not.[/quote'] We are the viewing public, not any different than viewing movies. If the movie is bad, you will not get your money back. If you complain to the makerts, they will ask you to not go to the movies.

[Guest HariSampath]

>>>>>Let me add something' date=' tghe above hypothetical example , itself sounding so extreme, is nothing compared to what actually happened on a cricket field in this country in front of millions, and shocked all cricket watchers. [b']that day, the Indian cricket team had NO fans, NOT a single fan, no matter how die hard, no matter how passionately mad about cricket they may be and no matter how sincere he may believe his team to be. The whole of India right down to the village rustic felt like throwing a bomb into the ground. Mr hari...speak for yourself ...don't assume what others felt about the loss. As for wanting to throw a bomb....that is so sick .... I don't know about others ...but I don't think I would call some one with those thoughts , a cricket fan. I am truely sickened by your post.

I am sorry about that language but please bear with me for a moment. How repulsive is this ?. Try to put yourself in this situation. October 30, 1994. India playing Windies at Kanpur. Whole nation watching. Score reads India 207-5 and needing around 50 runs in 6 overs a rather easy task that which can be finished within the 49th over we all would think, we are chasing 257 to win. Manoj Prabhakar is playing on 97 or something and Nayan Mongia is batting. Suddenly everything comes to a standstill. The batsmen start blocking the ball with NO ATTEMPT to sciore runs. For a couple of minutes I was puzzled, then it went on and on...dot ball after dot ball.n o run. And both batsmen were defending the ball, not even attempting a stroke. They took a couple of singles and Prabhakar reached a hundred. On and on it went before hundreds of millions of horrified fans. Finally calmly these two played out the 50 overs, the last one was a maiden over. All thru, I was cussing them, yelling, knowing they were doing it deliberately, everone in the country including the fielding team were stunned. India lost. 211-5 after 50, last 6 overs producing 7-8 runs or something and with the 5 wkts intact What do you think you would have done ? All of you ? come on, be honest. Support that ODI team ? how ? why ? be loyal to them ? Would you all say " they are not anserable to us as we don't employ them" Shouldn't their "employers" BCCI do something ? anything ? I mean isnt this like shovung a finger in front of our collective faces and saying " Now what will you do.,. "... Guess what the BCCI did , shouldnt these players in that ODI eleven be dropped for all cricket matches in this country forever ? BCCI did NOTHING. These players and that team continued to represent India and played for years without a break. Now tell me, if my language was so repulsive ( yes it was, sorry) how else would I have felt looking at this. All of you please feel free to say what exactly you would have said if that match had just got over half an hour back, Honestly tell please, even if it is repulsive. And I am accused of self loathing ? don't I want my team to win ? and in order to be the ideal indian cricket fan, or take it sportingly, you say we have to switch off the tv and go to a concert ? I am afraid I cannot. ( once more sorry for the language but I have to do this even thinking about those moments 13years back ). Fck u all bstrds for cheating Indian fans that day...Fck u :angry_smile::angry_smile::angry_smile::thumbs_down::thumbs_down:

[The Outsider]

BCCI did NOTHING.

Weren't Prabhakar and Mongia suspended for a few games?

[coffee_rules]

Weren't Prabhakar and Mongia suspended for a few games?

Yes, even I recall, both were reprimanded by BCCI/selectors and dropped for some matches. It was also brought when Prabhakar was investigated for match-fixing.

[yoda]

We are the viewing public' date=' not any different than viewing movies. If the movie is bad, you will not get your money back. If you complain to the makerts, they will ask you to not go to the movies.[/quote'] we are not talking about asking for a money back after one bad movie. we are talking about the BCCI as a cricket producing body being answerable to it's customers - namely it's fans. like in any industry, every company is answerable and responsible to it's consumers/customers. so a fan who is a consumer has every right to express his disappointment (like we all do) and the BCCI like any company does and should take fan feedback into account. a good website to take fan feedback would be a good start. what you are talking about is the old-time indian customer service mentality - take it or leave it/fack off.

[beetle]

You are still upset about something that happened in 1994....?:whatchutalkingabout You need to let go.... If you keep collecting memories of disappointments like this...you will just end up with a pile of those..... As for that match....I didn't watch it....but I tell you something...There is a reason why not many cricket fans have a high opinion of those two.That is the reward they get for their kind of cricket...no respect from people.i think that is punishment enough. I don't think we still have the right to throw bottles(forget about bombs) on the players.

[The Outsider]

so a fan who is a consumer has every right to express his disappointment (like we all do) and the BCCI like any company does and should take fan feedback into account. a good website to take fan feedback would be a good start.

On that I agree with, but by supply-demand economics, it seems the majority of the fans are happy with the BCCI and the team.