T420 Champions: India

[yoda]

On that I agree with' date=' but by supply-demand economics, it seems the majority of the fans are happy with the side.[/quote'] not necessarily. we have a monopoly which thwarts competition and the product has become (for some reason) an essential commodity.

[coffee_rules]

we are not talking about asking for a money back after one bad movie. we are talking about the BCCI as a cricket producing body being answerable to it's customers - namely it's fans. like in any industry, every company is answerable and responsible to it's consumers/customers. so a fan who is a consumer has every right to express his disappointment (like we all do) and the BCCI like any company does and should take fan feedback into account. a good website to take fan feedback would be a good start. what you are talking about is the old-time indian customer service mentality - take it or leave it/fack off.

Yes, fans are like consumers. If they buy a product (Indian cricket) and they don't like it, they can complain to the company (BCCI). Unless a large amount of consumers complain, the company (BCCI) can or need not care for some stuck-up consumers who didn't like their product. But still the employees (players) of the company need not care what the consumers feel about the product. They are answerable to the company mgmt only.

[Guest HariSampath]

Weren't Prabhakar and Mongia suspended for a few games?

Theywere not even dropped for the next game... see the stats So if that game had happened, how would everyone feel today ? There is a fine line between openly deliberately not rying to win a game like that one, and SO MANY other games subtly, with the docus being a few players thinking saying " ok, lets just get 2-3 fifties today or 1-2 wkts.. team for next tour to be announced.... some contract coming up for renewal with a commercial sponsor and you need to have a 3-4 wkt haul or a 50 or a hundred to boost your rates... so many things are there , having to do nothing with the team having to win..that day. And there is the biggest ugliest thing called match fixing Whatever it is, its all the same, it is some reason other than the team's interest and the individuals interest only. And the players know these things can never be proved in a court of law, and can always be passed off as genuine games to fans. With all the adulation, no one will question or dare to suspect their demigods. And it will all be forgotten in 2 months. We will all turn up to cheer again It is this naive belief they abuse, this is cheating of the first order and goes on ALL the time, and oce in a bluemoon even the most innocent fan sees thru all this. Why shouldn't I cuss, tell me.

[yoda]

Yes, fans are like consumers. If they buy a product (Indian cricket) and they don't like it, they can complain to the company (BCCI). Unless a large amount of consumers complain, the company (BCCI) can or need not care for some stuck-up consumers who didn't like their product. But still the employees (players) of the company need not care what the consumers feel about the product. They are answerable to the company mgmt only.

really? that's not what we are taught or teach at our companies. customer is always right is one of the things we try to imbibe.

[beetle]

Ok...does cursing help in any way...? If it does ...then it works for you... But you have to accept that it doesn't work for many others. But just because they don't curse...they are no less passionate about the game .

[The Outsider]

They were dropped, Hari :

CHANDIGARH, May 10 —”If the Board of Control for Cricket in India had taken the right action after that infamous incident at Kanpur in 1994 then the issue of match-fixing would not have assumed such an alarming proportion today and the vexed issue could have been nipped in the bud,” according to Dr Ravinder Chadha, a one-time national selector and doctor of the Indian team. Dr Chadha was referring to the incident in Kanpur where India, playing the West Indies in the three-nation Wills Cup (the third team in the tournament being New Zealand) on October 30, 1994, scored just 16 runs off the last 43 balls of their innings to lose to the West Indies by 46 runs. It is a different matter that India had more or less assured their place in the final of the tournament with back-to-back wins against the West Indies and New Zealand. In the Kanpur match India were 195 for five, chasing the West Indies total of 257 for six in 50 overs, when Nayan Mongia joined Manoj Prabhakar, who along with Sachin Tendulkar had opened the Indian innings. The two —Manoj and Mongia —instead of looking for quick runs, with India having to score 63 runs for a possible win off 43 balls, were content in picking up the odd single or the two and the asking rate, which was around seven when the fifth Indian wicket had fallen, rose first to eight and then to ten. But the two Indians made no effort to go for the West Indies bowling and were content to just bat along. Manoj Prabhakar ended the match with 102 runs to his name off 154 balls (his second hundred in one-day internationals) while Mongia scored just four off 21 balls as India slumped to a loss without even giving a game fight. Immediately after the match, according to Dr Chadha who was present at Kanpur in his capacity as national selector, Gundappa Vishwanath, who was chairman of the national selection committee, rushed to the Indian dressing room to talk to Manoj Prabhakar and Mongia. “But strangely enough,” according to Dr Chadha,” Manoj took the plea that there was no message from the Indian dressing room to speed up the scoring. Also, Manoj said, Mongia too did not bring any message from the dressing room to speed up the scoring”. At this point Vishwanath told the Indian allrounder that he was too senior a player not to realise that India needed quick runs to make a match of it. This discussion took place in the Indian dressing room in front of all players of the squad. The national selectors who were present at Kanpur then decided to refer the matter to the then board president, Mr Inderjit Singh Bindra, and the secretary, Mr Jagmohan Dalmiya. This decision was taken in the Indian dressing room itself and Vishwanath had a talk with the senior board functionaries. Later, when the selectors met to pick the team for the remaining matches of the series it was decided that both Prabhakar and Mongia would be dropped from the Indian team. Not only that, Mr Rama Subba Rao, the match observer from the International Cricket Council (ICC), decided that the West Indies would not be given the two points for the win but he was over-ruled by the ICC. However, India were penalised two points by the ICC for affecting New Zealand’s prospects in the tournament by not trying for a win. “This was the most appropriate time for the board to take action and conduct a complete enquiry into the reasons why both Prabhakar and Mongia indulged in such a blatant anti-India role. If such an enquiry had been done by the then functionaries of the board then the alleged nexus between the players and the bookies might have been exposed. It was apparent to all present at Kanpur that the two Indian batsmen were not playing to achieve the target,” Dr Chadha maintained. Dr Chadha said Kapil was being “unnecessarily drawn into the controversy of match-fixing as he was not even present at the Kanpur match.” In fact , Dr Chadha was of the opinion that Prabhakar should first clear his doings in the Kanpur match before he pointed fingers at Kapil Dev for allegedly offering him money to play below par in the one-day tournament in Sri Lanka. The former Haryana captain under whose leadership Kapil has played a lot of first class matches in the formative years of his career demanded that the BCCI and the CBI should also probe the happenings of the Kanpur match.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/20000511/sports.htm Also, the scorecards from the next two matches : http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/66002.html http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/66003.html

[Guest HariSampath]

You are still upset about something that happened in 1994....?:whatchutalkingabout You need to let go.... If you keep collecting memories of disappointments like this...you will just end up with a pile of those..... As for that match....I didn't watch it....but I tell you something...There is a reason why not many cricket fans have a high opinion of those two.That is the reward they get for their kind of cricket...no respect from people.i think that is punishment enough. I don't think we still have the right to throw bottles(forget about bombs) on the players.

Rads.... it is not just those 2 on that day. That was an extreme example of what is a routine practice in the Indian cricket team in much lesser versions, but happens ALL the time, has been happening for more than 15 years. That is why I say that "we" ( those who want can exclude themselves) are suckers , fools idiots,to be taken in by this circus, and that too when we sqeak thru one odd game which is smthing the team does to retain minimum credibility. That is why I say we as a nation are happy to accept one set of players, adore them put them on pedestals, and look away when we know in our hearsts theyare an inferior product, and it is a monopoly, and that too wth no accountability. That is why I say, we all know what is happening, but turn a Nelson's eye to it, or to put it simply we pretend and believe this set of players play for winning and fans need to TOTALLY stop questioning their efforts or motives ( and then the records so gathered by these players, thousands of runs will be quoted again and again ) and they are the best in the world.. And then when fans like me and some others openly question motives and cuss the team, we are self loathers, pakis, need to go to Aus, and all the rest !!! hmmmmph chakde India

[Aditi]

Ok...does cursing help in any way...? If it does ...then it works for you... But you have to accept that it doesn't work for many others. But just because they don't curse...they are no less passionate about the game .

Two words for this type, rads: Anger Management

[Guest HariSampath]

Lurks... they played the ODI in Vizag on Nov 7th and then all the ODIs after that and the fact is they played for India YEARS more. I am not asking how many matches penalty etc... forget it. I am just saying, that the ENTIRE team should have been dropped permanently How can you believe about ANY crap they give as explanation, when everyone knew what was happening ? blocking out 50 overs .... 6 overs 50 to get and they get 7-8 ?? Are we all nuts ? I have with me the CBI enquiry report of 2000 too, in which Mongia says he did not know the number of overs left !!! and then he goes on to say various bizarre things. Dont even bother analysing.... these Sachins, Dravids, Kumbles etc were all part of that team. No instructions ?? kidding ? what instructions they need ? Is anything possible without other members of the team knowing ? there are simply too many things that are very very obvious

[Guest HariSampath]

Ok...does cursing help in any way...? If it does ...then it works for you... But you have to accept that it doesn't work for many others. But just because they don't curse...they are no less passionate about the game .

Answer a straightforward question ; Assume that if in the game against Pakistan in the T20, the finals, India chasing 140 in 20 overs, were 120-5 with 4 overs to go, and then if Yuvaraj and Dhoni had played 4 maiden overs giving the victory to Pakistan, what would you be saying now, if the finals had been today ? why don't you simply post what you would have felt ?

[beetle]

Why bring other names in if those two were responsible...? besides punishing the entire team for the doings of two is hardly fair....

[Lurker]

How can you believe about ANY crap they give as explanation, when everyone knew what was happening ? blocking out 50 overs .... 6 overs 50 to get and they get 7-8 ?? Are we all nuts ? I have with me the CBI enquiry report of 2000 too, in which Mongia says he did not know the number of overs left !!! and then he goes on to say various bizarre things.

Maybe there is more to it than cricket Hari. Maybe it is a social malaise. We just dont care enough or worse we find ourselves so helpless that we assume that we have absolutely no power over how our country, our cricket team etc is run? xx

[beetle]

Answer a straightforward question ; Assume that if in the game against Pakistan in the T20, the finals, India chasing 140 in 20 overs, were 120-5 with 4 overs to go, and then if Yuvaraj and Dhoni had played 4 maiden overs giving the victory to Pakistan, what would you be saying now, if the finals had been today ? why don't you simply post what you would have felt ?

And why on earth would they have done that.....? c'mon man...now you are upset about make believe situations.....We won it...none of the players did what you feared they would.....

[coffee_rules]

Lurks... they played the ODI in Vizag on Nov 7th and then all the ODIs after that and the fact is they played for India YEARS more. I am not asking how many matches penalty etc... forget it. I am just saying, that the ENTIRE team should have been dropped permanently

It has been proved and reported they were dropped, That loss didn;t hurt the series. India had won the 2 matches in the series already. They had already qualified for the finals. They let WI win the match. Now WI had to win the last match against NZ and they did so. Finals was won by India. If the ENTIRE team had been dropped, India couldn't have won the final match. I am glad the selectors and BCCI are not so trigger happy.

[Guest HariSampath]

Why bring other names in if those two were responsible...? besides punishing the entire team for the doings of two is hardly fair....

Rads, those 2 did it openly. ALL do it less openly, see an earlier post of mine. We cannot prove it in a court of law, but it is happening all the time. Everyone does it. It is not possible for just 2 members to act alone. Cricket is a team sport. Everyone will be involved, it is the degree of what is seen publicly. That day it was those 2 openly, there had been hundreds of internationals when the whole natio will be wondering what the heck is X or Y doing, but he will play calmly to get a 50 or 80 or 100, and India will lose Remember the WC 2007, and ganguly playing an absolutely atrocious inngs. Dravid sent Dinesh Karthk the 12th man with mesages 10 timses in one inngs to Ganguly to start hitting, he never did. India lost to SL and out of the WC Not just Ganguly that was just one ex... but all of them time and again. This is what Greg Chappell had said " senior players are playing for different reasons"..." no commitment to team".... " senior players mafia"... etc... he spilled it all in the report but BCCI suppressed the report and fired Chappell

[Guest HariSampath]

And why on earth would they have done that.....? c'mon man...now you are upset about make believe situations.....We won it...none of the players did what you feared they would.....

I said just tell IF it had happened, purely hypothetical, again just to see how you would feel if players simply did not try to win a match

[Guest HariSampath]

Again, its easy to be believing and say I am making it up, but facts remain. India has thrown several matches in many many series purely for the sake of hard cash from bookies, for illegal betting. It has all been out and in the open There is no denying this fact. Proving it may require different levels of proof for different persons. But anyone with strong commonsense can see what is happening. The pattern is there, if you choose to seeit.

[beetle]

hmmm...I hope to never see it Hari.... You are giving me heart burn with all this talk...:DI will have to put you on my ignore list.:P

[yoda]

Rads, those 2 did it openly. ALL do it less openly, see an earlier post of mine. We cannot prove it in a court of law, but it is happening all the time. Everyone does it.

Everyone does everything everytime. Anyone is capable of doing anything anytime. Absurd generalizations, are they not? Serious allegations require serious proof against each person alleged.

[DravidDaBest]

Rads, those 2 did it openly. ALL do it less openly, see an earlier post of mine. We cannot prove it in a court of law, but it is happening all the time. Everyone does it. It is not possible for just 2 members to act alone. Cricket is a team sport. Everyone will be involved, it is the degree of what is seen publicly. That day it was those 2 openly, there had been hundreds of internationals when the whole natio will be wondering what the heck is X or Y doing, but he will play calmly to get a 50 or 80 or 100, and India will lose Remember the WC 2007, and ganguly playing an absolutely atrocious inngs. Dravid sent Dinesh Karthk the 12th man with mesages 10 timses in one inngs to Ganguly to start hitting, he never did. India lost to SL and out of the WC Not just Ganguly that was just one ex... but all of them time and again. This is what Greg Chappell had said " senior players are playing for different reasons"..." no commitment to team".... " senior players mafia"... etc... he spilled it all in the report but BCCI suppressed the report and fired Chappell

Dude..Don't you think you read too much from that one fiasco? Since you're asking about hypothetical scenarios, let me ask you this one..........Are you giving 100% commitment and effort in all the things you do in life ?